I actually think this is a bad move for PS4.

Microsoft will force developers to create their multiplat games to be on par with the PS4 so the PS4's games graphics would be dumbed down to match Xbox Next's graphics.

Unless developers start requiring you have the extra power to have the full featured game or even play the game.  Then you start splitting the userbase.

woa that's a lot of consoles you have around - I can't even keep up with all the games I bought for my PS3 (and especially those I got through PS+)

I still remember a few choice words from console gamers that made me laugh last night. "PC gaming is so complicated and its nothing but patches and fixes and internet stuff going wrong. Consoles are easy, you pop in the game and play."

Well, I was going to play Gran Turismo 5 on my PS3 last night, I hadn't played it for several months. Here's what happened step-by step;

1: Start the game, it tells me of updates being required to start up. Fair enough, I'm used to that by now.

2: It actually starts downloading the updates, there are six of them and one of them is 1190MB... There are six updates... Six!

3: After about two hours the updates were downloaded and installed (I have a 25Mbit line so that's not an issue, PSN network seems awfully slow, my PC downloads and work go at about 3.1-3.2MB per second steadily).

4: Start the game; "Do you want to log into the PSN network?" Yes.

5: You can't you silly bitch, you need a system update.

6: FINE! Exit game, update system, new version found, downloading and installing.

7: 35 minutes later and its done.

8: Start the game. "Do you want to log into the PSN network?" Yes.

9: Too bad, your password is no longer valid after we fudged up the security last year. Go fix it.

10: Exit game, log onto PSN. "Enter new password." I do.

11: Confirm. You need to accept the terms of use again. Despite being the very same account and man. FINE DAMMIT! Accept!

12: You may now log in. Didn't I just log in when they made me sign the terms and showed me the login screen and I pressed "login"?!?!

13: No, log in again, it actually worked.

14: Start game and actually play.

15: Great times.

Add to the list; unfinished games that don't work at all (Skyrim), lousy ports and crossplatform development, steep pricing, poor online, horribly long development times, cancelled projects left and right, shitty action games and ruining of entire genres to please adolescent kids, expensive games and accessories and an interface that wants to make your hair gray and you have yourself a merry time indeed.

If next generation goes anything like this one, I might actually do something I have never done before; sit the entire console generation out and stick to PC only.

ps3 and xbox 360 have GPUs based on high end GPUs, why will PS4 or Xbox 720 be different... based does not mean equal... my point in using the 7950 as a example has to be with the number of processing units and not so much with memory bus, (witch the 386 bit used in the card is not needed IMO), GPU clock; with that lowered a bit, the number of GPUs usable from the production process will be greater (meaning cheaper overall). this way games could have more things on screen versus the the need to push over the full hd resolution and the screen refreshing speed.
Xenos for example is based in a r500 ati GPU but moded to have more unified shaders than the rest of the r500 family. here if AMD start with a already high count processing units will be easier to moded it to the console needs (more processing units, less GPU speed and lower memory bus)

this could be packed in a 120 whatt envelope by mid year 2013 (time when full production of Orbis will start)

No worries mate, with going to a standard CPU/GPU format the PS4 will be Xbox 360 backwards compatible.

Thinking about having no PS3 BC means I will delay getting a PS4 for a long time, given there's a ton of PS3 games I will want to get through and it'll take a few years to do it the rate I clear games these days. Eventually though a PS4 will become justifieable and the PS3 can be consigned to the bedroom as the dedicated 2 Blu-ray player.

Not sure what's meant by locking games to a PSN acct. Does that mean multiple accounts on one PS4 will require multiple purchases of the unlock code? If that's the case then buying used is totally the way to go, less over all lay out of money for a multi-user household.

I'm pretty sure it just means that the account that downloaded it needs to be signed in, in order to start the game.

It's still shit, but I guess multiplayer with different accounts shouldn't be a problem.

Play GT5 tomorrow and give us a run down of how many steps it takes to play it then, just because you haven't logged onto your PS3 for the last 4 months at least, isn't exactly a fair example of how you have to download patch after patch to play a game.

It would be like me saying the exact same thing about my 360 which hasn't been turned on for nearly a year and then complaining that the numereous patches are taking the piss.

My main complaint is with the structure, interface and unbearably slow servers as well as fidgety online. The amount it took me to finally get to play was a lot longer than it takes me to wipe the drive, re-install windows, drivers and my games on most PC's and its unacceptable. The fact that I haven't played the game for some months is irrelevant, the update system is silly, especially since you can't even perform it as a background action and do other things on your console while you wait.

Consoles are "put in game and play" at heart, they are moving farther and farther away from this and are essentially becoming PC's. PC's with bad controllers, poor hardware, clunky interface and a slew of mindless action games (which are expensive). And don't get me started on DLC...

Do you honestly believe that any action performed on your console should take hours (save for playing games or watching an entire movie, that is)? Can you honestly defend that?

lol i will play battlefield 3 on my pc tomorrow do you know how many steps it will take to play it then? start pc which is in stand by mode - type in the password - going to the battlefield tab in my browser - push "refresh and save filter" - open one of the found servers - push "join server". 4 clicks with my mouse, one click with my thumb to start the pc and few buttons on my keyboard because of the windows password.

and if i have to downlaod a patch on my pc (which starts automatically or with a short question after the game start) or on my console doesn't make it better on any of both systems.

i will start empire: total war now, you know what i have to do? push the steam button - push the "library" tab in steam (i believe it will start there so i don't have to do it), push the game in the list which i want to play - push "start game".

and the installation of a game is really nothing special, just open the drive, put the disc in and say "start installation" on the pop up window. or search for the game on steam and download it from there...