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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Not including HD-DVD is paying off again

MrMafoo said:
 

 

It's not about price, it's about value. If it was just price, the PS2 would outsell everything forever. There is a reason the x-box died at 25 million, and it had nothing to do with price.

MS has to come up with a reason to buy the 360 over the PS3. Price is not a good enough one. The future of the console is what matters.

For example, if in 6 months, every HD-DVD player went on sale for 30 bucks, how many do you think they would sell ;)

http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=XB&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=All&weeks=156


There are several reasons to buy a 360 over a PS3. Why would someone pay more for the same experience? Why not wait for the potential to be realized, then buy it? Potential is on thing - fruition is something completely different.

Even based on track record, the PS2 and the PS3 are completely different machines. One had a strong library, tons of exclusives and a jump on the Xbox. One has a library, few exclusives and a delayed start. Based on this alone, with different ingredients, you get different results. Put another way, you can have a killer recipe, but if you don't have the correct ingredients, brand be damned, but you will NOT have the same cake as described in the recipe. The PS3 may share some of the same features and characteristics of the PS2, but mind you, it's not the PS2, nor will it ever be.

The PS3 is a Playstation only in name. Without its core value, it's the best Blu Ray player on the market that happens to play games.

If the PS3 was released without BR, it would be a different ballgame altogether. 



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elnino334 said:
madskillz said:
MrMafoo said:
elnino334 said:
Spectrumglr said:
why everybody forget that back in November 2005 there wasn't ANY HD-DVD movie (first in June 2006: 8 months later) or HD-DVD player (launched by toshiba in April 2006: 6 months later)? MS simply couldn't lauch a console with an HD drive in November 2005...because it didn't exist.

Exactly! So is basically wait until Hd-Dvd was available or release the 360 a year ahead of the PS3 with the current drive at that point. I would say launching a year earlier has worked out for the best even if it doesn't have the greatest and best technology etc.


It looks now, like Sony will win this time around (vs the 360 anyway). Sales are higher, and the future looks brighter.

So it helped MS get a leg up for a year or two. It allowed them the ability to win a few battles. But in the end, they will lose the war. If it had a built-in HD-DVD, and better build quality, it might have won the war, even if it launched at the same time as the PS3.

 

You do realize that the 360 is currently in the lead, right? And based on the PS3 price point, and the looming price cut from MS, you'd have to be on some serious pimp juice to take the PS3 can overcome that lead anytime soon. I'd rather have a huge lead (7M) and a lower price point, than have to fight hard to try and even come close, and lose money in the process.

Unless MS and Ninny just stop making consoles, this chiseling by Sony into the 360's lead will take at least 10 years to top the 360's lead.

 


One thing I always found interesting is people not seeming to give credit to the 360 for being ahead especially by so many consoles. People seem to forget it was 100 mil vs 25-30 ps2 vs xbox so whos next gen system would you predict would be kicking butt right now? 360 being up by millions would not be the answer. This is why all those analysis had such crazy estimates and predictions etc. I mean they did make sense back then. Bottomline is the 360 is here to stay regardless of how the PS3 does.


Say that, elnino. It's like watching a football team, though they were champs last year, getting buried by a strong team the next year. If you are the winning team, you can rest your starters eventually, but you won't let up on the former champs. You know what they are capable of, but since you are on top, you can adjust your defense accordingly.

MS has been in the business of making money for ages. They know how to weather storms. It's a lot like stocks. The investors in for the long term won't gamble on the short-term gains and losses. They'll ride it out. Like MS. So what is Sony beat them a few weeks in the charts. They aren't worried. So what if Sony beats them one year. They know they can't win every battle, but they are in it to win it. Trust me, MS will do another price cut and erase their measly Sony gains.

This is spoken from a journalist and business man, not an Xbox fanboy, so if you wanna post and call me a fanboy, I will not respond to your rant. 



MrMafoo said:
Spectrumglr said:

oh, yes...higher sales...even if PS3 manages to sell 100k more units each week (almost impossible, but let's suppose) it'd take 1 year and a half to recover the 7.3M gap.

I don't have a crystal sphere but to me at this point winning the console war for Sony is not such an easy task...


I am not stating fact, just my opinion, so here it is:

At some point, when deciding what to buy (360/PS3), there will be such a clear winner, that buying the other would be stupid. It happened with the PS2 and XB.

When that day comes (and it will come), the sales gap between the two will be a lot more then 100k


And you are basing this on ... 

I have an Xbox and a PS2. I enjoy both of them. And I am a winner even if I went with my PS2 or with my Xbox. I love Fable, Halo and Halo 2, Counterstrike, Crimson Skies, and I am a fan of SOCOM, Ace Combat and other exclusives. The last gen made folks really pick sides. This generation, MS is the one in control. Reliability affects some potential customers, but not as many as folks think.

It's all about the games. Some folks love Ratchet and Clank, some love Bioshock and Mass Effect. It's not a stupid choice unless you are buying a console based on a brand.



MikeB said:

@ elnino334

One thing I always found interesting is people not seeming to give credit to the 360 for being ahead especially by so many consoles. People seem to forget it was 100 mil vs 25-30 ps2 vs xbox so whos next gen system would you predict would be kicking butt right now?


I don't think the console is that much ahead, especially considering Halo 3 is already on the market. Microsoft did a good job with making people upgrade to the 360 from the Xbox, this by completely dropping XBox game software support like a brick and by putting popular XBox franchices (and serving popular game gernes) onto the 360. But I would really be impressed if the 360 actually ever reaches a userbase of let's say 40 million. I think long term competition with the PS3 will be rough on the 360.

I also think the PS3 will remain viable as a product for a longer period of time.


Halo 3 is awesome, but the 360 is by no means a one-trick pony. The PS3 still needs exclusive content or graphics that completely descimate the 360, or folks will ask themselves 'Tell me why I am paying $200 more for a PS3?!"

You don't think the 360 is far ahead? The console has a 7 million plus lead, and it would have been even larger gap if Sony didn't take a few hits for the team and cut prices even further to make it a contest again. So, they have even bigger losses compared to MS doing one tiny price cut. From a business standpoint, I'd go with the company on top, with a 7M lead over brand any day. 



MrMafoo said:
elnino334 said:

Well if you haven't bought a 360 wouldn't it make sense to buy one since it has a much larger library? You would get great games from 2006-2007 alot cheaper. Isn't that one of the reasons the PS2 is still doing so well? At this current time all the great games on the 360 can be played using the arcade 360 and until that is no longer the case how it a dumb move to spend $280 though will be cheaper in due time to play those games which will be $30-50. Again nothing against the PS3 but the 360 is a solid purchase especially if all you care about is games.


We will see. The 360 is a great machine, but so was the xb, and it died (I have owned them both). It has everything to do with where it sits on the market.Oh, and if library size is your thing, then the PS2 or the Wii would be a better choice. The type of people that drop 300+ on a gaming rig, want the most technologically advanced games. If you wanted less than that, there are a lot better choices.

 


I enjoyed my Xbox - but with the Nvidia suit, and the rumor that MS used the Xbox to break into the gaming market for the 360 - it was time to go. That won't happen this time around with the 360. Being first to the market worked well for MS. No one could have predicted the Wii would be the beast it was, but even in light of that console, the 360 is still selling remarkably well, and going over 2 years with just one price cut is outstanding.



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Auron said:
MrMafoo said:
elnino334 said:

Well if you haven't bought a 360 wouldn't it make sense to buy one since it has a much larger library? You would get great games from 2006-2007 alot cheaper. Isn't that one of the reasons the PS2 is still doing so well? At this current time all the great games on the 360 can be played using the arcade 360 and until that is no longer the case how it a dumb move to spend $280 though will be cheaper in due time to play those games which will be $30-50. Again nothing against the PS3 but the 360 is a solid purchase especially if all you care about is games.


We will see. The 360 is a great machine, but so was the xb, and it died (I have owned them both). It has everything to do with where it sits on the market.Oh, and if library size is your thing, then the PS2 or the Wii would be a better choice. The type of people that drop 300+ on a gaming rig, want the most technologically advanced games. If you wanted less than that, there are a lot better choices.

 


The 360 and XB are ok machines. If they were great they wouldn't be getting totally anahilated by the wii and they would have sold a lot more WW then their over-priced competitor with almost no great games. And 360 games aren't the most technologically advanced games, are you slow, they are arguably the prettiest but far from technologically advanced. This gen the Wii has motion sensing, PS3 has Sixaxis and the 360 well it has the same stuff as XB but prettier.


The Wii has a lower price point, a simple yet engaging game (Wiisports) and Bluetooth motion sensing, as well as built-in Wifi and Gamecube BC. It is an excellent value. But the word of mouth, plus the casual gaming aspect really propells the Wii's success. It's fun and soccer moms, grandparents and children have a console they can play together and not have to worry about achievements, online deathmatches and the like. Nintendo marketed this to get nongamers into the gaming fold. The 360, nor the PS3 can even compete with that. Plus, the motion remotes have RUMBLE (so last-gen, huh?).

The Wii isn't a hardcore gaming machine. It's built for folks who don't know the difference between a boss and leveling up, and yet offers hardcore gamers something as well.

MS realized this and released Viva Pinata and Scene It! (with some pretty cool controllers) to get folks over to the 360. It's working, but not even as fast as the Wii is. 



madskillz said:
MrMafoo said:

At some point, when deciding what to buy (360/PS3), there will be such a clear winner, that buying the other would be stupid. It happened with the PS2 and XB.


And you are basing this on ... 

I have an Xbox and a PS2. I enjoy both of them. And I am a winner even if I went with my PS2 or with my Xbox.


I agree. I owned them both, along with the PS3, 360, DC, PS1, 3DO... all the way back to Pong...

I have never bought a console I felt I wasted my money on. If someone today could find an old x-box, I am sure they can be happy with it. That's not the point I am making. The fact of the matter, is Sony sold 90 million more PS2's then MS sold of the XBox. That's not my opinion, it’s fact. That's what I am basing this on.

One day, one will stop selling, for whatever reason. It happens every generation. 



MrMafoo said:
madskillz said:
MrMafoo said:

At some point, when deciding what to buy (360/PS3), there will be such a clear winner, that buying the other would be stupid. It happened with the PS2 and XB.


And you are basing this on ...

I have an Xbox and a PS2. I enjoy both of them. And I am a winner even if I went with my PS2 or with my Xbox.


I agree. I owned them both, along with the PS3, 360, DC, PS1, 3DO... all the way back to Pong...

I have never bought a console I felt I wasted my money on. If someone today could find an old x-box, I am sure they can be happy with it. That's not the point I am making. The fact of the matter, is Sony sold 90 million more PS2's then MS sold of the XBox. That's not my opinion, it’s fact. That's what I am basing this on.

One day, one will stop selling, for whatever reason. It happens every generation.


I agree with your post. The reason that Sony sold more PS2s was a variety of mixtures in this explosive cocktail.

1. The PS2 had full BC. If you owned a PS1, you could migrate your PS1 library to the PS2 without worry. That was definitely a huge plus for the PS2.

2. the PS2 had the head start. The Xbox had good numbers, but had to play catch up, had to have price cuts and could never, ever keep up with the PS2. Starting to sound familiar, huh? 

3. The PS2 had timed exclusives or exclusives that would never see the light of day on the Xbox. That was huge and nailed several nails into the Xbox's coffin. The PS2 landed GTA after MS turned them down. In order for Xbox fan boys to play GTA, which is the top selling franchise on the PS2, they had to wait at least 2 years. By the time it hit the Xbox, it was played into a coma on the PS2. This time around, it's not the case, and losing it as well as other exclusives, it a huge blow to Sony. You may not think right now it is, but you'll see in the long run.

4. Lastly, Xbox had to deal with the Nvidia lawsuit. It was just easier to pay the damage, bow out and go into a different direction with the 360.

Though differences paid off for the 360. Folks just look at how badly the PS2 beat the Xbox and think it's the same now. With no way to play your old PS2 games right now, and no real system-moving games out, the only way the PS3 will outsell and beat the 360 with the current ingredients will take an act of God.



You keep saying there is no way to play your PS2 games. Mine does, and so does the 80 gig. Most of what you say has merit. Please stop with lines that only fan boys say (like there is no way to play a ps2 game on a ps3), and the rest of your posts will carry more credibility. Just some constructive criticism :)

Anyway, back on topic… all the things you have said has made it a lot harder this time around for Sony to so what Sony has done in the past. GTA is a big blow, but only in the sense that it is not a factor. Multi platform games do very little in the console wars. Exclusives do, and Sony still has some big guns. If GTA had become exclusive to the 360, then Sony would have a lot more to worry about.

I think it won’t be a cakewalk like it was last time around, but I do think in the end, the PS3 just has more staying power.



madskillz said:

Duke City Gamerz - The Duke City's/New Mexico's premier game source


BTW, I am from Albuquerque, good to see someone from my neck of the woods online (I have lived in MN for the last three years however, winters up here suck :p)