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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Does Mario need to be so kiddy?

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It's true. 42 36.52%
 
It's not so true. 71 61.74%
 
Total:113
happydolphin on 21 August 2012
Mandalore76 said:
happydolphin said:

I also feel like something is forced nowadays. I don't feel the same freedom I had when I used to play Mario, I'm forced to swallow a kid pill everytime I play. I never have to swallow that pill when I watch Disney movies, or play great NES games.

I don't think that people who grew up playing Mario in the 80's stop and think about the fact that there is a new generation of young kids growing up today that have a right to play and enjoy Mario games as well.  If you feel like you have to swallow a kid pill to play new Mario games today, perhaps the answer is that in your case, you have outgrown Mario.  (I grew up in the 80's as well, but I on the other hand enjoy playing Mario Galaxy and Mario 3D Land.)  Does that mean, because you or someone who feels as you do have outgrown Mario, that today's kids should be denied the right to play the types of games that our generation grew up playing?  I drove home this past Halloween and saw quite a few children dressed as Mario, and I realized that he is as huge with kids today as ever.  Why should Nintendo stop making games that appeal to this demographic?   Nintendo hasn't forgotten you, it is remembering the demographic you used to be a part of when you first played Mario.

True, but the direction I'm looking for is one that is catering to both kids and adults, not one exclusively to the other, as emphasized in OP.

Of course I'm not saying I don't want Mario to be for kids, but are you telling me that the Disney classics are less loved by kids because they are also enjoyed by adults, who don't need to swallow a kid pill to watch them? I think that's the core of this thread.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed playing these excellent games, but I'm asking for excellence in all fronts, not just the ones Mario already nails.



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happydolphin on 21 August 2012
Mandalore76 said:
happydolphin said:
osed125 said:

Mario games don't need a story IMO (except the RPGs of course), but with the popularity of the newer Mario games Nintendo is afraid of changing the formula, so I don't think we'll see big changes in the New Super Mario series anytime soon

What about the struggling sales (relatively of course) of NSMB2? Could that trigger an alarm?

How is NSMB2 struggling in sales?  It has been in the Top 3 in Global Software Sales in each of the three weeks since it released, including #1 for two of those three weeks.  It's at 3/4 of a million in sales in less than a month, and that's just one territory of sales since it just released in NA on the 19th.  At 780,000 units, it has already outsold every game on Vita, and is already 12th best selling on 3DS (once the NA #'s come in, it will cruise into the top ten on the system if not top 5 right away.)  So, define struggling sales please.

Oh, I was talking relatively to the NSMB series as a whole, not in contrast to other usual SW sales trends in the industry, sorry if I was unclear there.

@Mr. Khan. Sorry, I just read your request. Will comply.

@Trucks-jamesearljones. Very funny :3



happydolphin on 21 August 2012
nuckles87 said:
Yes.

Mario has always been "kiddy" and always should be. That's his world. Cartoony, candy coated and brightly colored. The only reason why past games had more muted colors was because of the limitations of the technology. If you look at concept art from the time, Mario has always been a very colorful, cartoony world.

As a Sonic fan, I can say from experience that you should be happy that Mario has never "grown up". Sonic tried it. It was a disaster. Killed an entire franchise with just two games. Frankly, I've never been able to look at Sonic quite the same way again.

I'd say Mario's issue isn't that it's "kiddy". It's that the art style is bland and boring, and Nintendo has been doing its best to keep it that way. I don't want to ever see a more mature Mario. That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing a Mario that tried something different in the visuals department, ala Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island.

Which, by the way, used the FX trip to produce some marvelously beautiful "kiddy" visuals:

http://i2.listal.com/image/239305/600full-super-mario-world-2%3A-yoshi%27s-island-screenshot.jpg

@bold. I'd like you to offer examples please.

@grown up killing the franchise. I'm looking for excellence, i.e. the ability to appeal to both children and adults at once. It's difficult but Nintendo should be able to pull it off, after all they are the sales leaders of the industry. However it is my opinion that Sony has been doing a better job in this department, despite the difficulty of branding a new IP to a platform which targets an older audience.

@bland. Well, that's what I mean, it's not appealing to adults because it feels lazy from an artistic point of view. That's exactly what I'm talking about see my convo with Nintendopie.

Yoshi's Island screams of creativity, and so just for that effort I wouldn't call it kiddy. Of course if the themes were too unbalanced in certain colors that only appeal to kids it would eskew the verdict but in the end the kiddiness was tamed and the creativity was all but unnoticeable. Good example.



theRepublic on 21 August 2012
Alby_da_Wolf said:
theRepublic said:
TruckOSaurus said:
happydolphin said:

As for the freedom offered by stronger consoles, I don't see the N64 version emasculating Mario like the newer incarnations does.

Emasculating Mario?!? What the hell are your smoking? Mario's voice was high-pitched from the get-go (in Mario 64) and it hasn't changed much since. Next thing you're going to tell me Bee Mario is emasculating because we usually think of bees as female or that Cloud Mario is kiddy because people like to use clouds to decorate kids rooms?

I read that and thought pretty much the same thing.  Mario was never really super masculine to begin with, and nothing in any of the newer games strikes me as emasculating.

Did you ever play the first arcade Donkey Kong and Mario games? Mario was without any doubt more masculine than now.

Yes, on the Atari 2600 all the time.  Mario was not masculine then either.  Here is the arcade flyer from the time:

It is as cartoony as Mario is now.



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Alby_da_Wolf on 21 August 2012
theRepublic said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
theRepublic said:
TruckOSaurus said:
happydolphin said:

As for the freedom offered by stronger consoles, I don't see the N64 version emasculating Mario like the newer incarnations does.

Emasculating Mario?!? What the hell are your smoking? Mario's voice was high-pitched from the get-go (in Mario 64) and it hasn't changed much since. Next thing you're going to tell me Bee Mario is emasculating because we usually think of bees as female or that Cloud Mario is kiddy because people like to use clouds to decorate kids rooms?

I read that and thought pretty much the same thing.  Mario was never really super masculine to begin with, and nothing in any of the newer games strikes me as emasculating.

Did you ever play the first arcade Donkey Kong and Mario games? Mario was without any doubt more masculine than now.

Yes, on the Atari 2600 all the time.  Mario was not masculine then either.  Here is the arcade flyer from the time:

It is as cartoony as Mario is now.

Box art was undeniably as cartoony as now, but in-game graphics? Well, we could even define "cartoony" DK1 graphics too, but in-game graphics of Mario himself were more masculine, despite already cartoony, in the first games. Just think about this: the earliest in-game Mario looked quite like Ron Jeremy, the newest Marios don't.   



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


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happydolphin on 21 August 2012
Alby_da_Wolf said:
theRepublic said:

Yes, on the Atari 2600 all the time.  Mario was not masculine then either.  Here is the arcade flyer from the time:

It is as cartoony as Mario is now.

Box art was undeniably as cartoony as now, but in-game graphics? Well, we could even define "cartoony" DK1 graphics too, but in-bame graphics of Mario himself were more masculine, despite already cartoony, in the first games. Just think about this: the earliest in-game Mario looked quite like Ron Jeremy, the newest Marios don't.   

There's definitely a different emotion depicted in this marketing art than what we have now. Not that this is what I'd want, but I wouldn't say this is like what we have today. The colors are less vibrant, and the characters seem upset (an emotion we never see in today's Mario).



theRepublic on 21 August 2012
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Box art was undeniably as cartoony as now, but in-game graphics? Well, we could even define "cartoony" DK1 graphics too, but in-game graphics of Mario himself were more masculine, despite already cartoony, in the first games. Just think about this: the earliest in-game Mario looked quite like Ron Jeremy, the newest Marios don't.   

Mario has not changed much at all.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
Switch - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (2019)
Switch - Bastion (2011/2018)
3DS - Star Fox 64 3D (2011)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Wii U - Darksiders: Warmastered Edition (2010/2017)
Mobile - The Simpson's Tapped Out and Yugioh Duel Links
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)

Alby_da_Wolf on 21 August 2012
happydolphin said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
theRepublic said:

Yes, on the Atari 2600 all the time.  Mario was not masculine then either.  Here is the arcade flyer from the time:

It is as cartoony as Mario is now.

Box art was undeniably as cartoony as now, but in-game graphics? Well, we could even define "cartoony" DK1 graphics too, but in-bame graphics of Mario himself were more masculine, despite already cartoony, in the first games. Just think about this: the earliest in-game Mario looked quite like Ron Jeremy, the newest Marios don't.   

There's definitely a different emotion depicted in this marketing art than what we have now. Not that this is what I'd want, but I wouldn't say this is like what we have today. The colors are less vibrant, and the characters seem upset (an emotion we never see in today's Mario).

Yep, it was cartoony, but more adult. We could compare old and new Mario to Popeye made by Segar and Felix the Cat by Sullivan and those very childish after their respective authors' deaths.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


Alby_da_Wolf on 21 August 2012
theRepublic said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Box art was undeniably as cartoony as now, but in-game graphics? Well, we could even define "cartoony" DK1 graphics too, but in-game graphics of Mario himself were more masculine, despite already cartoony, in the first games. Just think about this: the earliest in-game Mario looked quite like Ron Jeremy, the newest Marios don't.   

Mario has not changed much at all.

 

The first Mario, as he was in the earliest games. third from left, upper row: he was very different. I agree that successive ones are more similar to each other, but anyway he noticeably changed since they started drawing the iris of his eyes.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


shakarak on 21 August 2012

The paper mario games had an all age appeal. There was alot of wit in those games, that would only appeal to most adults.