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Forums - General Discussion - The Abrahamic Religions make No Sense

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

But God already knows about everything that you will choose before you are born. So what is the purpose of hell? Did God just create a few humans that are destined to commit sins and go there once they die? It makes no sense.

We are God's slaves.

You just realized this? That's what the three main religions teach from day 1.



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IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
DélioPT said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

If God knows everything at once then he already has a list of every single sin and good deed that you ever will commit. That list is affected by Him and Him only, assuming that he is almighty.


Good deeds and sins are man made. God presents you a path as does the devil. You choose. In neither case does anyone take that away from you.
That`s why you are responsible for your actions.

But God already knows about everything that you will choose before you are born. So what is the purpose of hell? Did God just create a few humans that are destined to commit sins and go there once they die? It makes no sense.

We are God's slaves.

What God knows is one thing, what you do is another thing. Yes, they are connected in a way, but not in a way that takes your free will from you. The purpose of hell and the purpose are even are to be seen as continuation of what your life here is/were. That is what judgment is all about: to give you exactly what YOU wanted.

Don`t forget that giving people free will, not only did God opened Himself for suffering but even allowed you to deny Him. He, who is. But like everything else, things have a consequence.



Think about it this way, God knows every possible permutation of your actions that could take place at a given time and the ultimate outcome of it on your surroundings (universe) and your ultimate fate (heaven or hell). So at this instant me moving my hand typing on the keyboard changed some aspect of my future in comparison to if I hadn't chosen to type on the keyboard.

What free will allows us to do is choose the permutation that we want to go down upon, while God knows every possible event that could have transpired at that given time. If we had a sealed fate then a criminal could just say that God made him do the crime, while he had the choice to not do it.



 

BasilZero said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

If religious people don't like gay marriage, then why do they bother with it?

All I'm doing is put some of my thoughts about why I stopped being religious on the internet (and so far, no one has been able to disprove anything that I've said in this thread). If that bugs you then you may leave, if you want to participate though then that's great. The more opinions being shared, the better.


I have to agree with NNN2004 though, as a Athiest, dont you think the best way to disapprove God is well , not talking about him or mentioning him (not saying you should stop making topics, just saying it in general). Mentioning God or a deity only means you acknowledge his/her/its existence but not in a positive way.

About "Gay Marriage" I see it as a civil union because that is pretty much what alot of the people who want to get "married" want, something about tax breaks or w/e, I am not too familiar with it (of course this only applies to the US I think o.O). If they want to get in a civil union, fine by me.


As you clearly can see in the OP, I am not trying to disapprove God. My entire point is based on God's existence.



UltimateUnknown said:
Think about it this way, God knows every possible permutation of your actions that could take place at a given time and the ultimate outcome of it on your surroundings (universe) and your ultimate fate (heaven or hell). So at this instant me moving my hand typing on the keyboard changed some aspect of my future in comparison to if I hadn't chosen to type on the keyboard.

What free will allows us to do is choose the permutation that we want to go down upon, while God knows every possible event that could have transpired at that given time. If we had a sealed fate then a criminal could just say that God made him do the crime, while he had the choice to not do it.


This makes sense if you assume that God is not almighty. If he is though, then he would know which decisions you will make (and would make in every possible situation).

Bolded: That's my point. Some people are born to go to hell.



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BasilZero said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
As you clearly can see in the OP, I am not trying to disapprove God. My entire point is based on God's existence.

I know, my response to the OP is 2 posts above this one xD. I just made this comment because I felt like saying it for a while but was afraid of a potential ban/moderation from a moderator XD.


Oh, ok :P

 

"Have you played Star Ocean Till the End of Time? Very interesting game background, you should read about it or even play it (100+ hours). 

Anyways, just because he is all seeing doesnt mean he will intervene in everything that happens or makes things go the way he wants them to, pretty much the events are "randomized" , he just knows the conclusions/results of the randomization of events. 

Free will in this regard is a choice given to humanity, they have the choice of going any certain path that they desire, people arent born murders, heroes, etc, those are all given choices and roles. For an example in a video game, such as Fable for example, you can choose to do good or bad, but you know what will happen ahead of time which is obvious, but you still had a choice of choosing whichever path you want to take whether you want to be a hero or a villain. 

However the last part I do have to agree with you, Fate is in God's hands, however Destiny (the roads/paths/decisions we make to get to the final destination (i.e. Fate) is ours alone, how we end up at the end of our lives is up to God). "


Hmm... To avoid repeating myself, please read my previous post =)



“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

Epicurus

Personally, I believe that the concept of an omnipotent, almighty being to be absolutely ludicrous in every conceivable way.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
UltimateUnknown said:
Think about it this way, God knows every possible permutation of your actions that could take place at a given time and the ultimate outcome of it on your surroundings (universe) and your ultimate fate (heaven or hell). So at this instant me moving my hand typing on the keyboard changed some aspect of my future in comparison to if I hadn't chosen to type on the keyboard.

What free will allows us to do is choose the permutation that we want to go down upon, while God knows every possible event that could have transpired at that given time. If we had a sealed fate then a criminal could just say that God made him do the crime, while he had the choice to not do it.


This makes sense if you assume that God is not almighty. If he is though, then he would know which decisions you will make (and would make in every possible situation).

Bolded: That's my point. Some people are born to go to hell.

Pardon me, but I think you have the definition of almighty confused. You seem to be attributing almighty with the fact that God chooses everything and doesn't allow anyone to choose, while it is clearly stated that man is a special creation who do have the will to choose.

As for the hell comment, if we had a sealed fate then no one would be going to hell. For example animals who have a sealed fate will all go to heaven IIRC, none of the angels who also have a sealed fate (of serving god without question) go to hell. So if humans had a sealed fate then god would make the fate be such that it doesn't make them end up in hell because by definition god is the most merciful, the most loving, the most kind. Simply put there would be no evil. Hell is one of the direct consequences of free will and it is there (while in this life) to encourage you to steer clear of the evil deeds that free will presents you with. God knows best.



 

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

God is almighty, and He has every single ability that one may think of. This obviously includes the ablity to see the future, to flawlessly predict everything that will happen in this universe. God is aware of everything.

This makes you wonder though: If God really is almighty, then doesn't He already know who will end up in heaven and who will end up in hell? Would He not be able to predict every single good deed and sin that you will commit throughout your life, even before you were born? I mean, how could He not know?

As I see it, God is currently watching us go through happiness and misery just for the hell of it. He knows exactly how evil will affect all humans involved and He has the ability to stop it. He already knows how every single human will use their free (yet, by God, predictable) will, so it's not up to us to do anything about our situation.

 

Our fate is in God's hands. Period.

The question is why did he create anything at all in the first place. if he is all powerful all knowing perfect being, he would know what would happen to any creation he could ever make before he even started with it.

What would be his reason to create anything?



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

BasilZero said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
UltimateUnknown said:
Think about it this way, God knows every possible permutation of your actions that could take place at a given time and the ultimate outcome of it on your surroundings (universe) and your ultimate fate (heaven or hell). So at this instant me moving my hand typing on the keyboard changed some aspect of my future in comparison to if I hadn't chosen to type on the keyboard.

What free will allows us to do is choose the permutation that we want to go down upon, while God knows every possible event that could have transpired at that given time. If we had a sealed fate then a criminal could just say that God made him do the crime, while he had the choice to not do it.


This makes sense if you assume that God is not almighty. If he is though, then he would know which decisions you will make (and would make in every possible situation).

Bolded: That's my point. Some people are born to go to hell.


False, I dont believe there are people borned to go to Hell, its a choice, every person has a choice of choosing a particular path like in my earlier example.

For me personally I believe:

Destiny - Humans have options, choices to affect their overall lifestyles and to affect those around them.

Fate - The Final conclusion of a life (i.e. conclusion of a book).

For example, you could be a VIP who is super rich or a important person, you could either go down a path of corruption and controversy inflicting pain to people but still live up to a ripe old age (DESTINY), or you can live a peaceful and honorable life assisting people and bringing happiness to others (DESTINY), in the end there would always be a final conclusion, you could be shot by someone who thought different from you or who was against what you may of done despite whatever path you chose (FATE).


I agree with what you say, but don't fate and destiny have the similar meanings, at least how it is presumed by people?

I think it might be a bit easier to understand at least for me if you called your destiny by either "destiny or fate" and called your fate "death". Because as you said, you do clearly choose how you live your life, but how you die is up to god and a priviledge only god has alone. Except if you commit suicide, which is considered to be one of the biggest sins.