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Forums - General - Local Pastor Calls For Death of 'Queers & Homosexuals'

mrstickball said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Bolded: That's an incredibly silly comparison. Mandela was preaching for equality, as far as I remember.

Italics: Just let me remind you that we have far, far less cases of racism here in Sweden compared to America.

You also have far, far less people of differing races in Sweden. Your country is quite xenophobic, too.

Its not a silly comparison. Limits on speech is entirely arbitrary, and that is my point. What is mandated today will be changed tomorrow, and those who get branded with "hateful" speech may be you, and not him. That is why I don't want to give the government such powers, because history shows that they do not use them for good.

That was from before the government reflected the opinions of the people (oh wait, are you Americans still in that situation?). Don't refer to history, refer to present.

As for our amount of races, that's also a silly comparison. We have a larger amount of monorities now than Germany had back in the 1930's.



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I actually do wish that you were allowed to say whatever you want over here too. Makes it so much easier to see which ones were born without brains and/or hearts.



I hate these monotonous threads. You get the exact same responses everytime one of these hate speech threads are made... smh.



kanageddaamen said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

And there we have yet another American input.

Not everyone is capable of protecting themselves from hatred towards them. A minority who was unfortunate to be born in the middle of a racist community should not have to listen to everyones 'opinions' every day. They need protection from vocal discrimination.

Yes, it is an American input, and I make no qualms about that.  We are a country that believes (or at least used to believe) that it is better to live with the consequences of protected, sweeping liberties than the spectre of constant government intervention in our lives.  You also seem to be confusing the acceptance of someone's freedom as the acceptance of their views, which is patently false.  

Right and wrong is not for the government to decide.  They should simply protect people from physical harm (eg murder, theft, etc) of actions of other people they do not willingly participate in.

That minority born into a racist community has freedom to move to a non-racist community.  If you are talking about a child, then it is the role of their guardian to provide a location that is condusive of a happy lifestyle.  Their discrimination  there is not the failure of government but that of their guardians, and other thinking, moral people who do not use their own freedom of speech to rally against such situations and bring awareness to the rest of the public.

I do love the irony though, of you throwing AMERICAN around as a discriminatory term, while railing against discriminatory speech.


Why do you keep assuming that it's our government that decides if racist statements should be illegal or not? Our people elected our government, and if we didn't agree with it then we wouldn't vote for it.

Bolded: And there it is again. Just let the people be discriminated, it's their fault if they are incapable of using their freedom to protect themselves.

 

I use the word 'American' simply because of the lack of an appropriate word in the context. If you really are offended by my usage of the word, then I will stop using it.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
mrstickball said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Bolded: That's an incredibly silly comparison. Mandela was preaching for equality, as far as I remember.

Italics: Just let me remind you that we have far, far less cases of racism here in Sweden compared to America.

You also have far, far less people of differing races in Sweden. Your country is quite xenophobic, too.

Its not a silly comparison. Limits on speech is entirely arbitrary, and that is my point. What is mandated today will be changed tomorrow, and those who get branded with "hateful" speech may be you, and not him. That is why I don't want to give the government such powers, because history shows that they do not use them for good.

That was from before the government reflected the opinions of the people (oh wait, are you Americans still in that situation?). Don't refer to history, refer to present.

As for our amount of races, that's also a silly comparison. We have a larger amount of monorities now than Germany had back in the 1930's.

Do you realize how stupid your statement looks? You said not to refer to the past, then in the very next sentence referred to the past.

How am I to have a rational discussion with someone that loves to make conflicting statements to that degree?



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

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mrstickball said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
mrstickball said:

You also have far, far less people of differing races in Sweden. Your country is quite xenophobic, too.

Its not a silly comparison. Limits on speech is entirely arbitrary, and that is my point. What is mandated today will be changed tomorrow, and those who get branded with "hateful" speech may be you, and not him. That is why I don't want to give the government such powers, because history shows that they do not use them for good.

That was from before the government reflected the opinions of the people (oh wait, are you Americans still in that situation?). Don't refer to history, refer to present.

As for our amount of races, that's also a silly comparison. We have a larger amount of monorities now than Germany had back in the 1930's.

Do you realize how stupid your statement looks? You said not to refer to the past, then in the very next sentence referred to the past.

How am I to have a rational discussion with someone that loves to make conflicting statements to that degree?


That's because I switched to another subject. Governments have changed a lot during recent decades. Racism, on the other hand, has not changed one bit.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
mrstickball said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
mrstickball said:

You also have far, far less people of differing races in Sweden. Your country is quite xenophobic, too.

Its not a silly comparison. Limits on speech is entirely arbitrary, and that is my point. What is mandated today will be changed tomorrow, and those who get branded with "hateful" speech may be you, and not him. That is why I don't want to give the government such powers, because history shows that they do not use them for good.

That was from before the government reflected the opinions of the people (oh wait, are you Americans still in that situation?). Don't refer to history, refer to present.

As for our amount of races, that's also a silly comparison. We have a larger amount of monorities now than Germany had back in the 1930's.

Do you realize how stupid your statement looks? You said not to refer to the past, then in the very next sentence referred to the past.

How am I to have a rational discussion with someone that loves to make conflicting statements to that degree?


That's because I switched the subject. Governments have changed a lot during recent decades. Racism, on the other hand, has not.

Uh hunh.

Sweden still has a significantly smaller minority than the US does. 93% of your population is either Swedish or scandanavian (Finn or Lapp). In America, 28% of our population is a minority. Even then, if you were to break out each nationality, it would be even more muddled with no nationality consisting of over 25% of the total population.

That is exactly why free speech has been so valuable to us. Its allowed many minorities to settle their differences without violence. Have we had major problems? Absolutely. But our experiment is very unique in that we're a country made up of many, many, nationalities, yet work together pretty well in general.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
kanageddaamen said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

And there we have yet another American input.

Not everyone is capable of protecting themselves from hatred towards them. A minority who was unfortunate to be born in the middle of a racist community should not have to listen to everyones 'opinions' every day. They need protection from vocal discrimination.

Yes, it is an American input, and I make no qualms about that.  We are a country that believes (or at least used to believe) that it is better to live with the consequences of protected, sweeping liberties than the spectre of constant government intervention in our lives.  You also seem to be confusing the acceptance of someone's freedom as the acceptance of their views, which is patently false.  

Right and wrong is not for the government to decide.  They should simply protect people from physical harm (eg murder, theft, etc) of actions of other people they do not willingly participate in.

That minority born into a racist community has freedom to move to a non-racist community.  If you are talking about a child, then it is the role of their guardian to provide a location that is condusive of a happy lifestyle.  Their discrimination  there is not the failure of government but that of their guardians, and other thinking, moral people who do not use their own freedom of speech to rally against such situations and bring awareness to the rest of the public.

I do love the irony though, of you throwing AMERICAN around as a discriminatory term, while railing against discriminatory speech.


Why do you keep assuming that it's our government that decides if racist statements should be illegal or not? Our people elected our government, and if we didn't agree with it then we wouldn't vote for it.

Bolded: And there it is again. Just let the people be discriminated, it's their fault if they are incapable of using their freedom to protect themselves.

 

I use the word 'American' simply because of the lack of an appropriate word in the context. If you really are offended by my usage of the word, then I will stop using it.

Your government may be elected by the people but it is still up to its own discretion to make law.  Yes you can vote them out butwhat do you do if the majority of people feel a certain way that is against what you feel is best for your life?

That is why we have the first ammendment, so no matter how much the majority may view ANY speech as wrong (because it could apply to anything, athiests, theists, video games, movies, racism, sexism, etc etc etc)  the majority cannot coerce the government into denying the rights of the minority by the majority.

We have the freedoms protected not because we like that other people can say what they want, but because we want to make sure our freedom is not taken from us in the name of the outrage of the majority.

It is a person's own responsibility to make their lives what they want it.  I for one believe in a general moral and social courtesy given by most people, and the way to remove this sort of idiocy is not by the government telling people what they can and cannot say, which just breeds resentment, but by having free and open exchange of ideas.  Show people why things are right and wrong, do not dictate to them what they can and cannot do.

And I am not offended by you using the term American, I just find it telling about your true feeling of tolerance.



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That guy is one of the many legal terrorists out there.

/thread



I'm a Foreigner, and as such, i am grateful for everyone pointing out any mistakes in my english posted above - only this way i'll be able to improve. thank you!

kanageddaamen said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Why do you keep assuming that it's our government that decides if racist statements should be illegal or not? Our people elected our government, and if we didn't agree with it then we wouldn't vote for it.

Bolded: And there it is again. Just let the people be discriminated, it's their fault if they are incapable of using their freedom to protect themselves.

 

I use the word 'American' simply because of the lack of an appropriate word in the context. If you really are offended by my usage of the word, then I will stop using it.

Your government may be elected by the people but it is still up to its own discretion to make law.  Yes you can vote them out butwhat do you do if the majority of people feel a certain way that is against what you feel is best for your life?

That is why we have the first ammendment, so no matter how much the majority may view ANY speech as wrong (because it could apply to anything, athiests, theists, video games, movies, racism, sexism, etc etc etc)  the majority cannot coerce the government into denying the rights of the minority by the majority.

We have the freedoms protected not because we like that other people can say what they want, but because we want to make sure our freedom is not taken from us in the name of the outrage of the majority.

It is a person's own responsibility to make their lives what they want it.  I for one believe in a general moral and social courtesy given by most people, and the way to remove this sort of idiocy is not by the government telling people what they can and cannot say, which just breeds resentment, but by having free and open exchange of ideas.  Show people why things are right and wrong, do not dictate to them what they can and cannot do.

And I am not offended by you using the term American, I just find it telling about your true feeling of tolerance.


I think you need to understand where we draw the line. We do have the freedom of speech over here, which means that everyone is able to express their opinions without the fear of someone looking down on them. However, one may not use that freedom to take away the freedom from others. Expressing hatred towards minorities is a way of limiting their freedom; the freedom of not being looked down upon. How can you be free if people around you are able to call you names and treat you like crap in a way that is actually not prohibited by laws? You say that it's a person's own responsibility to make their lives what they want, but what if they want to avoid verbal mistreatment, but are unable to?

That is where the government, represented by the people, is supposed to step in.

 

Feel free to reject my 'true feeling of intolerance'.