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Forums - Gaming Discussion - New iPad and PS Vita specs

superchunk said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
 

So what is the OP for then? Just a comparison?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your OP was implying that the new Ipad will be on par with VITA in terms of specs and this would mean Ipad games would be on-par if not better graphically than VITA games, the post I made is just telling you that whilst on paper, the new Ipad may seem to be close to on-par (the CPU really isn't btw) with VITA, but when it comes to gaming, it's far behind. And although tablets have the advantage of yearly upgrades, devs on VITA will also be sqeezing more and more out of it as the years go on, and as we're on a gaming site, I'm sure we both know how big the improvements can be over a few years on the same system graphically. It'll take quite a few years for the average game on tablets to look as good as even the launch games on VITA. 

As stated in the actual text of the OP, its a reference to show how quickly Vita is getting lapped by smartphones/tablets and further support for the thread I linked regarding my thoughts on why Vita should have been a smartphone.

By the time Vita is perfecting its game builds, smartphones and tablets will be far superior in tech. Then the only difference will be the controls and that could all be fixed had Sony made it a smartphone in the first place where it could keep up with the tech quicker all while providing a lower consumer entry price and due to carrier kickbacks, profit day one.


VITA will be perfecting its game builds in 4 or 5 years, so that is PLENTY of time, and this thread doesn't show that the VITA is getting lapped quickly by tablets, it's not. It'll be another few years before that happens (look back to my first post for why).

If the VITA was a smartphone it would be a lot more expensive to manufacture and in some cases to sell, have a lot more competition including the phones SONY already make, the system wouldn't be optimized for gaming, it would have less core games and the games would look worse if it ran android, if it didn't run android it would fail as it would be missing thousands of apps. And lastly, the controls would be crap, you can't get the controls VITA has on a smartphone, it is far too big for a smartphone, unless you're wearing MC hammer pants, it's not going in your pocket. 



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The vita is a better handheld gaming device ...hell even the original psp is better tha the new iPad ....ps Im writing this from my iPad 2 :~D



brendude13 said:

All consoles tend to be considered dated a year after they come out, Crysis released just one year after the PS3 came out and put the graphics of console games to shame, still, not many people cared. I think after the huge successes that the PS2 and the Wii were, SONY, Ninty (they got the point way back in 2006) and MS have finally gotten the point that the mass market doesn't care about how powerful hardware is. Putting lower power hardware into their systems will result in a lower price, a higher profit and more regular generation cycles.

I agree about making the Vita like a smartphone though, they shouldn't market it as one, but they should add smartphone capabilities. When I played the Vita last week, I was surprised by how much it felt like a smartphone, the user interface and reliance on the touch screen made it feel like an iPod / iPhone. I'm ashamed to say I loved it though, using the touchscreen felt so fluid and the UI was streamlined, if you don't want a certain application or game on the home screen, remove it. The UI could be extremely useful at integrating applications.

Sony should actually make some use of the 3G and include the ability to make phone calls in the 3G package, as well as release applications on the PS store, Google Earth was a great start. Gaming machine first, multi-tasking device (I refuse to call it a smart phone ) second.

I like your home console / pc comparison and I agree with it overall.

The markets are merging both in portable media as well as home entertainment. For decades PCs never dominated gaming over consoles due to physical separation of the devices (TV vs computer room/monitor), simplicity of control/setup, and local community play.

For portables it was simply that similar portable devices just didn't exist. However, that distinction is quickly evaporating as mobile media devices are quickly evolving to be the be all solution for just about anything. Even controls are handled by the fact that my Android phone can sync with my bluetooth PS3 or Wii controllers. For home systems this will also become more apparent over the next generation as devices like iTV, Google TV, and eventually Windows8 push full computing to the front room TV with simplistic ease. In reality this end is exactly what MS wanted when it  created the Xbox brand. MS never wanted to create a stand alone game console. Xbox is simply a beachhead for PCs in the front room since Windows Media Center with PCs never took off.

Sony's only issue with this whole scenario is the OS. It doesn't have one. However, it can utilize kings of other worlds. It can use Android to not only provide a clear market leader experience, but also tailor it to suite its PlayStation and other unique brands. All the while not providing too much money back to its competitor, MS.

I think Vita will sell far less than the PSP overall and it will be the last dedicated portable console from Sony. However, it shouldn't have been if it were a smartphone/tablet like device as it would have given the potential to beachhead its own new market of core gaming in the more mass market portable media sphere.



Andrespetmonkey said:


VITA will be perfecting its game builds in 4 or 5 years, so that is PLENTY of time, and this thread doesn't show that the VITA is getting lapped quickly by tablets, it's not. It'll be another few years before that happens (look back to my first post for why).

If the VITA was a smartphone it would be a lot more expensive to manufacture and in some cases to sell, have a lot more competition including the phones SONY already make, the system wouldn't be optimized for gaming, it would have less core games and the games would look worse if it ran android, if it didn't run android it would fail as it would be missing thousands of apps. And lastly, the controls would be crap, you can't get the controls VITA has on a smartphone, it is far too big for a smartphone, unless you're wearing MC hammer pants, it's not going in your pocket. 


In 4 to 5 years, Vita will be dead.

In one year smartphones and tablets will have CPU/GPU combinations that are easily 2x the power of Vita.... add in a bluetooth controller or if Sony was smart enough, slider style phone with controls and Vita won't stand a chance.



superchunk said:
RolStoppable said:
superchunk said:
RolStoppable said:

Not going to change the outcome of failure, so there's not much of a point for me to get into an argument here.

What are you considering failure? My version would be profitable and sustainable.

Failure to compete with Nintendo. Making the Vita a phone would equal withdrawing from the handheld market.

Then we agree as that's exactly what I said they should do in my other thread. Sony won't survive the rise of smartphones/tablets as it is.

if sony won't survive thn nintendo won't either.... the 3DS is almost two generations behind vita hardware..... vita is capable of prudicing visuals on par with early ps3 titles.... besides graphics isn't the only thing going fr vta



 

mM
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superchunk said:
Andrespetmonkey said:


VITA will be perfecting its game builds in 4 or 5 years, so that is PLENTY of time, and this thread doesn't show that the VITA is getting lapped quickly by tablets, it's not. It'll be another few years before that happens (look back to my first post for why).

If the VITA was a smartphone it would be a lot more expensive to manufacture and in some cases to sell, have a lot more competition including the phones SONY already make, the system wouldn't be optimized for gaming, it would have less core games and the games would look worse if it ran android, if it didn't run android it would fail as it would be missing thousands of apps. And lastly, the controls would be crap, you can't get the controls VITA has on a smartphone, it is far too big for a smartphone, unless you're wearing MC hammer pants, it's not going in your pocket. 


In 4 to 5 years, Vita will be dead.

In one year smartphones and tablets will have CPU/GPU combinations that are easily 2x the power of Vita.... add in a bluetooth controller or if Sony was smart enough, slider style phone with controls and Vita won't stand a chance.

Maybe in 5 years VITA will be dying, but for the next 3 years at least, there is no better altenative for non-casual handheld gaming. (apart from maybe the other handheld that was released recently but that's down to preference).

Right. But will the system be dedicated and optimized for gaming? Will most games be core games? Will most games take advantage of the hardware? Will we see regular releases of big budget AAA games? Will all phone manufacturers AND developers support this hypothetical bluetooth controller? (Apple, one of the biggest players, certainly won't) No, no, no, no and no.



leo-j said:

if sony won't survive thn nintendo won't either.... the 3DS is almost two generations behind vita hardware..... vita is capable of prudicing visuals on par with early ps3 titles.... besides graphics isn't the only thing going fr vta

Nintendo has something Sony doesn't. Its the same thing that allowed Nintendo to always remain profitable, even when they only sold 25m Gamecubes.

Very highly demanded and quality first part software.

Sony's 1st party stuff isn't unique enough to carry their hardware. They require a lot of 3rd party support. Nintendo has proven over multiple generations it can not only survive on its own merits, but also dominate the entire market (Wii).

Nintendo's 1st party software will allow it to survive almost indefinitely.

I don't recall ever saying anything strictly about graphics.



superchunk said:
brendude13 said:

All consoles tend to be considered dated a year after they come out, Crysis released just one year after the PS3 came out and put the graphics of console games to shame, still, not many people cared. I think after the huge successes that the PS2 and the Wii were, SONY, Ninty (they got the point way back in 2006) and MS have finally gotten the point that the mass market doesn't care about how powerful hardware is. Putting lower power hardware into their systems will result in a lower price, a higher profit and more regular generation cycles.

I agree about making the Vita like a smartphone though, they shouldn't market it as one, but they should add smartphone capabilities. When I played the Vita last week, I was surprised by how much it felt like a smartphone, the user interface and reliance on the touch screen made it feel like an iPod / iPhone. I'm ashamed to say I loved it though, using the touchscreen felt so fluid and the UI was streamlined, if you don't want a certain application or game on the home screen, remove it. The UI could be extremely useful at integrating applications.

Sony should actually make some use of the 3G and include the ability to make phone calls in the 3G package, as well as release applications on the PS store, Google Earth was a great start. Gaming machine first, multi-tasking device (I refuse to call it a smart phone ) second.

I like your home console / pc comparison and I agree with it overall.

The markets are merging both in portable media as well as home entertainment. For decades PCs never dominated gaming over consoles due to physical separation of the devices (TV vs computer room/monitor), simplicity of control/setup, and local community play.

For portables it was simply that similar portable devices just didn't exist. However, that distinction is quickly evaporating as mobile media devices are quickly evolving to be the be all solution for just about anything. Even controls are handled by the fact that my Android phone can sync with my bluetooth PS3 or Wii controllers. For home systems this will also become more apparent over the next generation as devices like iTV, Google TV, and eventually Windows8 push full computing to the front room TV with simplistic ease. In reality this end is exactly what MS wanted when it  created the Xbox brand. MS never wanted to create a stand alone game console. Xbox is simply a beachhead for PCs in the front room since Windows Media Center with PCs never took off.

Sony's only issue with this whole scenario is the OS. It doesn't have one. However, it can utilize kings of other worlds. It can use Android to not only provide a clear market leader experience, but also tailor it to suite its PlayStation and other unique brands. All the while not providing too much money back to its competitor, MS.

I think Vita will sell far less than the PSP overall and it will be the last dedicated portable console from Sony. However, it shouldn't have been if it were a smartphone/tablet like device as it would have given the potential to beachhead its own new market of core gaming in the more mass market portable media sphere.

I see what you mean, but I just don't think dedicated gaming handheld are going to vanish into thin air. There is too much competition in the smart phone industry for the PS Vita to succeed as a smart phone, especially if its design doesn't drastically changes. There are still plenty of people out there who will still buy dedicated gaming handhelds, like the 3DS sales are showing. Adding the smartphone capabilities will just make it a more attractive purchase and they could be the decider for somebody who is on the fence about buying a smartphone, or a dedicated gaming handheld, and want something in the middle.



Andrespetmonkey said:

Maybe in 5 years VITA will be dying, but for the next 3 years at least, there is no better altenative for non-casual handheld gaming. (apart from maybe the other handheld that was released recently but that's down to preference).

Right. But will the system be dedicated and optimized for gaming? Will most games be core games? Will most games take advantage of the hardware? Will we see regular releases of big budget AAA games? Will all phone manufacturers AND developers support this hypothetical bluetooth controller? (Apple, one of the biggest players, certainly won't) No, no, no, no and no.

Today Google announced that by next year they will have a solid, seamless, and integrated gaming platform within their market for Android, Google TV, and Chrome. (all really being combined as same thing right now with Android 4)

Apple already has done that with iTunes and continues to progress with pushing its products as gaming platforms.

Over the last year 3rd parties have increased their support of iOS and to a lesser extent Android by a huge margin. Most AAA games have ports already for mobile and with far more powerful hardware here now and coming, expect these ports to be more and more like, if not identical, to their dedicated gaming cousins.

That only really leaves controls. Its already happening. OnLive provides dedicated console gaming with proper controls right now to iOS and Android with virtual controls or a bluetooth dedicated controller. Do you really think Apple and Google are so inept that they can't write SDK with this in mind? Hell, I know for a fact it already exists in Android since 2.3.

Also, why do you think MS never made a portable console? What do you think all the integration of Windows8 with Live is for?



brendude13 said:

I see what you mean, but I just don't think dedicated gaming handheld are going to vanish into thin air. There is too much competition in the smart phone industry for the PS Vita to succeed as a smart phone, especially if its design doesn't drastically changes. There are still plenty of people out there who will still buy dedicated gaming handhelds, like the 3DS sales are showing. Adding the smartphone capabilities will just make it a more attractive purchase and they could be the decider for somebody who is on the fence about buying a smartphone, or a dedicated gaming handheld, and want something in the middle.

3DS is selling because it lowered its price to well below new high-end smartphones and Nintendo software released. That is why Nintendo will continue to succeed.

Sony can't do either with Vita.