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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Mass Effect Thread: Leviathan is out, buy it, it's great

yo_john117 said:
So can someone explain to me why the ending is so horribly bad? It wasn't the most optimal of endings and I think they did it that way just so they could have a big twist at the end but really I thought the ending was just fine. I actually liked it.

I think this mostly boils down to a few key things.

1. People's expectations were so unrealistically high that they had to nitpick everything in the game.
2. The game was made by Bioware so haters gonna hate.
3. People were so mad about the day one DLC, online pass and how the MP/SP cross over with each other in a kind of lame way that they made a way bigger deal about every little thing.
4. People in general are petrified of change and surprises and that ending was quite unexpected.

Honestly this ending thing about ME3 reminds me of the Skyrim issues and how they were blown into ridiculous proportions. Even if you don't like the ending in ME3, most videogames don't even come close to having as good of an ending as this game does (videogame endings in general are mostly not all that great).

-1- from what ive seen when it comes the comes it meets the expectations, accept for the ending.

-2- people love bioware,  and its mostly the huge fans that are pissed off.

-3- i feel as if this ending fiasco is exagerated, but if you look at it it ruined the series for many people so their rage is understandeble

-4-  i expected such an ending, but the plot holes it has and the way it concludes the series is not fight for the series

-5- actually the ending in me3 is bad compare to the ones of other games, as it's not sattisfactory and it has a very negative effect on our overall view of the game.

here is what i hated about the ending other then plot holes

-1- shepard dies for nothing, we don't know what happens to his squad mates, to the normandy, to our loved ones, and we don't know if the galaxy has HOPE of survival(ending 1). All endings makes me feel that the sacrifice of shepard and of so many people was for nothing.

-2- when it comes to ending two i find it useless, i'm not hating on it i just feel they could have putten more effort and gave us a diffrent ending

-3- No closure

-4- aren't effecte greatly by the descisions we made through ought the game

-5- it makes my efforts and work and emotion put into the game useless as it's not satisfactory and it destroys replayability.

-6- although it's not a big issue an ending where shepard lives would be nice, as mass effect is about choices, and if you played the series perfectly, keeping everyone alive and being perfectly ready for the final battle, those efforts should mean something.

how would i change the "good" ending of me3, fill the plot holes, show us that shepards sacrifice was worth it by showing that the galaxy has hope and that our squad mates/loved ones are alive. And also make it in a way so that i would wish that i would be able to die with such glory.

I know i ask for to much, but for the emotions and choice the mass effect series gives, its conclusion shoudn't be like this, it's an insult to the work of the developers to the fans, and to the love we have for this series.



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I feel your pain Zgamer5. I knew the ending was bad but this breakdown picked up on some things that I didn't notice myself.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview?pli=1&sle=true



Darc Requiem said:

4. People were pissed off at the plot holes. ME2's Arrival DLC established that an exploding Mass Relay has the force of Super Nova. No matter what ending you choose all the relays are destroyed. Which means nearly all life in the ME Galaxy should have been wiped out. The Normandy was with the combined Galactic Fleet above Earth and suddenly it's at FTL out running some explosion. One of, or in some cases both, squadmates you take into the final battle on Earth exit the Normandy's hatch after it crashes. That's not even possible. The Illusive Man controlling Shepard and Anderson was plot hole. Indoctrination has never worked that way throughout the entire series. The reason the Catalyst gave for creating the Reapers made no sense. To stop synthetics from wiping out organics, the Catalyst creates a fleet of synthetics that wipe out organics. The ending literally made no sense. It reminds me of the Mass Effect Deception debacle.

Not sure if we're still doing spoiler tags so I covered part of my post.

Just a comment on a few of the plot holes you mentioned:

1. Supernova's (whilst huge) aren't that big and there aren't that many mass relays. There would be plenty of life left after the destruction of all the mass relays.

2. The Normandy suddenly appearing in FTL with members of the crew (including those that were down on Earth) points to a gap in time that I think will probably be filled with the DLC. As it stands, it seems pretty random, although I'd guess it was trying to outrun a mass relay explosion... but yeah...

3. The reasoning the Catalyst gave was to prevent further chaos a complete and all out war would bring. My understanding was that in a 50,000 year cycle organics become too advanced and will lead to a completely chaotic situation whereby organics and synthetics battle continously for millenia. This is heavily hinted towards by the Geth and Javik's complete distrust of synthetic life.

The Reapers pupose is to massacre advanced organics, not battle them in war. Anyway, the fact that Shephard made it into that room in the Citadel showed the Catalyst that the organics of this cycle had advanced to a point where the Reapers were now redundant and wouldn't be able to prevent the chaos they were originally designed to.

This of course leaves more questions as to the nature of the Catalyst.



I beat the end again to get a different ending.

I know they have issues that everyone has pointed out. However, I thought that the ending had the same amount of issues the general plot had itself (which I thought had a bunch).

I think they could have done a lot of cool things incorporating past decisions into the game. But, they chose not to which I was expecting.



Scoobes said:
Darc Requiem said:

4. People were pissed off at the plot holes. ME2's Arrival DLC established that an exploding Mass Relay has the force of Super Nova. No matter what ending you choose all the relays are destroyed. Which means nearly all life in the ME Galaxy should have been wiped out. The Normandy was with the combined Galactic Fleet above Earth and suddenly it's at FTL out running some explosion. One of, or in some cases both, squadmates you take into the final battle on Earth exit the Normandy's hatch after it crashes. That's not even possible. The Illusive Man controlling Shepard and Anderson was plot hole. Indoctrination has never worked that way throughout the entire series. The reason the Catalyst gave for creating the Reapers made no sense. To stop synthetics from wiping out organics, the Catalyst creates a fleet of synthetics that wipe out organics. The ending literally made no sense. It reminds me of the Mass Effect Deception debacle.

Not sure if we're still doing spoiler tags so I covered part of my post.

Just a comment on a few of the plot holes you mentioned:

1. Supernova's (whilst huge) aren't that big and there aren't that many mass relays. There would be plenty of life left after the destruction of all the mass relays.

2. The Normandy suddenly appearing in FTL with members of the crew (including those that were down on Earth) points to a gap in time that I think will probably be filled with the DLC. As it stands, it seems pretty random, although I'd guess it was trying to outrun a mass relay explosion... but yeah...

3. The reasoning the Catalyst gave was to prevent further chaos a complete and all out war would bring. My understanding was that in a 50,000 year cycle organics become too advanced and will lead to a completely chaotic situation whereby organics and synthetics battle continously for millenia. This is heavily hinted towards by the Geth and Javik's complete distrust of synthetic life.

The Reapers pupose is to massacre advanced organics, not battle them in war. Anyway, the fact that Shephard made it into that room in the Citadel showed the Catalyst that the organics of this cycle had advanced to a point where the Reapers were now redundant and wouldn't be able to prevent the chaos they were originally designed to.

This of course leaves more questions as to the nature of the Catalyst.


1. You are forgetting that most of the relays are in habitable systems. The Charon Relay is in the Sol System. So Earth and the entire solar system should be wiped out. Be that is it may the entire combined Galactic Fleet, Normandy included, would be destroyed when the Charon Relay explodes. This would be the case for all of the homeworlds of all the major races, if they some how managed to avoid the shockwave. They'd have no homes to return to. Pretty massive plot hole.

2. The Normandy FTL scene just isn't possible. It would require insanely precise timing and that's the least of it. Joker would have to break off from battle and some how manage to pick up the squadmates Shepard brought with him. I say somehow because Harbinger is sitting right there and it appeared that everyone except Shepard was killed by Harbingers attack. If they managed that impossible feat they'd have to get to Charon Relay before Shepard activates the Crucible.

3. The Catalyst created the Reapers to wipe out advanced organic life so that advanced organic life wouldn't create synthetic life that would wipe out organic life. It's nonsensical. They kill organics because organics might create synthetics that kill organics. Plus the Catalyst being the Citadel it self and the brains behind the Reapers contradicts ME1's plot. The Citadel itself being intelligent would make the Keeper's pointless and Sovereign monitoring the progress of organics pointless.

Every indication we have is that the Reapers massacre organics in war every 50,000 years. There are planets all over the Galaxy in ME that have descriptions of orbital bombardments. The derelict Reaper of ME2 was decimated in a War. As was the Leviathan of Dis, that ultimately doomed the Batarians.



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Darc Requiem said:


1. You are forgetting that most of the relays are in habitable systems. The Charon Relay is in the Sol System. So Earth and the entire solar system should be wiped out. Be that is it may the entire combined Galactic Fleet, Normandy included, would be destroyed when the Charon Relay explodes. This would be the case for all of the homeworlds of all the major races, if they some how managed to avoid the shockwave. They'd have no homes to return to. Pretty massive plot hole.

That's not really a plot hole. An unfortunate result, perhaps, but not a plot hole.



noname2200 said:
Darc Requiem said:


1. You are forgetting that most of the relays are in habitable systems. The Charon Relay is in the Sol System. So Earth and the entire solar system should be wiped out. Be that is it may the entire combined Galactic Fleet, Normandy included, would be destroyed when the Charon Relay explodes. This would be the case for all of the homeworlds of all the major races, if they some how managed to avoid the shockwave. They'd have no homes to return to. Pretty massive plot hole.

That's not really a plot hole. An unfortunate result, perhaps, but not a plot hole.


It's a plot hole. Earth is only shown to be destroyed if you pick the Destroy ending and your EMS is too low. Following prior lore,  it should be destroyed either way because of exploding Charon Relay. Crap I forgot that the Citadel is giant Mass Relay so between it blowing up and the Charon Relay blowing up everyone should die not matter what.



Darc Requiem said:
noname2200 said:
Darc Requiem said:


1. You are forgetting that most of the relays are in habitable systems. The Charon Relay is in the Sol System. So Earth and the entire solar system should be wiped out. Be that is it may the entire combined Galactic Fleet, Normandy included, would be destroyed when the Charon Relay explodes. This would be the case for all of the homeworlds of all the major races, if they some how managed to avoid the shockwave. They'd have no homes to return to. Pretty massive plot hole.

That's not really a plot hole. An unfortunate result, perhaps, but not a plot hole.


It's a plot hole. Earth is only shown to be destroyed if you pick the Destroy ending and your EMS is too low. Following prior lore,  it should be destroyed either way because of exploding Charon Relay. Crap I forgot that the Citadel is giant Mass Relay so between it blowing up and the Charon Relay blowing up everyone should die not matter what.

While true, I'm willing to ascribe this to a "we just didn't see it" scenario. Because logically, what you wrote should have happened and, to the best of my knowledge, we never see it not happening. (Take that, double-negatives!)

It happened in my ending, anyways. Which I apparently have to write, because the people who are supposed to couldn't be fussed.



 

3. The reasoning the Catalyst gave was to prevent further chaos a complete and all out war would bring. My understanding was that in a 50,000 year cycle organics become too advanced and will lead to a completely chaotic situation whereby organics and synthetics battle continously for millenia. This is heavily hinted towards by the Geth and Javik's complete distrust of synthetic life.

The Reapers pupose is to massacre advanced organics, not battle them in war. Anyway, the fact that Shephard made it into that room in the Citadel showed the Catalyst that the organics of this cycle had advanced to a point where the Reapers were now redundant and wouldn't be able to prevent the chaos they were originally designed to.

This of course leaves more questions as to the nature of the Catalyst.


I haven't analyzed everything, and likely won't,  But I enjoyed those twists you mentioned. I think the catalyst could have been explained neatly as "God" or as a being higher than us or the reapers. Such as how we are to ants with an ant farm. However, in ME1 the reaper says "it's beyond human comprehension." and obviously their existance, is quite comprehenisible. Though this is something that generally occurs with stories over multiple sequals.

 The other twists I liked was the passing on the plan for the crucible, cycle to cycle. I think another place for an ending that would've been cool, is if your galactic readiness isn't high enough. It allows you to preserve the information for the next cycle. Then maybe shows the next cycle beating them.


There's probably holes in the things I mentioned, but I  would have rather had the game explore these issues as opposed to being an errand boy uniting the races. But, idk.

And I was pissed about morinth who was probably my favorite character from 2. all she got I think was an email. And you see her as a banshee. You never actually speak with her. :-/.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M0Cf864P7E nice video highlighting plot holes in the ending, and other its not good.



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