I'm honestly trying to understand, so bear with me.

The reason why B is going over my head is because I'm unfamiliar with almost all the examples you mentioned, and for instance, I never watched neither the Sopranos, nor Breaking Bad to be able to discuss on that footing. Didn't want to look stupid so I just gave my take on it.

I mentioned that FFIV and FFVIII for example don't have similar characters like you said they would (like all anime characters), what is your take on that, and do you see a difference in the overarching themes of FFVIII and FFIV?

Another point that differentiates FFX (as an aside):

The chronology in FFX is like nothing ever seen in any prior FF, what is your take on that?

For A) I understand better your PoV now. But in all honestly, I highly disagree with it regarding the FF franchise. If he didn't like FFX, he may like FFIV. It all depends on what he didn't like, and if that element is also found in that other entry. That's what you would have to ask such a person. You can't just assume off the bat that they won't like it simply because of other similarities. You know what I mean?

Another important question for him would be "Do you like JRPGs at all, any of those you tried?". If he says no, then probably no matter what arguments you bring up, there is enough that is similar in all of them for him to just skip the genre altogether, including Ogre Battle and Chrono Cross.

That's why I said it'd probably take a whole video to explain it.

To use the Soprano's and Breaking bad as an example.

The Soprano's main theme is "People can't change." It's about a mobster and his family and well, the people don't change.  They want to, they try to but ultimatly they are who they are.

This is largely because the writer himself beleives people can't change.  In everything he writes... people when given the chance to change, won't change. 

Breaking Bad however is about how people do change... how one mistake or two can turn someone from being "Good" to being "Bad."  A mild mannered highschool teacher can suddenly become a murdering meth dealer.

They essentially make completely different arguements about morality... and there writers can't help it because that's how they view life.  Design teams together tend to end up sharing the same view, espiecally when working on a franchise or series.

One in Final Fantasy that's overlooked is strong Ecological themes. 

like say how FF1 your fighting to save the world by bringing light back to the four elemental crystals.

FF2 you are saving nature and your home planet from demons from a hell dimension... they need unique natural items to accomplish this.  For example needing the "Sunfire" to destroy the Dreadnought.  A giant evil unnatural dreadnought

FF3 In the prologue the world is almost destroyed by technology trying to harness with the 4 elemental crystals of light... those who disrespected nature and used their technology in attempts to master it were destroyed by their own hubris.  The same happens with the dark crystals and the story repeats.

FF4 Again, elemental crystals, abused by man for his evil goals, wrecking havoc on regular people.  The nation causing the trouble.  The most technologically advanced nation.  Baron... the only ones capable of airships.

FF5 - Again, nature being exploited, this time shattered and nature being ruined, screwed to free Exdeath... who himself is an evil tree who was perverted buy outside unnatural forces.

FF6 - You have an evil world of steampunk technology, and evilist of them all is The Empire.  Who is the most technologically advanced, by far.  They have Mecha, factories... you don't see this stuff anywhere else.  You have another world where everything was peaceful... pretty much no technology, just the Espers living happily.  Being in the corrupt technological world drives some espers insane.  Generally the more technological you are, the more evil you are.  Look at Zozo, which despite being a run down town for criminals seems to be the only city with the ability to create apartment buildings!

FF7 -  The poor are screwed by a corproation draining the life out of the planet.  Pretty self explanitory.

FF8 - Main villian is from the future, who mind controls "Edea"

FF9 - Terrans were advanced magically  (in that magic technological way) then something caused "The Decay" which caused nature to rot.

FF10 - Giant robot can destroy the world. (more too it but this is taking forever.).

FF12 - Technology only seeming for the rich, and the warlike, causes great pain.

FF13- Cacoon, techonolgoical sky city that's full of xenophobic dicks.

This is all just a very simple and very incomplete list in which there are a number of oher things that point to said theme in each game... and this took me an hour to put together.  Hence why i don't want to have to break it all down too much.

The other part is the small stuff...  how a reserved man reacts to being hit on, whether free wheeling people are just free wheeling or have some tragedy they're hiding etc.

Should be bundled.

The Dev are people from santa monica studios and the dev team was people from santa monica so the dev wont be the problem it probably be marketing

Kasz was comparing to books and movies.

And as I said before, every games lacks in the department of storytelling compared with books and movies. That has to do with the interactionss. Surely, it is possible to have show a novel/a movie, there the player can from time to time make a decision. That was made. It's not that popular obviously, because it lacks the interactivity other games offer. And movies impress more in cinema and novels are hard to read on screen. So yes, nethack and Baldur's gate lack in that department too (that's why I said Kasz was too harsh here).

Pen&Paper is a different point. Yes, the gamemaster is inventing the story in the start. But the difference here is the form of interaction. It is storytelling basically. I tell the GM whatmy character does. So the interaction with the "game-engine" is story-telling and the story is developed together from players and GM. As a player of a computer-game I can only see the story the dev has prepared for me (possibly he has prepared multiple stories, the gamer then selects one of the prepared stories). In pen&paper you develop as a gamer the story together with the GM. That aside, naturally gamer and GM could be bad at storytelling.

Wow, I'm starting to see your PoV. I came from a different viewpoint completely. Nature only had a part to play in the FF series for me, except FF1 and FFVII.

I'm pretty impressed how you remember all those elements so well...

Personally I didn't see it that way at all. I mean, I saw that as a common theme in a sense (mostly for 1 and 7), but they barely mattered in the story (to me), in the other Final Fantasies. For example, in FFIV, it's much more the role of the moon that mattered, and that of corrupted will (Zeromus on Golbez, Golbez on Kain). The theme of love was important in FFIV, but as was the theme of rebirth (Cecil discovering his true identity). Alot of these things you don't find in FF1 for example, apart from growing older, that's a character transformation right there, but not of the same nature.

I realize that post took you an hour to write, and I'm just chewing the fat with you and it's really interesting for me, because I'm a hardcore FFIV fan. But yeah, I would see it as a very different experience for Mnemeth to FFX, despite certain minor similarities. But I do see what you're saying.

In that case, it would be good to ask him. I think any video game fan should task themselves with getting to know genres that aren't what they like anyways, and FFVII being the most popular final fan, and Final Fantasy being the most sold JRPG game to date, I think knowing Cloud Strife would be a good start, then probably Squall, Tidus, Cecil and Zidane. Heck, I never played the FFs after FFX and I know who lightning is :)

Oh, forgot this. Another important theme in FFVI, VII, VIII, IX, X are manipulating peoples' identity (Terra, Cloud). I never finished FFX, so I'm not sure, but all the others seem to have been toyed with deep in their identities as individuals. That's differently handled in FFIV (Kain, Golbez), and not as common in the other final fantasies.

Forgot this too! Also, a good screen writer should be able to write the world in different views, irrespective of his/her view on the world. My friend is a writer, and he goes into great lengths to understand things he doesn't know so as to create a more credible world. Viewpoints included (different characters). Not saying those who made FF were as such (capable of that), but in general that's how it should be.

I'm not bashing FF. I only played one and it wasn't impressing me enough that I pay much for other installments (at least as long as the choice in the RPG-genre is big). As it is, I'm more impressed so far by Atlus-games for instance. All I said was, that RPGs are much more than FF and even JRPGs.

I think, what he want's to say is the following: Would you buy another FF, without knowing much about it? Probably you would be at least positive towards it, because you know every (or at least most) FF-games were matching your tastes.

If I see another book from Iain Banks or China Mieville I will probably buy it without knowing more about it, because I like these authors.

If I see another movie from Tim Burton or Park Chan-Wook, I will probably watch it, because I like these directors.

All the differences in setting, characters, details aside, I know they do some things similar that appeal to me. I think that's what Kasz is talking about.

Well, there are two things here:

First thing I want to point out is, you played Final Fantasy X. Despite the few similarities it has with FFIV for example, it is a whole different beast. The only reason why I would pick it up after playing all the FFs before it is because I can trust the quality, not because it may have the same themes. The same goes with my favorite directors/actors/producers. I don't expect to get the same experience from them, only the same quality. So yes, the quality is very close to the same between FFIV and FFX, but other than that the game plays at a very different pace (battle-wise), imho, and the magic acquiring is very different. The use of aeons changes things alot, because HP is affected (I haven't finished it and it's been a while). The tone is very different and so is the mood. It's almost two completely different experiences by far the differences outweigh the similarities there.

Second point is, even if it didn't match your tastes, you should be aware of the main protagonist of the biggest game in the most known RPG genre in video gaming. I understand you're from germany and things are a little different there, but this is an international forum, and on the internet, on international forums, the most known RPG series is Final Fantasy.

So even if it doesn't cater to you tastes, you should know who Cloud Strife is, just like I should know who Nathan Drake is, despite only playing UC for the first time last week, and I should know who Marcus Fenix is, even though I will never, ever play GeoW in my life.

With all that, go play FFIV. If you like it, play FFVII and VIII.

And have fun.

If you don't, come tell us why. We'd like to know.

With all that said, maybe PABR having FFVII won't help things in Germany all that much