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Forums - Sony - Rumour: PS4 to feature AMD GPU a gen ahead of nextbox

Viper1 on 29 March 2012
sergiodaly said:

ps3 and xbox 360 have GPUs based on high end GPUs, why will PS4 or Xbox 720 be different... based does not mean equal... my point in using the 7950 as a example has to be with the number of processing units and not so much with memory bus, (witch the 386 bit used in the card is not needed IMO), GPU clock; with that lowered a bit, the number of GPUs usable from the production process will be greater (meaning cheaper overall). this way games could have more things on screen versus the the need to push over the full hd resolution and the screen refreshing speed.
Xenos for example is based in a r500 ati GPU but moded to have more unified shaders than the rest of the r500 family. here if AMD start with a already high count processing units will be easier to moded it to the console needs (more processing units, less GPU speed and lower memory bus)

this could be packed in a 120 whatt envelope by mid year 2013 (time when full production of Orbis will start)

Again, you are missing the point I made above.  TDP for an HD 7950 is 180 watts.  TDP for the X1800 XL the Xenos is based on was 60 watts. 

The X1800 XL was also very mid range.    It would be comporable to the HD 7750 of today.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

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ethomaz on 29 March 2012

JazzyJeez said:

Play GT5 tomorrow and give us a run down of how many steps it takes to play it then, just because you haven't logged onto your PS3 for the last 4 months at least, isn't exactly a fair example of how you have to download patch after patch to play a game.

The mojor issue is when you play GT5 the first time in the PS3 (not the XL Edition)... it's a new game for download... all patchs (1.01 til 2.05) together is almost 3GB for download.

I am thinking of buying the XL edition to not have this problem again (from 2.02 to 2.05 is just 200MB patch).



crissindahouse on 29 March 2012
Viper1 said:
sergiodaly said:

ps3 and xbox 360 have GPUs based on high end GPUs, why will PS4 or Xbox 720 be different... based does not mean equal... my point in using the 7950 as a example has to be with the number of processing units and not so much with memory bus, (witch the 386 bit used in the card is not needed IMO), GPU clock; with that lowered a bit, the number of GPUs usable from the production process will be greater (meaning cheaper overall). this way games could have more things on screen versus the the need to push over the full hd resolution and the screen refreshing speed.
Xenos for example is based in a r500 ati GPU but moded to have more unified shaders than the rest of the r500 family. here if AMD start with a already high count processing units will be easier to moded it to the console needs (more processing units, less GPU speed and lower memory bus)

this could be packed in a 120 whatt envelope by mid year 2013 (time when full production of Orbis will start)

Again, you are missing the point I made above.  TDP for an HD 7950 is 180 watts.  TDP for the X1800 XL the Xenos is based on was 60 watts. 

The X1800 XL was also very mid range.    It would be comporable to the HD 7750 of today.

not really sure about that but i believe i always read the equivalent to 360's gpu was the X1800 XT and few parts of 1900? (but i really don't know just what i read few times)

btw the xl came out for 449€ and the xt for 549€ here end of 2005. not speaking about wattage and only about the price, people who think a card costing 500€ atm (like the gtx 680) would mean a console would cost above 1000€ end of 2013 should realize how expensive the cards were in 2005 as xbox 360 came out.



Play4Fun on 29 March 2012
sergiodaly said:
 

ps3 and xbox 360 have GPUs based on high end GPUs, why will PS4 or Xbox 720 be different... based does not mean equal... my point in using the 7950 as a example has to be with the number of processing units and not so much with memory bus, (witch the 386 bit used in the card is not needed IMO), GPU clock; with that lowered a bit, the number of GPUs usable from the production process will be greater (meaning cheaper overall). this way games could have more things on screen versus the the need to push over the full hd resolution and the screen refreshing speed.
Xenos for example is based in a r500 ati GPU but moded to have more unified shaders than the rest of the r500 family. here if AMD start with a already high count processing units will be easier to moded it to the console needs (more processing units, less GPU speed and lower memory bus)

this could be packed in a 120 whatt envelope by mid year 2013 (time when full production of Orbis will start)


Did high end GPUs back in 2004/5 consume 200 watts? No. What PS3 and 360 did back then have no bearing on this.

You are saying that all they have to do is cut down features of the 7950 GPU to get it to 120 watts (PS3 and 360 GPUs are around 90 watts BTW). The only way to do that would be to cut it down until it is basically a 7770/7850 which are 80/130 watts respectively. Why not just base it on those GPUs from the beginning instead of wasting silicon, as viper said.



Panama on 29 March 2012

Getting deja vu. The numbers 5, 9 and 9 keep appearing before me but I can't figure out what they're trying to indicate.



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sergiodaly on 29 March 2012
Viper1 said:
sergiodaly said:

ps3 and xbox 360 have GPUs based on high end GPUs, why will PS4 or Xbox 720 be different... based does not mean equal... my point in using the 7950 as a example has to be with the number of processing units and not so much with memory bus, (witch the 386 bit used in the card is not needed IMO), GPU clock; with that lowered a bit, the number of GPUs usable from the production process will be greater (meaning cheaper overall). this way games could have more things on screen versus the the need to push over the full hd resolution and the screen refreshing speed.
Xenos for example is based in a r500 ati GPU but moded to have more unified shaders than the rest of the r500 family. here if AMD start with a already high count processing units will be easier to moded it to the console needs (more processing units, less GPU speed and lower memory bus)

this could be packed in a 120 whatt envelope by mid year 2013 (time when full production of Orbis will start)

Again, you are missing the point I made above.  TDP for an HD 7950 is 180 watts.  TDP for the X1800 XL the Xenos is based on was 60 watts. 

The X1800 XL was also very mid range.    It would be comporable to the HD 7750 of today.

XL and XT had the same GPU chip, only clocked at different speed... xenos had 9 times more MOperations/s processing power than the XL/XT chip due to the addition of extra processing units... it had a higher clock speed (700 against the 500 of the XL or the 625 of the XT) the TDP was almost for sure around 100 watt because of those modifications. XT had a 105 watt TDP.

if the 7850 has a 130 watt TDP that could be the base for Orbis GPU as well... but my guess is still a Tahiti based GPU.

we will see soon enough!

Proudest Platinums - BF: Bad Company, Killzone 2 , Battlefield 3 and GTA4

disolitude on 29 March 2012
Viper1 said:
disolitude said:
VGKing said:
disolitude said:

Here is a way for Microsoft and Sony to sell gazillion next gen consoles and come out at affordable price point and still satisfy the power/performance hungry users.

Launch Xbox 720/PS4 with lower tier hardware and 299 price point. All current gen and next gen games are compatible with it, with next gen games running 30 fps and 720p.

However allow enthusiasts to SLI/Crossfire 2 their consoles together for hefty performance boost. Making next gen games 1080p and up to 60 FPS with other goodies like dual screen support.

You want power, fork out 600 bucks and buy 2 consoles. Problem solved.


UGH. No. That whole point of a console is to avoid stuff like that. There's a reason PC gaming isn't mainstream..its too complicated and you never know if your computer is up to date and able to run that new game at good speeds.

There is nothing complicated about it.

Nintendo 64 had the RAM cart which you was essentially the same thing as did Sega Saturn. An add on which you connect to make existing games look better.

Adding a RAM pack is one thing.   Dual linking 2 consoles to increase performance is a totally different beast.    The whole master/slave thing would be one problem.    Opening up console A at the commands from console B is asking for all kinds of hacking problems.    Programming your game to allow for it just doubles your QA load and expect far more patches than we already deal with.

I don't see it being that hard to utilize the GPU and possibly RAM from another console to boost performance. I mean Sony already has something like this available in the Vaio Z laptop -http://www.tomshardware.com/news/light-peak-thunderbolt-vaio-radeon,13019.html

SLI/Crossfire setups are seeing almost 100% scaling in modern games so it would all be down to the software and drivers. If Microsoft can provide a really good SDK which allows devs to create a game for a single xbox720, which automatically gets bumped up for dual Xbox720s in SLI/crossfire...I don't see any fragmentation and I see this taking off with the hardcore crowd.



JazzyJeez on 29 March 2012
ethomaz said:

JazzyJeez said:

Play GT5 tomorrow and give us a run down of how many steps it takes to play it then, just because you haven't logged onto your PS3 for the last 4 months at least, isn't exactly a fair example of how you have to download patch after patch to play a game.

The mojor issue is when you play GT5 the first time in the PS3 (not the XL Edition)... it's a new game for download... all patchs (1.01 til 2.05) together is almost 3GB for download.

I am thinking of buying the XL edition to not have this problem again (from 2.02 to 2.05 is just 200MB patch).

It's irrelevant the size of the patch, I merely had issue with him implying that its usual for someone to have to go through that many steps to play a game, which simply isn't the case.

I'm not defending the problems with console gaming, we all know they exist, but to grossly exaggerate to prove a point makes his arguement weaker than it may have been.

The rest of the comment about the games, network and various other totally unrelated items I didn't touch on because frankly it could have been summarised as I think the PS3 is shit.



http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/invest/index.html

sergiodaly on 29 March 2012
Play4Fun said:
sergiodaly said:
 

ps3 and xbox 360 have GPUs based on high end GPUs, why will PS4 or Xbox 720 be different... based does not mean equal... my point in using the 7950 as a example has to be with the number of processing units and not so much with memory bus, (witch the 386 bit used in the card is not needed IMO), GPU clock; with that lowered a bit, the number of GPUs usable from the production process will be greater (meaning cheaper overall). this way games could have more things on screen versus the the need to push over the full hd resolution and the screen refreshing speed.
Xenos for example is based in a r500 ati GPU but moded to have more unified shaders than the rest of the r500 family. here if AMD start with a already high count processing units will be easier to moded it to the console needs (more processing units, less GPU speed and lower memory bus)

this could be packed in a 120 whatt envelope by mid year 2013 (time when full production of Orbis will start)


Did high end GPUs back in 2004/5 consume 200 watts? No. What PS3 and 360 did back then have no bearing on this.

You are saying that all they have to do is cut down features of the 7950 GPU to get it to 120 watts (PS3 and 360 GPUs are around 90 watts BTW). The only way to do that would be to cut it down until it is basically a 7770/7850 which are 80/130 watts respectively. Why not just base it on those GPUs from the beginning instead of wasting silicon, as viper said.

i can see the first batch of next gen consoles go as high as 250 watt... 200 is the ideal imo but sometimes they go a little over board. and its not cut down... my point is to keep all the 1792 processing untis, but with slower clock speed, less memory speed and a smaller memory bus (256 instead of 384). if they use 600MHz instead of the 800MHz used in the reference card, the TDP we are talking about is achievable.
also... less speed in the GPU core can bring up the number of usable chips in the production process bringing down the price per chip.

Proudest Platinums - BF: Bad Company, Killzone 2 , Battlefield 3 and GTA4

Play4Fun on 29 March 2012
sergiodaly said:
Play4Fun said:
sergiodaly said:
 

ps3 and xbox 360 have GPUs based on high end GPUs, why will PS4 or Xbox 720 be different... based does not mean equal... my point in using the 7950 as a example has to be with the number of processing units and not so much with memory bus, (witch the 386 bit used in the card is not needed IMO), GPU clock; with that lowered a bit, the number of GPUs usable from the production process will be greater (meaning cheaper overall). this way games could have more things on screen versus the the need to push over the full hd resolution and the screen refreshing speed.
Xenos for example is based in a r500 ati GPU but moded to have more unified shaders than the rest of the r500 family. here if AMD start with a already high count processing units will be easier to moded it to the console needs (more processing units, less GPU speed and lower memory bus)

this could be packed in a 120 whatt envelope by mid year 2013 (time when full production of Orbis will start)


Did high end GPUs back in 2004/5 consume 200 watts? No. What PS3 and 360 did back then have no bearing on this.

You are saying that all they have to do is cut down features of the 7950 GPU to get it to 120 watts (PS3 and 360 GPUs are around 90 watts BTW). The only way to do that would be to cut it down until it is basically a 7770/7850 which are 80/130 watts respectively. Why not just base it on those GPUs from the beginning instead of wasting silicon, as viper said.

i can see the first batch of next gen consoles go as high as 250 watt... 200 is the ideal imo but sometimes they go a little over board. and its not cut down... my point is to keep all the 1792 processing untis, but with slower clock speed, less memory speed and a smaller memory bus (256 instead of 384). if they use 600MHz instead of the 800MHz used in the reference card, the TDP we are talking about is achievable.
also... less speed in the GPU core can bring up the number of usable chips in the production process bringing down the price per chip.

 

So basically a 7770 or 7850 based GPU? Got it.

And neither Sony orMS are  going to make consoles that are hotter, noisier or bigger than launch PS3 or 360.

In fact, they are more likely to make them cooler and a bit smaller than those consoles were.