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Forums - Politics - The demise of Europe.

There's simply a lack of unemployment here.
We need to get poorer fast !



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I live in the UK. Believe me it's one of the most multi cultural and integrated countries in the World (something my American girlfriend has really noticed).

I think although you can't deny that an ageing population is going to have implications. The biggest issue is actually the Euro currency. It has created an environment whereby Germany and France especially, are enjoying a devalued currency, at the expense of the countries such as Greece, Spain, Portugal and so on.

Typically in the economic state the southern European states are in, with control over the currency the main thing they would do is devalue to make themselves more competitive and enable them to get their economies growing again. However as the European Central Bank has to cater for far more countries than just those in need of devaluation this is not possible.

How are Germany and France etc benefiting? The Euro is being devalued by the southern countries, giving them far more competitive exports/industries than their previous currencies would have given them. This is why it's so painful to see the suffering going on especially in Greece with severe austerity, while the rhetroics from the wealthier european countries has been "you've had your fun, now you have to pay for it" because it's exactly their suffering that is giving the northern European countries such prosperity.

How does the UK fit into this? Our biggest importer is the Euro Zone, therefore while the Euro zone is faltering, we have very little room for maneuver ourselves. All this has nothing to do with immigration/aging population. It's simply a climate of various governments own creation and we are currently suffering a very severe hangover from it.

We've also had previous administrations (particularly Labour in the UK) spending far more money than they actually had coming in for a prolonged period of time which has just come head at the same time meaning at the time we need to increase public spending the most to try and stabalise unemployment, there is no money left to do this and so the public sector is seeing cuts at exactly the same time the private sector has been shedding job as a result of the 2008 global recession (actually caused by the American sub-prime mortgage fiasco, nothing to do with the UK)

I actually think the suggestion of more babies could be very distructive as we're at a point where the world population is going to hit a tipping point where it is too big for the planet to sustain. We truly will be in terminal demise as a (human) race at that point.

Anyway they're my thoughts from a UK perspective. (I'm also a business graduate btw so it's interesting to see different perspectives)



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

aavidbacon said:
kowenicki said:

Where do you get the idea that Europe doesnt like immigration...

Bit out of date, but gives you the general idea.  Europe has the largest immigration for any continent.

 


Europe is starting a movement to the right, with an clear agenda of closing the borders to new immigrants. Merkel said, not long ago, that multiculturalism has failed as a political path. There's a growing antagonism against immigrants and that's what I want to discuss. I've never said that Europe doesn't have immigrants. If that was the case, there wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

To Christor:  why don't you try and open the doors to immigrants closer to the european culture, like South and Central America. The main problem here, I reckon, is the unwilliness of both sides to integrate. Most immigrants are so allien towards the new culture that they create a country inside a country, which is also bad, since it prevents the new group to profit from the culture that produce the european society in the first place.

And why do you think Europe is starting a (slight) movement to the right? Is it without reason?

With the mass immigration and rapid change in many european countries it's only natural that the native people feel threatened. In Sweden's third largest city, Malmö, of all young people (people under the age of 20) native Swedes are already less than 50%. Call me xenophobic but I don't like it. I don't like that my own people becomes a minority in its own country in just one generation.

What does Europe gain from immigration? There's 25 million unemployed europeans already. How can newcomers contribute to a society with a severe inability to create jobs to its native citizens? It's ridicilous. The fears of an ageing population and those wonderful economic dynamics from having a young population and large migration flows are just myths propagated by people with a multicultural political agenda.

(to debate pure asylym seekers is a slightly different thing because those people are welcomed from a humane basis, not an economical one like the argument in the OP)

America has been able to swallow hordes of migrants because two hundred years ago it was practically empty and the 1 million or so native indians in North America were easily dispatched. All those migrants made it a powerful country. But Europe is already filled with people and economically advanced.



MikeRox said:

...

How are Germany and France etc benefiting? The Euro is being devalued by the southern countries, giving them far more competitive exports/industries than their previous currencies would have given them. This is why it's so painful to see the suffering going on especially in Greece with severe austerity, while the rhetroics from the wealthier european countries has been "you've had your fun, now you have to pay for it" because it's exactly their suffering that is giving the northern European countries such prosperity.

...


i'm from germany and even when we have to pay alot to greece and yeah, german creditors gave up a lot of money percentual it's true that we are profiting from that a lot as well. i believe german exports grew 50 billion just because of the low euro.

at least i don't know if we are profiting more or if it hurts us but at least for germany it's really not as bad as some newspapers try to tell us^^



crissindahouse said:

i'm from germany and even when we have to pay alot to greece and yeah, german creditors gave up a lot of money percentual it's true that we are profiting from that a lot as well. i believe german exports grew 50 billion just because of the low euro.

at least i don't know if we are profiting more or if it hurts us but at least for germany it's really not as bad as some newspapers try to tell us^^


I think it's really helped your manufacturing sector. Some of it is certainly being paid back in bailouts now though. That said we're doing the bailouts too. Btw when I say "countries" I'm just referring to the governments not the population :)

As for the newspapers, glad to see it's not just our papers saying absolutely everything is doom and gloom.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

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Christhor said:
Player1x3 said:
Christhor said:
It's better for the people to die out, than for them to lose all of their culture and history. I say we just stop and wait for the end, not letting any immigrants into our countries.


ugh, what? when people die out, their culture dies with them. its only logical,

That's exactly what I said. It's better for a people to die with their culture and history, than to live on without it.

Really? I'd happily be a part of any culture.

And I don't know how quickly you expect things to happen... we still have cultural influences from empires and civilizations from thousands of years ago. A culture won't be "destroyed" within your life time, or you're childs, or your child's child's. In fact, what will happen is the slow mix of cultures, and your future generations will consider that their culture.