That's not my point. The classic controller pro for the Wii was in a different situation in that the Wii did not have much third party support, so the classic controller did not see much need outside of first party games. With the Wii U, the suggestion is that all Wii U games will use the tablet, but will this be the case for third party developers? Especially when the Wii U pro controller is available for them as a control option? I already know the button layout is not much different. But Nintendo wants the Wii U in a position to gain massive third party support and it'll only work out for them if the tablet can bring in new experiences for every game not found on Sony and Microsoft platforms. The pro controller could possibly drive away the potential of these new experiences.

So basically you are admitting that the GamePad doesn't add anything substantial because it's just a pro controller with a touchscreen? What I'm saying is since the pro controller is available for third party developers, it's possible that they won't even consider developing for the tablet, especially since Sony and MS platforms don't utilize the same type of technology. And people should want a Wii U to play their games with the tablet in new and interesting ways, if Nintendo even wants this thing to be a success.

@bolded: I've never heard of this before. In fact, I heard the controller charges by USB, so it makes me think that it doesn't connect the same way the classic controller for Wii did.

So basically you are admitting that the GamePad doesn't add anything substantial because it's just a pro controller with a touchscreen? What I'm saying is since the pro controller is available for third party developers, it's possible that they won't even consider developing for the tablet, especially since Sony and MS platforms don't utilize the same type of technology. And people should want a Wii U to play their games with the tablet in new and interesting ways, if Nintendo even wants this thing to be a success.

@bolded: I've never heard of this before. In fact, I heard the controller charges by USB, so it makes me think that it doesn't connect the same way the classic controller for Wii did.

The Wii U controller add panoramic view, motion controller and touch interactivity as well as the ability to take the game anywhere in your how. It also receives data faster than HD TV apparently. Even those without and HD TV can see games in full detail do to the clarity of the controller screen. It adds near field communication, true split screen gameplay(unless of course you have no friends...lol) and of course, its has a built in Mic for voice input. No need to buy headsets anymore.

The lengths some people will go to in order to deny progress. Goodness, dealing with Sony and Microsoft fanatics is like dealing with hardcore republicans. Its as if they live in another plane of reality.

Excuse me? That is actually insulting, and shows me you can't deal with anyone unless they agree with you completely. I am as much of a Nintendo fan as a Sony fan. I've owned every Nintendo console/handheld starting from the SNES and I plan on owning a Wii U eventually.

When I said "you are admitting the GamePad doesn't add anything substantial", I wasn't claiming that as my own opinion. Rather, I was pointing out that you guys should not use the fact that the Upro has the same layout as the GamePad when trying to persuade others about this. Because then it just defeats the whole purpose of Wii U and its asymmetrical gameplay, which is not possible with the Upro controller. Instead, you should be listing those facts that you guys just listed, and show how developers will clearly utilize this technology for their games. But it's not that clear, is it?

I agree. The Wii U GamePad is more than just the touchscreen. You guys are ignoring the whole point I was making. When I get a Wii U, I don't want games that use the Pro Controller, because it will just be the same experience as playing a Sony or Microsoft console. The whole reason the Wii was a success was because their games used this thing called a Wiimote....you know, instead of CCpro. And I'm not saying developers will make Upro only games, but I'm only pointing out that it's a possibility. It's not really clear to me what Nintendo wants to do with the Wii U, since they have introduced something like the Pro controller so early on, before Wii U even launched. You are probably scrutinizing my words because you figure me for a Sony fanboy, but you are completely wrong about that. I like Nintendo. My PSN sig means nothing. I just want Lightning's picture there. lol

@first bolded: What, are you trying to say I have no friends? I know what split screen gameplay is. No need to tell me I can't experience split-screen without some friends. Your tone is very condescending. I hope you are sorry.

@oniyide: Yeah, there are many games on Wii that use CCpro. Thanks for pointing that out. I will probably wait a year before I get a Wii U to see how the development pans out for Nintendo's new console. To me, it's just not safe yet; I have no idea how developers will make use of what Wii U offers.

My only concern is whether the person I'm discussing with is using sound logic, understanding and reasoning which your posts are showing none of.

There are so many fundamental flaws in what you are saying that I can't pick out where to start.  Just the line "what Nintendo wants to do with the Wii U" alone is burning my retina's. What type of a statement is that? Are you serious?

You pretty much proved the point I was making.

You are very much out of line with your attitude, here. TheKoreanGuy has been respectful, reasonable, and has used logic in a more than acceptable manner. What you are disagreeing with is not his logic, but his subjective opinions. That your opinions differ from his does not mean that his logic is unsound.

If you want to challenge a person's assertion, challenge the assertion, don't attack the person. Attacking the person is itself a form of bad logic, known as ad hominem. I'm assuming you've heard of it.

Anyway, TheKoreanGuy - although I do understand your concerns, as I said before, I don't share them. Nintendo is trying to set up an ecosystem where developers have choices. Sometimes, the games that result won't make any special use of the Upad. There's nothing wrong with that. You may recall the point made back when the Wii was launched, that many games will benefit from the Wiimote, but some wouldn't? Similarly, there's a reason why New Super Mario Bros (the DS game) really just used the touchscreen for a button to activate the stored powerup - because touchscreen just isn't necessary for 2D Mario gameplay.

Not every game should try to use the Upad in a substantial way, because not every game will benefit from it. And that's fine - indeed, it's why the Wiimote is still useful with the system.

If you pay close attention, you'll notice that the Wiimote and the Upro controller are both subsets of the Upad's functionality (with the exception of the Wiimote+Nunchaku's ability to track the motion of two hands independently).

On the other hand, developers aren't going to ignore the Upad's new functionality. Why not? The same reason as why they get into competition with each other over how good-looking their games are. Developers don't like the idea of other developers being able to claim superiority at something. So rather than just not using the Upad, a lot of games will end up with gimmicky uses of it. What is great about the Upro is that, when they decide to make a gimmicky use of the Upad, they'll almost certainly not require it, and so you can just avoid the gimmick and play regularly.

Note that, for a lot of modern third-party titles, "asymmetric gameplay" isn't a major consideration, anyway, because they aren't all that likely to even have local multiplayer - most of them seem to prefer to focus exclusively on online multiplayer, anyway. And that's where Nintendo and certain third parties will come in and address it.

It really is, in this respect, very much the same as last gen, in that gimmicky controls will be common... but because of the Upro, the games aren't likely to be made worse as a result. The best that was available on the Wii was the Classic Controller, which lacked functionality of the regular controllers on the other systems, and thus made it more difficult for developers to port over for the CC. Nintendo is basically addressing one of the biggest problems with the Wii by providing the Upro.

Quite frankyly I don't care if you agree with me but if you are going to voice your opinion about Nintendo's ideas then why do you get hostile with me when I voice my opinion of yours. It hypocritical.Nintenod has stating there goals and purpose many times. I don't see a reason to keep endlessly debating something when all facts point in another direction.

Nintendo is not an American company and its core stratedgy does not use American style marketing like what you are suggesting. Believe it or not, Nintendo is actually one of the few major companies out their that puts its ideals first.

... really? You straight-out personally attacked TheKoreanGuy (not the "unless you don't have friends" thing, the other parts), and I'm calling you on it, when he was being nothing but reasonable and you were being a jerk.

And I'm betting you didn't even notice that I'm not him, despite the fact that I spent about 3/4 of my post responding to him and not you. I just did what you failed to do - provide real counterarguments to his concerns. And that's what they are - concerns. He wasn't saying "Nintendo is going to die because Upro will mean the Upad won't get used", he was saying "I'm a little worried that third parties won't do enough with the Upad because of the Upro". You are the only person who is trying to turn this into an "us vs them" type of argument.

Respect. It's so easy to give and so appreciated by the other side in an argument. Consider using it, at some point.

That wasn't direct at him. I was talking in general in direct reference to the subject matter. Stop taking my words out of context and trying to create a conflict where there is none.