It has to be random if it's not determined, that is the basic logic I'm talking about.

And the free will cannot be random or determined if it wants to remain free.

I never said that and if I did , I do apologize.

Whatever the actions of a person was from the past and from what they do now both conflict with each other, and the possibilities are endless in a sense, it can be considered random or not depending on who and what is affected by it.

Everything that happens there is a reason for it, whether that reason was intentional or by random, depends on the person who is affected by it and therefore would result in that person to act upon the situation.

But... If you believe that every action we make are completely shaped by the past, then the present (which shapes the future) is determined, and so is the future.

I obviously cannot correctly answer that but yes, I believe that everything is determined.

My point by this thread is though that I see two options:

1. Everything is determined

2. Randomness shapes our and nature's actions 

In any case, we do not shape our future (using free will). It's either determined or random.

I think you're stretching to be honest.

Free will sure lets me do some random shit if I so choose. It also allows me to fully think something out before I do it, and just because I think something out extensively today and perform it next week doesn't make next weeks action determined. Yes, it was determined in a sense because I decided on it. It was that free will of mine that brought the idea to light and I did something with it.

I decide to walk out of work in the next 2 minutes and walking to my car I just decide to freak the fuck out and scream and run like an idiot.

Who makes that decision? You do know I can do that if I want to right?

I decide to walk out of work in the next 2 minutes and walking to my car I just decide to freak the fuck out and scream and run like an idiot.

Who makes that decision? You do know I can do that if I want to right?

I asked how you feel. You can only answer a question like that correctly :P there is no wrong its predetermined

Now I disagree that things are that simple. If you can accept such a thing as randomness why can't you accept free will?

You believe in two extremes but no middle ground. you are saying that all thoughts, emotion and creativity are all physics everything preset to do what it will do and some random events shaping the way. you may no know this is what you are arguing, but you are denying everyone their humanity. If we are already doing to do all we shall do, we are nothing more that the laws of the universe acting out.

Something I am aware of though is a belief like that is complete. There is nothing you can't explain. All things will fit into random or predetermined. You may not be able to give the details on the predetermination with how many forces are acting on everything at once. With how many action and interaction are taking place, but you don't need to.

I find it amusing in fact that you believe you were predetermined to come up with that belief. While I believe it is your choice to have that belief.

If I were to think like you I would find everything pointless and probably kill myself. So many thing that happen would just have happened for no reason other than that's how it would be with the randomness involved.  So I believe differently because I choose to and because I choose to I can be a better person. You may dismiss all that as physics and chemicals, but if people lived thinking that nothing mattered I see a world where people life not worrying about consequences only living for enjoying the moment. After all weren't they predetermined to anyway?

Is anything truly random though? We could just as well counter your argument with the exact opposite by saying free will shapes the randomness.