In my opinion, mixing 2D Mario with 3D Mario is more like mixing chocolate with milk.
Do you want more Super Mario Bros.? | |||
| Yes, I am smart. | 94 | 75.81% | |
| No, I am an idiot. | 16 | 12.90% | |
| No, I want Nintendo to fail. | 13 | 10.48% | |
| Total: | 123 | ||
RolStoppable said:
But 3D Mario games obviously don't borrow most of their ideas from past games and bank on nostalgia, right? Always these double standards, even after Super Mario 3D Land just came out and desperately tried to be like Super Mario Bros. NSMB brought Donkey Kong Country back. That alone is worth more than 3D Mario did in the last decade. It's just unfortunate that a lot of companies thought that NSMB is just a game that banks on nostalgia, so they didn't update their new games appropriately. Super Mario Bros. evolved while games like Mega Man 9 and 10 remained stuck in the past. EDIT: Saw your other post. This isn't about one series that needs to go. Co-existence is very much possible. However, the current priorities are wrong. Super Mario Bros. must get AAA treatment and release first on every Nintendo system, because it is verifiably much more important than 3D Mario ever was and will be. |
And it seems like they're finally starting to figure that out, after the last attempt to have it both ways that was (the admittedly quite well-done) Mario 3D Land. Super Mario Bros 4 for Wii U launch? hmm...

Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.
| JWeinCom said: SMH. Where to start... "I don’t see 3d Land selling 3DS systems, inspiring more games like it, or filling up Nintendo’s coffers with money. What will it take to drop the sick, sick 3d obsession?" Well, 3DS sales did actually rise with Mario 3D Land, although that was also on the heels of a price drop, and right around the holiday season, so its hard to attribute that success to one title. Super Mario 3D Land's first 10 weeks saw more sales than NSMBDS. The game is selling quite well, and I'm sure it has made Nintendo a hefty profity. As for inspiring games like it... Ummm lol? The game came out around half a year ago. I'm not saying there is a surge of yet to be announced Mario 3D Land knock offs, but with development cycles the way they are, the earliest we would see such a thing is E3 this year. But instead of pointing out ridiculous quotes, let's examine the deeper themes. First off, the whole technology aspect apparently went over the author's head. The decline in 2-D games happened, not surprisingly, when 3D capable systems came out. Naturally, the market typically craves the new and unique. Did games like Donkey Kong Country, Castlevania, Mega Man and Contra disappear because of Mario 64? No, they disappeared because new technology made 3D gaming possible. Likewise, Mario 64 didn't singlehandedly spawn 3D platformers. The growth of the genre was a result of the technology that made it possible, although naturally many developers took cues from Mario 64. Video killed the radio star. To ignore this massive change in technology and place the blame for decline in 2-D gaming solely on 3-D Mario's shoulders is a laughable oversimplification. It's unconfirmed, but a couple of developers (SNK/Capcom for instance) have talked about Sony's dislike for 2-D gaming. The legend goes that Sony often would not approve 2-D games because they wanted the PS1/2 to be seen as modern 3D systems. Regardless of whether or not this is true, it would be silly to ignore Sony's rise to prominence in the gaming market as a factor in the decline of 2-D gaming. Suddenly 2-D gaming is on the rise again! And this is 100% because of New Super Mario Bros Wii! Right..? Well, uhhhhh... not really.
Considering that New Super Mario Bros Wii came out in November of 09, and Mega Man 9 came out in September of 08, I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that New Super Mario Bros Wii had very little to do with Mega Man 9's creation. So, let me answer your question... "Without NSMB, do you think you would have seen the new Mega Man games?" Why yes Mr. Malstrom. Yes, I think we would have seen the new Mega Man games without NSMBWii. I lol at you. Now, you might look to me and say "No, he was talking about NSMB for the DS (Btw good job distinguishing between the two different NSMB games in your article)! That's the game that started all of this!!!"
Between the time of Yoshi's Island and NSMB DS we had 4 2D Mega Man games. 5 if you want to count Mega Man and Bass. 6 if you want to count powered up. We also saw not one, not two, but three 2D Sonic games. Kirby saw 2 original handheld 2-D adventures along with a remake. We had 2 2-D Castlevania games, and even 2 2-D Metroids. I have to assume we're not talking about the handheld market, although the author makes reference to Mario 3D Land, so maybe he's just had his head stuck in a hole for a while. In conclusion, I don't think there is a shred of merit in that whole article. Perhaps with a bit more research or evidence a decent point could have been made, but that's not the case. |
^ This
Plus Malstrom is off his rocker if he thinks Super Mario Bros. on the NES created the market for 2D platformers. I hasten to remind him that 1982's Pitfall on the Atari 2600 sold over four million units, a full three years before Super Mario Bros. was released.
I don't get why some people get so upset over 3D Mario games. I mean, Mario Galaxy sold like what, 10 million? I know most devs would be ecstatic if their games sold a fraction of that.
Sure 2D Mario sells more, but that doesn't mean 3D Mario's somehow bad. Besides, it's not like Nintendo didn't make NSMB or NSMBW, or isn't making a 2D Mario for both WiiU and 3DS.
Nintendo Network ID: Cheebee 3DS Code: 2320 - 6113 - 9046



| RolStoppable said: Some choice quotes: Let me introduce to you my villain. It is neither a he or she but an it. My arch nemesis, the Anti-Malstrom, who only wishes harm and destruction on gaming. The Anti-Malstrom somehow got hold of Doc Brown’s time machine/deLorean. It goes back to the year 1985, removes Super Mario Brothers from the Space Time continuum, and then travels back to the present. (...) The call for 2d Mario is not a call for a specific game. It is also a call for a foundational stone so a market exists so these other games can get made. (...) This is why I want a New Legend of Zelda. Not only do I want it for the game New Legend of Zelda could be, I want it because of the other Zelda-esque games it will spawn due to the market it makes.
It is not just that Nintendo makes 3d Mario and their finances decline while making 2d Mario and their finances increase. Gaming, as a medium, grows with 2d Mario. Gaming, as a medium, declines with 3d Mario.
Miyamoto appears in this post to say, “But if we combine 2d Mario and 3d Mario, we can compromise and everyone wins.” When food and poison compromises, which is the victor?
Read the full blog post here. |
There is a HUGE flaw in the article - and that is ignoring evidence.
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62,043 | 5,813,358 | 23 |
Also, Super Mario 3D Land was a key product in ressurecting 3DS from a near death situation; it helped accelerate 3DS sales to the point where it became the fastest selling year 1 console in history.
There are also releases of 2D Zelda games, and they weren't very successful. While they are interesting, they are clearly inferior products; this is different from 2D and 3D Mario where they are different types of games - in the case of Zelda, it is the same type of game, just with many more limitations. That is, unless there is something done like Zelda 2: Adventure of Link - that might actually be fairly interesting; but I doubt it would be as successful as a 3D Zelda.
I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.
| mike_intellivision said: What does Malstrom do for a living? I ask because it seems as if he wants to be an analyst and got something right once, which may disqualify him, but he must do something else because no one can live from the revenue of free Word Press posts. Mike from Morgantown |
I dont know anything about this guy except that he plays Nintendo but think I saw one picture (or video ?) and read once some blog article because it was linked here. I am not sure why exactly but I had a feeling he was a spoiled hipster child with rich parents afterwards.
Malstrom doesn't hate 3D Mario so much as he hates the attention and effort put into it. 2D Mario, for what it's worth, created a market for 2D side-scrolling/platforming that wasn't there before. The fact that Nintendo acts so completely divorced from 2D Mario is why there is such a small market for 2D gaming at retail now. New Super Mario Bros. Wii was, to be paraphrasing from him, a middle finger to the Video Game industry. It also showed that not only does 2D Mario have a much stronger market than its 3D comtemporaries, it ultimately makes the market for which less than stellar yet ambitious games inspired by it to sell. I can definitely see why Malstrom, and the market at large, would be frustrated by the fact that 2D Mario is treated so poorly and 3D Mario is treated like the breadwinner it isn't.
Pixel Art can be fun.
| Cheebee said: I don't get why some people get so upset over 3D Mario games. I mean, Mario Galaxy sold like what, 10 million? I know most devs would be ecstatic if their games sold a fraction of that. Sure 2D Mario sells more, but that doesn't mean 3D Mario's somehow bad. Besides, it's not like Nintendo didn't make NSMB or NSMBW, or isn't making a 2D Mario for both WiiU and 3DS. |
His response would be that they're only making those 2D Mario games for 3DS and Wii U because they've had to learn the lesson (again) of what happens when they don't make those games (i.e. low hardware sales).
I personally believe that those 2D Mario games were inevitable after the success of the two NSMB games, and that the lack of an early 3DS announcement was more down to them strategically planning when it would release after having MK7 and M3DL last Christmas. I don't think it's a coincidence that the 3DS 2D Mario game is likely to release in the middle of the likely window for a first 3DS revision.
But now I'll probably get told I'm giving Nintendo far too much credit for their ability to forward plan...

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Gaming as a medium increases with 2D Mario and declines with 3D Mario?
What about when gaming as a medium grew in the days of the PS1 and PS2? Was this not in the same time frame where we had the shift from 2D to 3D Mario?
I think he is crazy is he truly believes that gaming is fully reliant on just Nintendo and Mario, because we have enough to show that this is not the case. Maybe he should have said that gaming for Nintendo rises and falls with 2D and 3D Marios since the darkest days for Nintendo in terms of marketshare were the days the medium grew.
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RolStoppable said:
The point is that Super Mario Bros. spawns other awesome games while 3D Mario spawns virtually nothing. |
People actually believe if there were no Super Mario Bros, there would of never EVER been any vertically scrolling titles involving a mascot? Pacland preceeded Super Mario Bros, as did Moon Patrol and Jungle Hunt. Way overstating things there by Malstrom.
As far as 3D Mario goes, Mario 64 and Tomb Raiders kicked off how to do out current series of third-person action titles we have now, right down to Gears of War? Impact is not as large as Super Mario Bros, but the videogame industry is more mature.
And the food and poison analogy is flawed. Alcohol is a poison as you can die from it in too concentrated doses. Limited doses scan help. You can dilute a number of things and it is ok. So, take a concept, and dilute it enough, and it becomes acceptable, which is what Mario Land 3D seems like to me.
Heck, we need water and you can drown from it, so even something real good can be harmful if not weakened enough.