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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why is 'milking' considered inherently bad amongst gamers?

Because people like to talk thrash about products that thrive that they in most cases don't like.

In some instances it's a justifieable term though.

Don't really see the problem with most games though, Halo, Mario, Ratchet & Clank are all "milked", yet they're consistently among the best in the business.



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Maybe its because its bad when its a great series that someone doesnt like...to which I say tuff luck.

If the quality is consistent, then milk away. We aint getting any younger.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

I dont mind either, but quality is so subjective, one can argue that GH and RB games were still quality and looked were that turned out. IMHO i just have a fear that even though those games remain "good" in the real world people will get bored and then we have a TH or GH situation where they just flat out stop making those games. BUT this is few and far inbetween as the ones who maintained quality stick around. Hell we're getting a TH HD collection this year. So even some old timers could rise from the grave



oniyide said:
I dont mind either, but quality is so subjective, one can argue that GH and RB games were still quality and looked were that turned out. IMHO i just have a fear that even though those games remain "good" in the real world people will get bored and then we have a TH or GH situation where they just flat out stop making those games. BUT this is few and far inbetween as the ones who maintained quality stick around. Hell we're getting a TH HD collection this year. So even some old timers could rise from the grave


The whole rhythm gaming market got killed in general though.  I know this because I am a part of a rhtyhm gaming community, and around the same time GH (I'm guessing is Guitar Hero?) died, the community started to wither away as well.



It's bad 'cause all those Mario games are making people buy less games that I like more.



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MDMAlliance said:
oniyide said:
I dont mind either, but quality is so subjective, one can argue that GH and RB games were still quality and looked were that turned out. IMHO i just have a fear that even though those games remain "good" in the real world people will get bored and then we have a TH or GH situation where they just flat out stop making those games. BUT this is few and far inbetween as the ones who maintained quality stick around. Hell we're getting a TH HD collection this year. So even some old timers could rise from the grave


The whole rhythm gaming market got killed in general though.  I know this because I am a part of a rhtyhm gaming community, and around the same time GH (I'm guessing is Guitar Hero?) died, the community started to wither away as well.

and why do you think that is?? Probably too much releases, which is my point. It could kill of a series or even a whole genre. there is a thing as oversaturation. BUt Acti did go over board with the Van Halens, Metallicas, Band, DJ you get the point



When a series becomes a cash-grab, it's not well seen in the industry where innovation, creativity and depth are most sought after.

When a game is part of a long-time series, and you get the feel that little time was spent polishing the game and adding depth, it makes that sentiment even worse than if it were a new IP, because of the shadow of doubt.

Lastly, milking a franchise comes at the expense of the emergence of new intellectual Properties. As such, it should always be a second priority. Otherwise, the market loses its relevance and appeal imho.

As much as I'm loving NSMB now, after giving the Wii version a shot, I'm looking forward to NSMBU. But I do want Nintendo to focus on new experiences first. But since NSMB fuels the development of Nintendo games, I'm okay with it having its place, and at the same time I end up enjoying it so its win-win. But otherwise, that wouldn't be cool unless our expectation is that the game is part of some kind of ongoing season or collection.



oniyide said:
MDMAlliance said:
oniyide said:
I dont mind either, but quality is so subjective, one can argue that GH and RB games were still quality and looked were that turned out. IMHO i just have a fear that even though those games remain "good" in the real world people will get bored and then we have a TH or GH situation where they just flat out stop making those games. BUT this is few and far inbetween as the ones who maintained quality stick around. Hell we're getting a TH HD collection this year. So even some old timers could rise from the grave


The whole rhythm gaming market got killed in general though.  I know this because I am a part of a rhtyhm gaming community, and around the same time GH (I'm guessing is Guitar Hero?) died, the community started to wither away as well.

and why do you think that is?? Probably too much releases, which is my point. It could kill of a series or even a whole genre. there is a thing as oversaturation. BUt Acti did go over board with the Van Halens, Metallicas, Band, DJ you get the point


I think rhythm gaming is an exception, though.  Music isn't something everyone has a talent for.  Not everyone is as passionate about music, and a lot of these milked titles don't involve one thing so specifically.  Such as Mario titles don't focus so much on one aspect of gaming as it does on multiple aspects and a character that some people can never see enough of.  Call of Duty wont kill FPS gaming either, as the FPS gaming model tends to allow multiplayer gaming.  There's much more freedom here.  I'm not sure how well I'm explaining myself, but killing a genre from milking seems to be something that could only be done with something like this.  People still like rhythm games, but it's no longer mainstream.  The dancing thing took its place now (it is a form of rhythm gaming, but it tends to focus much more on dancing than music, which is a form that can die out too if it is used too much).  



Milking can be described as putting forth the least effort possible for the greatest possible gain. Which in the case of game development usually means that a developer is cloning their previous game, and making only enough changes to get away with what they are doing. The time frame is pretty irrelevant as far as the workmanship is concerned, but it does make milking far more obvious to the casual observer. After all when installments are a few years apart it is much easier to miss the duplication. Then if the two games were just a year apart.

Milking is entirely detrimental, and in no way should be condoned. Even by ardent supporters of a game series. For one simple reason. There is a more common usage of the term, but it is keenly in the minds of those that are applying it to a game series. It is a term used to describe abusing the system, or unjustly taking advantage of the system. There are few things that rile people up more then the notion that someone is cheating to get ahead, or even think they can cheat us into getting what they want.

This is fundamentally human psychology. We expect and demand reciprocity of a equal nature. We expect to get the same rewards for the work we put out as another, and we expect the other to work just as hard as we do to get their rewards. Be honest if you go to work, and your coworker fucks around for ninety percent of the time, and still draws the same pay as you for months and years. You really start to hate that person don't you, and even if you understand how fruitless that hate is your still going to have that hatred burning you up inside.

Developers milk properties, because it is both quick and lucrative. They can make a lot of easy cash fast. That has a downside though. In that they generate a lot of ill will directed not only at the series being milked, but at the developer who is doing the milking. Their short term success is usually costing them their good reputation with the people they need to buy their products. It is like slash and burn farming. Sure you get a bumper yield for a few years, but after that you got a wasteland to try and make a living off.

I suppose the irony of it all is the people pointing the finger aren't the problem. They are usually the people who are doing the right thing. Even though it may not feel that way right now. They are demeaning a developer in the hope that the developer will see the error of their ways, and return to the honorable path. The problem is those people that defend a milked series right up until the point that everyone finds in obscene. You really shouldn't defend the indefensible. It is wrong to misuse a franchise, and buying into it is like feeding a addiction that in the end is going to kill the series off altogether. Developers that milk get addicted, and if you let it continue on long enough then it becomes virtually incurable.



MDMAlliance said:
oniyide said:
MDMAlliance said:
oniyide said:
I dont mind either, but quality is so subjective, one can argue that GH and RB games were still quality and looked were that turned out. IMHO i just have a fear that even though those games remain "good" in the real world people will get bored and then we have a TH or GH situation where they just flat out stop making those games. BUT this is few and far inbetween as the ones who maintained quality stick around. Hell we're getting a TH HD collection this year. So even some old timers could rise from the grave


The whole rhythm gaming market got killed in general though.  I know this because I am a part of a rhtyhm gaming community, and around the same time GH (I'm guessing is Guitar Hero?) died, the community started to wither away as well.

and why do you think that is?? Probably too much releases, which is my point. It could kill of a series or even a whole genre. there is a thing as oversaturation. BUt Acti did go over board with the Van Halens, Metallicas, Band, DJ you get the point


I think rhythm gaming is an exception, though.  Music isn't something everyone has a talent for.  Not everyone is as passionate about music, and a lot of these milked titles don't involve one thing so specifically.  Such as Mario titles don't focus so much on one aspect of gaming as it does on multiple aspects and a character that some people can never see enough of.  Call of Duty wont kill FPS gaming either, as the FPS gaming model tends to allow multiplayer gaming.  There's much more freedom here.  I'm not sure how well I'm explaining myself, but killing a genre from milking seems to be something that could only be done with something like this.  People still like rhythm games, but it's no longer mainstream.  The dancing thing took its place now (it is a form of rhythm gaming, but it tends to focus much more on dancing than music, which is a form that can die out too if it is used too much).  

not really buying it, Im asking if you really dont believe that the numerous releases of GH and RB games killed those franchises. Maybe genre was the wrong word to use, as the genre existed before(Parappa) and still exists now(Just Dance, Theatryhtm FF). People didnt get tired of music, thats damn near impossible. THey got tired of having to buy multiple instruments and several different games a year.