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Forums - Politics - Obama endorses gay marriage

badgenome said:
Kasz216 said:

It's funny too... if only because i'd say gay marriage is very much the epitomy of something that is federal jurisdiction.

Mostly because marriage has MANY federal rights.

Maybe you could argue that states can decide whether or not to recognize gay marriages as  far as individual state benefits go... but due to the federal measures, "Federal Marriage" is COMPLETELY a federal issue.

Yeah, I'd think so. What about social security benefits for spouses? Are gay couples only eligible if their state recognizes their union as a "marriage"? How is that fair? Seems like this would be very much the jursidiction of the feds.

Marriage discrimination laws were found unconstitutional in Loving V Virginia. That was related to race discrimination, but the language of the ruling seemed very clear:

"Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State."

If the President was serious about this, they could easily take, say, North Carolina to court and basically end this for once and for all.



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Say what you want about George W. Bush, but he didn't go back on his beliefs or values. I'm not trying to open up a can of worms, but I have an unfavorable opinion of those who change their values to get a few extra votes.



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badgenome said:
chocoloco said:
badgenome said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Funny how he's pro gay marriage, but supports states rights on this issue.... can you think of any other issue that he thinks the states should be allowed to disagree with him?

Medicinal marijuana laws. He supports the rights of states to permit it, and he supports even more the right of the DEA to totally ignore that shit and raid people's houses anyway.

His real beliefs will be tested if Colorado or Washington manages to legalize it this year for all 21 year olds. But judging from all the medicinal pharmacies in Colorado already the FEDS are hardly making a dent on that industry.

Update: dent made.

If your point was the fact that he is hypocritical on his stance I already agreed. That would be a dent on a few individuals. Overall though the State has been like Amsterdam and Nikkom ever since the Medical intake and Denver as a city is already a legal city. Though I no longer smoke it, I know the Bush administration and most Republican administrations took way harsher views with their drug Czars on medical MJ and the legalization as a whole. Fortunately as we speak more states are working towards Medical MJ and Marijuana legalization in general and as more states pass it the federal government will have a harder time saying the can really waste funds enforcing pointless laws.

Also, a good site to use to get those kind of articles is Cannabisnews.com to find all the recent articles recently made concerning legalization since you seem so interested.



SamuelRSmith said:

If the President was serious about this, they could easily take, say, North Carolina to court and basically end this for once and for all.

If he were serious about this, he would have come out in support of gay marriage before North Carolina voted on it.



robzo100 said:
I think a politician willing to change his stance in the middle of his or her tenure should be looked at as an advantageous trait.

All us young hypocrites keep yelling for politicians to be flexible and then we bash them any time they don't stand up to their principles. We're sending them mixed signals when we do that. I'm sure everyone hates rick santorum for many conservative reasons, but one statement he got booed for when he shouldn't have was when he said "politics is a team sport, sometimes you have to compromise your position."

Not trying to get off topic, but a lot of people are goddamn hypocrites.

Normally I would agree, but most politicians don't come out and change stances while admitting, albiet in a very political way, that they were wrong in their previous beliefs. Obama did not pull a Romney where as he has flip flopped on many arguments and when called on it did not have a good defence for his stance change...

I fail to see how his outting his support for same sex marriage is adventageous at all...if anything he handed a great deal of his voter base to Romney or a 3rd party candidate with that affirmation. He just went from beating Romney by a reasonable margin to having to struggle for re-election. I'm not sure where you are from, but Black communities in the USA are not very friendly toward homosexuality in general and were outraged when Same Sex Marriage was compared to the Civil Rights movements of the 1960's and understandably so. It was enough to swing Prop 8 in California, THE most progressive state in the union.

I am 100% for same sex marriage, but this is a can of worms that poses more harm than good to the Obama - Biden campaign.



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chocoloco said:

If your point was the fact that he is hypocritical on his stance I already agreed. That would be a dent on a few individuals. Overall though the State has been like Amsterdam and Nikkom ever since the Medical intake and Denver as a city is already a legal city.


Wait? Wut? how did I? ?? ??



 

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kaneada said:
robzo100 said:
I think a politician willing to change his stance in the middle of his or her tenure should be looked at as an advantageous trait.

All us young hypocrites keep yelling for politicians to be flexible and then we bash them any time they don't stand up to their principles. We're sending them mixed signals when we do that. I'm sure everyone hates rick santorum for many conservative reasons, but one statement he got booed for when he shouldn't have was when he said "politics is a team sport, sometimes you have to compromise your position."

Not trying to get off topic, but a lot of people are goddamn hypocrites.

Normally I would agree, but most politicians don't come out and change stances while admitting, albiet in a very political way, that they were wrong in their previous beliefs. Obama did not pull a Romney where as he has flip flopped on many arguments and when called on it did not have a good defence for his stance change...

I fail to see how his outting his support for same sex marriage is adventageous at all...if anything he handed a great deal of his voter base to Romney or a 3rd party candidate with that affirmation. He just went from beating Romney by a reasonable margin to having to struggle for re-election. I'm not sure where you are from, but Black communities in the USA are not very friendly toward homosexuality in general and were outraged when Same Sex Marriage was compared to the Civil Rights movements of the 1960's and understandably so. It was enough to swing Prop 8 in California, THE most progressive state in the union.

I am 100% for same sex marriage, but this is a can of worms that poses more harm than good to the Obama - Biden campaign.


Honestly, I never know how this kinds stuff effects the voter demographics.  I mean when less than HALF of the population vote, there is not telling what decisions will tap into the non-voting base, much less change the popsitions of people already in the voter base.  However, I think a good portion of people who don't vote are people who have been disenfranchized by the government.  If you are gay, the government, both democrats and republicans, have repeatedly not taken notice of you so why vote?  Perhaps this taps into liberals who didn't vote before.

Again though, i don't know how one can even begin to estimate this kind of stuff considering the unqie voter turnout.



NiKKoM said:
chocoloco said:

If your point was the fact that he is hypocritical on his stance I already agreed. That would be a dent on a few individuals. Overall though the State has been like Amsterdam and Nikkom ever since the Medical intake and Denver as a city is already a legal city.


Wait? Wut? how did I? ?? ??

Everybody knows the Dutch are the kings of pot and hookers, thus this correlates with you being a pot and hooker mongerer. Simple science!



NiKKoM said:
chocoloco said:

If your point was the fact that he is hypocritical on his stance I already agreed. That would be a dent on a few individuals. Overall though the State has been like Amsterdam and Nikkom ever since the Medical intake and Denver as a city is already a legal city.


Wait? Wut? how did I? ?? ??

More importantly, is there video of it?



I will never recognize the marriage of gays regardless of what those slick politicians say. I honestly think marriage is a religious institution and the government has no part in it anyways so if gays are part of a religion that accpets their marriage, more power to them but I never will recognize it.



"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." -My good friend Mark Aurelius