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Forums - General - Mating Turtles Fossilized

happydolphin said:
Porcupine_I said:

but that's the point! they need to look at all scentific data and not pick out a event that might support their cause in some arbitrary way.

I won't argue this because I need to follow my own OP here. We could continue this on my wall if you like.

killed instantly by the biblical flood? how is that supposed to work? it's not like turtles are afraid of water or would drown instantly even while mating.

That's the fascinating part of the find, is that they were alive (mating) when they were fossilized, and the fossil actually preserved their position when the fossilisation happened. This leads to two ideas:

1) The fossilization was quick.

2) The fossilization didn't require them to slowly die as is the usual case.

 i know they are slow animals but that slow that raising waters through a long rain would drown them while mating? that doesn't make sense to me. even if it was explained with a instant floodwave, would they have stuck together like this while being washed away? and all of them washed to the same spot?

That's the thing. The flood is more than just water. It is volcanic and seismic activity (the bible talks about the earth burst open like floodgates), and it's high-pressure + all kinds of mud and earth mixed together. In some areas of the globe, that would involve areas being quickly buried through catastrophic physics (like those seen in volcano eruptions: high pressure, steam, volcanic deposits).

So, it's water accumulating in some cases, in others its almost like covering creatures in cement.

anyway, for example: 25 years ago, 1700 people and 3500 livestsock, and maybe even some turtles instantly suffocated at lake nyos when a sudden CO² cloud was realesed. knowing that such things can happen even today tells me that they have not even considered to look at other solutions for the dead mating turteles, but just jumped to their own ridiculous conclusion.

No, it's just the beginning. Also the scientific article I provided seemed to assert that the posioned lake was the factual account when the creation article or the natgeo article (can't remember which) mentioned issues with the poisoned lake hypothesis. I'm just saying that in all ends of the issue that attitude exists, try not to see it so one-ended.

You already gave yourself the answer to this "mystery" i marked it for you. Why shoehorn the biblical flood into it when volcanic eruption it is a natural ocurrance that happened at any time in earths history until today.



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

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Porcupine_I said:

You already gave yourself the answer to this "mystery" i marked it for you. Why shoehorn the biblical flood into it when volcanic eruption it is a natural ocurrance that happened at any time in earths history until today.

Yeah, that's a fair viewpoint too. I was just compounding statis plus the global flood theory to this story because the turtles were mating and they look like common turtles.

I guess it's possible they came from a recent local flood+seismic+volcanic catastrophy too, but one thing is certain is that it defies the usual assumption that fossilization is slow and occurs over a large period of time in an age dating many eras ago. But if you agree that a local recent flood catastrophy is also a possibility then we aren't at odds. The global flood is one possible explanation similar to yours, only that it's global. That kind of goes hand in hand with other accounts like fish eating other fish in a fossil and such, but I guess that could have been another local flood+seismic+volcanic catastrophe in another area.

That's the thing though, what are the odds of having a flood and a seism and a volcano happening at once in an area where both occur and affect each other at once. For example, an earthquake can cause a tsunami, but what are the odds of a tsunami and a volcano meeting up to create steem and large blotches of cement able to capture mating or eating creatures? That's kind of the question.



happydolphin said:
Porcupine_I said:

You already gave yourself the answer to this "mystery" i marked it for you. Why shoehorn the biblical flood into it when volcanic eruption it is a natural ocurrance that happened at any time in earths history until today.

Yeah, that's a fair viewpoint too. I was just compounding statis plus the global flood theory to this story because the turtles were mating and they look like common turtles.

I guess it's possible they came from a recent local flood+seismic+volcanic catastrophy too, but one thing is certain is that it defies the usual assumption that fossilization is slow and occurs over a large period of time in an age dating many eras ago. But if you agree that a local recent flood catastrophy is also a possibility then we aren't at odds. The global flood is one possible explanation similar to yours, only that it's global. That kind of goes hand in hand with other accounts like fish eating other fish in a fossil and such, but I guess that could have been another local flood+seismic+volcanic catastrophe in another area.

That's the thing though, what are the odds of having a flood and a seism and a volcano happening at once in an area where both occur and affect each other at once. For example, an earthquake can cause a tsunami, but what are the odds of a tsunami and a volcano meeting up to create steem and large blotches of cement able to capture mating or eating creatures? That's kind of the question.

actually i do have the perfect explanation. they were buried in a mudslide dureing mating season. these happen when volcanic eruptions occur near lakes or other water sources. if the lake was on top of a volcanic activity it also supports the part about the instant suffocating that i mentioned earlier because the water would saturate with CO² which would be relased suddenly if the water was disturbed. agsin, see lake nyos, or the toxic mud lake desaster in indonesia.

besides, i think you are misinterpreting a few terms here. fossilisation does happen slowly and over long times. these turtles were hardly fossilized, they were in the process of fossilisation. and for them to stay in the mating position does not require them to instantly fossilize, it only requires them to instantly die, everything that comes after that can take it's time.



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

superchunk said:
lol I don't see how this find of a bunch of dead mating turtles in any way is for or against evolution. That's just stupid. (yes I read the article)

Of course there was some event that killed a bunch of them at the same time and it must have been mating season. But to use this to prove/disprove any theories is just dumb fanboy-like behavior.

lol at this having anything to do with any biblical story lol (I am Muslim and do think a large flood of some type happened at some point).


it would seem that the author believes the only "rapid event" that could explain this is noah's flood.  seems odd to me because last time i read the bible it rained for 40 days and 40 nights.  that's some fucking fantastic stamina ancient turtles apperantly had...



happydolphin said:
Panama said:
Look what Jesus did! Look what Jesus did! Look what Jesus did!

? Can't you guys contribute anything to the topic?

It's a quote from the movie, "Ted".

And yeah, it adds nothing.  Then again, neither will my comment.

 

Turtle orgy suicide cult?



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@d21. No it helps

Porcupine_I said:
happydolphin said:
Porcupine_I said:

You already gave yourself the answer to this "mystery" i marked it for you. Why shoehorn the biblical flood into it when volcanic eruption it is a natural ocurrance that happened at any time in earths history until today.

Yeah, that's a fair viewpoint too. I was just compounding statis plus the global flood theory to this story because the turtles were mating and they look like common turtles.

I guess it's possible they came from a recent local flood+seismic+volcanic catastrophy too, but one thing is certain is that it defies the usual assumption that fossilization is slow and occurs over a large period of time in an age dating many eras ago. But if you agree that a local recent flood catastrophy is also a possibility then we aren't at odds. The global flood is one possible explanation similar to yours, only that it's global. That kind of goes hand in hand with other accounts like fish eating other fish in a fossil and such, but I guess that could have been another local flood+seismic+volcanic catastrophe in another area.

That's the thing though, what are the odds of having a flood and a seism and a volcano happening at once in an area where both occur and affect each other at once. For example, an earthquake can cause a tsunami, but what are the odds of a tsunami and a volcano meeting up to create steem and large blotches of cement able to capture mating or eating creatures? That's kind of the question.

actually i do have the perfect explanation. they were buried in a mudslide dureing mating season. these happen when volcanic eruptions occur near lakes or other water sources. if the lake was on top of a volcanic activity it also supports the part about the instant suffocating that i mentioned earlier because the water would saturate with CO² which would be relased suddenly if the water was disturbed. agsin, see lake nyos, or the toxic mud lake desaster in indonesia.

besides, i think you are misinterpreting a few terms here. fossilisation does happen slowly and over long times. these turtles were hardly fossilized, they were in the process of fossilisation. and for them to stay in the mating position does not require them to instantly fossilize, it only requires them to instantly die, everything that comes after that can take it's time.

Yeah, that's a good explanation. This doesn't need to be a war we give our PoVs and let each other think, ie a "nobody is stupid nobody is dumb" mindset.

I heard that there was a way to obtain a fossil fairly quickly depending on the makeup of what swallowed the creature. That would explain why for example the fresh dinosaur bones we found still had fresh blood, since the fossilization was quick. I'm not sure the fossilization itself happened over a long period of time because I'd be surprised if a simple mud slide could keep the two creatures in the same position for very long, especially since a mud slide is moving. I would expect it to have fossilized quickly to ensure they stay in place. I may be wrong.