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Forums - General Discussion - Allow me to Defend every Criminal out there

IIIIITHE1IIIII on 25 June 2012
Slimebeast said:

Then just forget that I used the term "pre-determined" if that makes it easier for you. Just swap it to "lack of free will", because that was my point.

The point is that you took a narrow but popular field (the ethics of crime) where your conclusion has far wider implications (that morals don't exist).


So I guess this is your point: "morals simply cease to exist, from which follows that you should not just feel sorry for criminals, you should feel sorry for everybody, and never condemn anybody for anything."

I'm not sure why you should feel sorry for people who manage to enjoy life (as long as it doesn't result in others suffering), so I don't see where you are going with this.

Morals were invented by humans, happiness and sadness were not.



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IIIIITHE1IIIII on 25 June 2012
Slimebeast said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Do you mean violently punish him? That doesn't make much sense. You cannot punish someone for having bad parents and experiences. That would make it worse.

Perhaps.

Or just exterminate him to get rid of a big huge problem. No need for psychologists and therapy sessions, contact persons, stimulation and encouragement. Just a butcher and a big hammer.

I mean, your OP suggests that all behavior is legit, that all behaviour makes sense and has a logical, legit reason. So why wouldn't it be a legitimate act of behaviour to just smack a big hammer in the back-head of the bully and the problem is solved?

Because that would obviously cause him to suffer, and I am against that.



Slimebeast on 25 June 2012

 

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
Slimebeast said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Do you mean violently punish him? That doesn't make much sense. You cannot punish someone for having bad parents and experiences. That would make it worse.

Perhaps.

Or just exterminate him to get rid of a big huge problem. No need for psychologists and therapy sessions, contact persons, stimulation and encouragement. Just a butcher and a big hammer.

I mean, your OP suggests that all behavior is legit, that all behaviour makes sense and has a logical, legit reason. So why wouldn't it be a legitimate act of behaviour to just smack a big hammer in the back-head of the bully and the problem is solved?

Because that would obviously cause him to suffer, and I am against that.

And yet you in the OP explained that his actions towards the victim were legitimate, despite making the victim suffer.

So why are my actions not legitimate but his are??



IIIIITHE1IIIII on 25 June 2012
Slimebeast said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Because that would obviously cause him to suffer, and I am against that.

And yet you in the OP explained that his actions towards the victim were legitimate, despite making the victim suffer.

So why are my actions not legitimate but his are??

I knew this discussion would commence sooner or later...

 

I don't like what he did to her, and I obviously feel sorry for her. What I explained in the OP is that there are reasons for his actions which the public who wants to see him suffering cannot see. The same would apply to your example.



badgenome on 25 June 2012
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

There is no need to punish him. All you need to do is to tell the other pupils that what he did was wrong, and that he did it because he has troubles in his life. He and all his victims are unfortunate, and needs comfort in one way or another.

War breeds war.

Except the knowledge that there are consequences is a deterrent. Again, look at the London riots. No amount of bleating on the news about how oppressed all these poor black people were stopped it from spreading. Once it was seen that the police were helpless, the white underclass (and some of the not-so-underclass) joined in.

Trying to brainwash everyone into living like one big, happy, I'm OK, you're OK, race-neutral, gender-neutral, religion-free Manson family hasn't worked even in Sweden, and it sure as hell won't work in any real country.



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Player1x3 on 25 June 2012
Slimebeast said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
Slimebeast said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:


In this case the priority should be to both teach the bullying kid to stop harass the other pupils and to educate. Education is about learning, after all.

But why don't just take the bully and put a hammer in his head?


Do you mean violently punish him? That doesn't make much sense. You cannot punish someone for having bad parents and experiences. That would make it worse.

Perhaps.

Or just exterminate him to get rid of a big huge problem. No need for psychologists and therapy sessions, contact persons, stimulation and encouragement. Just a butcher and a big hammer.

I mean, your OP suggests that all behavior is legit, that all behaviour makes sense and has a logical, legit reason. So why wouldn't it be a legitimate act of behaviour to just smack a big hammer in the back-head of the bully and the problem is solved?


It never takes longer than two pages for someone to point out flaws in this guy's philisophy xD



Player1x3 on 25 June 2012

Also, a question to Slimebeast


How can you consider yourself a Christian when you dont think free will exists?



ArnoldRimmer on 25 June 2012

I mostly agree, mainly because I doubt free will.



IIIIITHE1IIIII on 25 June 2012
badgenome said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

There is no need to punish him. All you need to do is to tell the other pupils that what he did was wrong, and that he did it because he has troubles in his life. He and all his victims are unfortunate, and needs comfort in one way or another.

War breeds war.

Except the knowledge that there are consequences is a deterrent. Again, look at the London riots. No amount of bleating on the news about how oppressed all these poor black people were stopped it from spreading. Once it was seen that the police were helpless, the white underclass (and some of the not-so-underclass) joined in.

Trying to brainwash everyone into living like one big, happy, I'm OK, you're OK, race-neutral, gender-neutral, religion-free Manson family hasn't worked even in Sweden, and it sure as hell won't work in any real country.


So now you are suggesting that Sweden is not a real country?

We have far less poor people and crimes/hate crimes than the US. In fact, we have one of the greatest welfare systems in the world. We sympathize with our criminals and try to understand them so that crime-preventing actions will be more effective, and you put some of your criminals in the electric chair...

Think about it. How can you possibly know that the American treatment of criminals is better than ours?



IIIIITHE1IIIII on 25 June 2012
Player1x3 said:
Slimebeast said:

Perhaps.

Or just exterminate him to get rid of a big huge problem. No need for psychologists and therapy sessions, contact persons, stimulation and encouragement. Just a butcher and a big hammer.

I mean, your OP suggests that all behavior is legit, that all behaviour makes sense and has a logical, legit reason. So why wouldn't it be a legitimate act of behaviour to just smack a big hammer in the back-head of the bully and the problem is solved?


It never takes longer than two pages for someone to point out flaws in this guy's philisophy xD


Not at all. He is presenting a scenario which has nothing to do with realistic criminality.

It never takes longer than a few pages to see people agreeing with poor counter-argument because they have nothing to add themselves.