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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Blu-Rays may not be big enough for Square-Enix

zarx said:
torok said:


Indeed. But GoW doesn't have CGI (except for some parts, but all arte short). MGS 4 doesn't have it too and I'm pretty sure that Uncharted doesn't have too (or at least have only a few). All that GBs are pure game size...

GoW 3 has a 2.5h HD making of doco on the disc 

as for Uncharted 3 

"There are some "luxuries" in that allocation - 3.24GB of behind-the-scenes movies, 7GB of foreign language audio, and 10GB of 3D movies (pre-rendered cut-scenes are stored both in 2D and 3D versions) but by our reckoning there's at least 16GB of core game data being used in this game"

from digital foundry

 

Also the Blu-Ray drive has long seek times which means devs use a lot of data duplication to minimise load times as well, the technique is used on 360 as well but less so as disc space is at a premium on that side and seek times are slightly better. 


Didn't knew that... They have this data for Killzone too? Simpler games are already using all the space even to include demos (Resistance 3 comes with demos for Infamous 2, Motorstorm Apocalypse, Killzone 3 and Killzone 3 in 3D).



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outlawauron said:
He won't be working with designers as the engine most likely isn't completed nor intended for any of the current consoles (most likely including Wii U as well). I don't see how the two things are separate. By creating the engine, you create input tools to create a world, people in it, and their interactions within it. You can't tailor anything to it without a game in place, and your last comment about 'more detail' is pretty unfounded considering we've only had a single tech demo.

You clearly haven't been following the thread of discussion that I was responding to.

The assertion is that Square Enix shouldn't be having him work on what he's currently working on, when they have much bigger problems. Someone argued that, being an engine developer, there's nothing else they would have him doing, to which I pointed out that there are multiple other things that an engine developer could be doing, that would do better to address Square Enix's problems.



torok said:


Didn't knew that... They have this data for Killzone too? Simpler games are already using all the space even to include demos (Resistance 3 comes with demos for Infamous 2, Motorstorm Apocalypse, Killzone 3 and Killzone 3 in 3D).


"The 41.5GB Blu-ray: Why?

Killzone 2 weighed in at around 13GB of data pressed on the Blu-ray, while a quick look at the disc structure of the new game confirms that the sequel consists of over 41.5GB of data: a monumental increase in the amount of shipped data that has necessitated a switch to a dual-layer disc. The major contributory factor to the increase is the shift from engine-driven cinematics to video data streamed directly from the Blu-ray.

Guerrilla has opted to create a seamless "zero loading" experience using a similar technique to that seen in the Uncharted games and God of War III. Video sequences are streamed from the disc while game data for the next level loads in the background. By the time the cinematic storytelling is complete, the game has already spooled in all the data required to kick off gameplay on the next level. As long as you don't skip the cut-scenes, Killzone 3 has no visible loading whatsoever.

There are over 32GB of video sequences stored on the Blu-ray disc, with game data accounting for around 9GB, all powered by a 20MB executable. Interestingly, despite having the option of using Sony's own h264-based PAMF video tech for the cinematics, Guerrilla has opted instead to use Bink - an ancient video codec with often questionable image quality that requires large amounts of bandwidth to achieve acceptable quality."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-killzone-3?page=2



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haxxiy said:
Don't top line blu-rays manage to store even more than 50GB?

Yes they do. BR has the capability to store lot more than 50 GB. Triple layer discs (100 GB) and quadruple layers (128 GB) are widely available. Beyond this, they also have developed 200 GB Blu-Ray disks on one side, which has 6 layers at 33 GB's a piece. They are already past 10 layers. Square Enix has zero chance to run out of space for their video game from a single sided Blu-Ray disk. They'd like to think that they can, but they are a joke and like to hype their work quality. They can keep dreaming. I am not sure how high the developemental capacity is though right now for the highest storage BR disk. I believe a 500 GB BR disk exists, which was a Pioneer creation.



Pesmerga7551 said:
haxxiy said:
Don't top line blu-rays manage to store even more than 50GB?

Yes they do. BR has the capability to store lot more than 50 GB. Triple layer discs (100 GB) and quadruple layers (128 GB) are widely available. Beyond this, they also have developed 200 GB Blu-Ray disks on one side, which has 6 layers at 33 GB's a piece. They are already past 10 layers. Square Enix has zero chance to run out of space for their video game from a single sided Blu-Ray disk. They'd like to think that they can, but they are a joke and like to hype their work quality. They can keep dreaming. I am not sure how high the developemental capacity is though right now for the highest storage BR disk. I believe a 500 GB BR disk exists, which was a Pioneer creation.


What you failed to note was that the PS3, at this point in time, cannot actually read anything more than dual-layer.



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Aielyn said:
Pesmerga7551 said:
haxxiy said:
Don't top line blu-rays manage to store even more than 50GB?

Yes they do. BR has the capability to store lot more than 50 GB. Triple layer discs (100 GB) and quadruple layers (128 GB) are widely available. Beyond this, they also have developed 200 GB Blu-Ray disks on one side, which has 6 layers at 33 GB's a piece. They are already past 10 layers. Square Enix has zero chance to run out of space for their video game from a single sided Blu-Ray disk. They'd like to think that they can, but they are a joke and like to hype their work quality. They can keep dreaming. I am not sure how high the developemental capacity is though right now for the highest storage BR disk. I believe a 500 GB BR disk exists, which was a Pioneer creation.


What you failed to note was that the PS3, at this point in time, cannot actually read anything more than dual-layer.


With firmware it can read more than 2 layers, however nothing right now actually uses these disks so it hasn't been done. Also there are Blu-Ray disks with a standard capacity of 33.4 GB's per layer, which the PS3 already can read due to firmware update. So the PS3 as it sits with the latest firmware supports a 66.8 GB Blu-Ray disk. Not enough for Square? Yea right. If Sony even gets a whiff that someone wants to release a 2 disk game, a new firmware update will come out to support more. Problem is with these disks to why they aren't used, they are EXPENSIVE and it's that simple.



Pesmerga7551 said:
With firmware it can read more than 2 layers, however nothing right now actually uses these disks so it hasn't been done. Also there are Blu-Ray disks with a standard capacity of 33.4 GB's per layer, which the PS3 already can read due to firmware update. So the PS3 as it sits with the latest firmware supports a 66.8 GB Blu-Ray disk. Not enough for Square? Yea right. If Sony even gets a whiff that someone wants to release a 2 disk game, a new firmware update will come out to support more. Problem is with these disks to why they aren't used, they are EXPENSIVE and it's that simple.

The problem with requiring a firmware update is that you can't update the firmware via the disc, because the disc can't be read. So while those who have their systems connected to the net are fine, those whose PS3 remains offline cannot get the firmware update.

Keep in mind that I said nothing about this in my last post for a reason, though - I was simply pointing out that, in discussing it, all the information should be presented. Yes, there are BluRay discs that go bigger than 50 GB. But most BluRay drives, including the ones in a PS3, cannot currently read those discs, and that's a relevant fact. Once you acknowledge all of the facts, opinions on whether it's feasible or not becomes fair.

People often say "there's no such thing as a wrong opinion", but it's false. Opinions based on wrong or incomplete facts can very much be wrong.



Aielyn said:
Pesmerga7551 said:
With firmware it can read more than 2 layers, however nothing right now actually uses these disks so it hasn't been done. Also there are Blu-Ray disks with a standard capacity of 33.4 GB's per layer, which the PS3 already can read due to firmware update. So the PS3 as it sits with the latest firmware supports a 66.8 GB Blu-Ray disk. Not enough for Square? Yea right. If Sony even gets a whiff that someone wants to release a 2 disk game, a new firmware update will come out to support more. Problem is with these disks to why they aren't used, they are EXPENSIVE and it's that simple.

The problem with requiring a firmware update is that you can't update the firmware via the disc, because the disc can't be read. So while those who have their systems connected to the net are fine, those whose PS3 remains offline cannot get the firmware update.

Keep in mind that I said nothing about this in my last post for a reason, though - I was simply pointing out that, in discussing it, all the information should be presented. Yes, there are BluRay discs that go bigger than 50 GB. But most BluRay drives, including the ones in a PS3, cannot currently read those discs, and that's a relevant fact. Once you acknowledge all of the facts, opinions on whether it's feasible or not becomes fair.

People often say "there's no such thing as a wrong opinion", but it's false. Opinions based on wrong or incomplete facts can very much be wrong.


But the topic is about next gen games not the PS3...



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zarx said:

But the topic is about next gen games not the PS3...

Actually, the topic is about games made by Square Enix, and the fact that Square Enix want more than is currently possible on any of the current systems using just one disc. Some are talking about what happens next gen, but not everyone. If you look, the person I was responding to was also talking about PS3.



Aielyn said:
zarx said:

But the topic is about next gen games not the PS3...

Actually, the topic is about games made by Square Enix, and the fact that Square Enix want more than is currently possible on any of the current systems using just one disc. Some are talking about what happens next gen, but not everyone. If you look, the person I was responding to was also talking about PS3.

If you read the source he is talking about games using the Luminous engine using CGI quality assets in game that is not possible on PS3...

If you trace the quote chain back you will find you are the person who brought the PS3 into the conversation.



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