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Forums - Sony Discussion - When will the Vita get THE game.

Khuutra said:
teigaga said:
Khuutra said:

It is difficult, if not impossible, to acknowledge an argument that hinges on the idea that Mario Kart and 3D Mario are "casual" properties

Casual in their appeal, they appeal to casual gamers. This is a fact! Don't assume it to be an insult.

Except that they also appeal to people who play them in a hardcore way. I just finished beating Special 8-Crown in SM3DLand yesterday - ended up beating it three times. It is a very difficult achievement in the context of 3D platforming games.

What you are describing isn't a "casual" design philosophy but a portable one. Games that can be picked up, enjoyed for a few minutes, and then set back down are intrinsically portable experiences. There is nothing necessarily casual about that.

So Mario Kart on the wii has a "portable" design philosophy? Is this the same for new super mario bros wii?

It has everything to do with accessability and lowering entry barriers. Nintenodo's games have been designed like this before handheld gaming existed so I don't see how it can be seen as A 'portable" design philosophy.



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teigaga said:
Khuutra said:

Except that they also appeal to people who play them in a hardcore way. I just finished beating Special 8-Crown in SM3DLand yesterday - ended up beating it three times. It is a very difficult achievement in the context of 3D platforming games.

What you are describing isn't a "casual" design philosophy but a portable one. Games that can be picked up, enjoyed for a few minutes, and then set back down are intrinsically portable experiences. There is nothing necessarily casual about that.

So Mario Kart on the wii has a "portable" design philosophy? Is this the same for new super mario bros wii?

It has everything to do with accessability and lowering entry barriers. Nintenodo's games have been designed like this before handheld gaming existed so I don't see how it can be seen as A 'portable" design philosophy.

That is a very good point; better to say that they are experiences which lend themselves easily to portable games, because calling them inherently portable is fallacious.

Similarly, though, calling games casual because they are easy to pick up and play is fallacious. The first Legend of Zelda was very easy to pick up, understand, and play, but it would also beat the living dog shit out of you. "Easy to play, hard to master" is no more inherently casual than it is inherently portable. Less so, even.



you mean when will vita get your game? lol



Khuutra said:
teigaga said:
Khuutra said:

Except that they also appeal to people who play them in a hardcore way. I just finished beating Special 8-Crown in SM3DLand yesterday - ended up beating it three times. It is a very difficult achievement in the context of 3D platforming games.

What you are describing isn't a "casual" design philosophy but a portable one. Games that can be picked up, enjoyed for a few minutes, and then set back down are intrinsically portable experiences. There is nothing necessarily casual about that.

So Mario Kart on the wii has a "portable" design philosophy? Is this the same for new super mario bros wii?

It has everything to do with accessability and lowering entry barriers. Nintenodo's games have been designed like this before handheld gaming existed so I don't see how it can be seen as A 'portable" design philosophy.

That is a very good point; better to say that they are experiences which lend themselves easily to portable games, because calling them inherently portable is fallacious.

Similarly, though, calling games casual because they are easy to pick up and play is fallacious. The first Legend of Zelda was very easy to pick up, understand, and play, but it would also beat the living dog shit out of you. "Easy to play, hard to master" is no more inherently casual than it is inherently portable. Less so, even.

I specifical said that the games had "casual appeal", not that they are casual games. By the same token I consider a game like GTA to have strong casual appeal and unsurpisingly games which a most accessable, both in terms of gameplay and concept tend to be the games that sell the most.
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i believe its gran turismo, i'm pretty sure its their best selling first party title from the ps2, psp, and ps3. also grand theft auto will probably help the vita



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7 Gran Turismo PSP 2009 Racing Sony Computer Entertainment 0.42 1.36 0.31 0.76 2.85


kain_kusanagi said:
Did the PSP ever have THE Game? I never picked up a PSP so I guess no game ever made me need it. Right now I feel the same about the Vita. I've wanted a 3DS for awhile, but I was waiting for the redesign. Since it won't be getting a second stick I'm not sure what I'll do. I'll either pick up a used one for Mario 3D Land, MK7, and Zelda OoT or I'll just keep waiting for a 3DS with better battery and no need for a wonky add on stick. The Vita has some good games but nothing that makes me feel like it's worth it yet.

PSP had several THE game. That portable had so many system sellers spread throughout its life.



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outlawauron said:
kain_kusanagi said:
Did the PSP ever have THE Game? I never picked up a PSP so I guess no game ever made me need it. Right now I feel the same about the Vita. I've wanted a 3DS for awhile, but I was waiting for the redesign. Since it won't be getting a second stick I'm not sure what I'll do. I'll either pick up a used one for Mario 3D Land, MK7, and Zelda OoT or I'll just keep waiting for a 3DS with better battery and no need for a wonky add on stick. The Vita has some good games but nothing that makes me feel like it's worth it yet.

PSP had several THE game. That portable had so many system sellers spread throughout its life.


I'm glad you found PSP games you loved. Nothing spoke to me.



Khuutra said:
Dodece said:
Khuutra said:

Sounds like a good strategy for a console game killer app.

Sounds like a terrible strategy for a portable game killer app.

The Vita needs portable-specific games that appeal to huge segments of the market, not experiences which are demonstrably better in every way that counts on consoles. Positioning the Vita as a console stand-in will only lead to ruin.

The problem is that everyone does exactly what you suggest. You have Nintendo, Laptops, Smart Phones, and Tablets all offering the same experience. What we have now is a glutted market that also happens to be a buyers market. Since everyone is giving about the same experience the one with the better priceing, or the one that serves as multiple devices will have the decided advantage. Unless the Vita can distinguish itself by pushing some envelope the others are not able to do, or cannot do effectively.

The way I see things is Sony can have a particular game, but the competition can sometimes have three or four answers to that game. What Sony needs are games the competition cannot answer, and have a long enough play life to offset the costs. What Sony needs is games that equal out to three or four games on any of the other platforms. I am not saying they dump the candy, but they need to offer up more of a main course.

For the price Sony is charging the Vita does need to be more like a console then your typical portable. If someone on the go is going to fork out that kind of hard cash. They are going to expect a premiere experience to be available. One typical game is not going to offset the price differential. Unless that game is so huge in its approach that it can offer up a solid hundred hours. Hell Sony needs games that big to offset the library size differential.


This is a sound idea except that portable games must be portable. The most successful portable games are always games where significant progress can be made in the space of minutes, even if they're many, many hours long (Pokemon being the best example of this). The only portable phenomenon I can think of off-hand that didn't meet this criteria was Monster Hunter, and it benefited from ad hoc local multiplayer functionality, which is still an intrinsically portable feature in this day and age.

The PSP was positioned as a console replacement at the start of its life in the West. It didn't help then, and I have trouble believing it will help now.



When you say the most successful portable games are those that you can enjoy in short bursts, you have to remember that you're talking about Nintendo games. And Nintendo Games are almost always playable in short bursts, regardless of platform. So I don't think the short-bursts trait is a result of portable games, but rather it's just a general trait of all Nintendo games.

The PSPs best selling game was Grand Theft Auto, which I don't think was designed for short bursts. Other big games for the PSP were God of War, Monster Hunter, Gran Turismo, ect. All of which I'd say are designed for longer playthroughs.

I would not be surprised if a large number of portable gamers play gamers for long stretches of time. Sure, traditionally speaking, the biggest portable games have been playable in short bursts, but that doesn't mean games are required to have that trait to be successful. It could simply meant that no company has came along and changed the industry. The non-Nintendo portable industry is still new & it's quite possible that there are non-traditional methods for games to sell big.

The PSP sold great on games suited for long stetches of time. Most of the top tier quality games sold great, even if they were meant for long gaming sessions (GoW, GT, ect). I'd very much like to see how well a game like The Elder Scrolls or Fallout does.

GTA is a game that can be enjoyed in short burst, i actually never cared finishig any GTA game, but ive spent hours as a casual gamer on it...you know like half an hour fighting against cops and never caring for the story or the missions...
GT is also a game that can be enjoyed that way, its a racing game, and all racing games sim or not are likely to be played in short periods of time....