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Forums - Sony Discussion - David Jaffe responds to G4TV’s Twisted Metal review

Christhor on 16 February 2012
theprof00 said:
Christhor said:


I just want to focus on those two points:

Just because the gameplay for certain games have been mostly unchanged, doesn't have to mean that they are outdated. Again, Mario Kart, those controlls work just as well now as they did back then. Twisted Metal 2's controlls? Those would be horrible by todays standards, because they are extremely clunky. There is a difference between being around for a long time and being outdated.

Example of controlls that don't work in todays gaming: The oldschool onrails shooters. These were loved back on the original Playstation, but by todays standards they would be horrible. Another example? Well, to take a more definite example: Metal Gear Solid. Do you have any idea what kind of outrage there would be if a new MGS game came out with the original controlls? Mario Kart still works perfectly.


Why is this even being argued. The controls are not the same. They're much tighter, feel better, are simpler, and do more, as I illustrated.

Also, for the bet, a 5$ steam/vc/etc game?


Then there really isn't much to argue about. If they're improved, then they're improved.

That sounds pretty reasonable, a 5$ game over steam it is.



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theprof00 on 16 February 2012
Christhor said:
theprof00 said:
Christhor said:


I just want to focus on those two points:

Just because the gameplay for certain games have been mostly unchanged, doesn't have to mean that they are outdated. Again, Mario Kart, those controlls work just as well now as they did back then. Twisted Metal 2's controlls? Those would be horrible by todays standards, because they are extremely clunky. There is a difference between being around for a long time and being outdated.

Example of controlls that don't work in todays gaming: The oldschool onrails shooters. These were loved back on the original Playstation, but by todays standards they would be horrible. Another example? Well, to take a more definite example: Metal Gear Solid. Do you have any idea what kind of outrage there would be if a new MGS game came out with the original controlls? Mario Kart still works perfectly.


Why is this even being argued. The controls are not the same. They're much tighter, feel better, are simpler, and do more, as I illustrated.

Also, for the bet, a 5$ steam/vc/etc game?


Then there really isn't much to argue about. If they're improved, then they're improved.

That sounds pretty reasonable, a 5$ game over steam it is.

Sweet I'll post it on the golden saucer.



happydolphin on 16 February 2012
theprof00 said:

Sweet I'll post it on the golden saucer.

What's the golden saucer? :)



theprof00 on 16 February 2012

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=67450&page=1



happydolphin on 16 February 2012

Hahaha :)



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enditall727 on 16 February 2012
Christhor said:
enditall727 said:
Christhor said:
enditall727 said:
Christhor said:
enditall727 said:
Christhor said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
happydolphin said:

Look, it's just my opinion. M.U.G.E.N. actually played it and he says it's good. I appreciate that because it's hands on, then again he loves everything Sony releases so it's hard to take it completely seriously.

 


what a load of bullshit..I would appreciate if you don't say stupid crap like that please. and did you just compare mario kart to TM? 0_o wtf man..you sure you played the game before? They are NOTHING alike.

and just so I'm clear and since cuz of stupid arguments like these the sony section is deserted on this forum..you are more than welcome to check over at a place like GAF on their impressions on the game. You will find hundreds of opinions there. No one gives a shit about graphics on this game as long as it performs well and it does that amazingly well.


You sure you've played Mario Kart? Because the arena mode in Mario Kart is essentially a Twisted Metal junior. Don't get your panties in a knot just because it's a viable comparison.

Also, the original reviewer guy did make a pretty decent point. If take a game that was good in the Ps1 days, and essentially just give it a graphical overhaul, then you do have every right to say to say that it's outdated. Why? Because they can be. Why isn't this the case with Mario Kart? Because the controlls are great by todays standard.

Now, I haven't played a Twisted Metal game since 2, and I don't think I am going to play this one, but if the gameplay was mostly unchanged then points should be removed because of that. It was a clunky game back in the day, but it fit the time. Now? Not so much.


you said this as if EVERYBODY claimed that Twisted Metal ps3 was outdated

isn't this guy the only person that had slick sh!t to say about Twisted Metal? hince why Jaffe replied to his comments

and you do know that there was Twisted Metal Black on ps2 right? so why act as if the last twisted metal before the ps3 was only released on the ps1?

 

...


You clearly didn't understand my post. I never said that Twisted Metal Ps3 was outdated, nor did I state that everyone has been saying it is. I said that if it hadn't evolved at all, then it would have been outdated. Two very different things.

And I really can't base my own views of Black, since I, like everyone else, did not play that game. That is why I based it on the Ps1 game.


no, i think i understood it clearly

 

you said --> Also, the original reviewer guy did make a pretty decent point. If take a game that was good in the Ps1 days, and essentially just give it a graphical overhaul, then you do have every right to say to say that it's outdated.

^^you were basically implying here that Twisted Metal IS IN FACT outdated because that specific ps1 game that he was talking about WAS Twisted Metal

 

Now you are truely showing that you did not understand what I said. I stated he had a point, the point is valid, I didn't state that it was right in terms of Twisted Metal. You are the one reading between the lines.


Why? Because they can be. Why isn't this the case with Mario Kart? Because the controlls are great by todays standard.

^^ here you are implying that UNLIKE Twisted Metal, Mario Kart has in fact evolved gameplay wise

you were trying to say that Mario Kart obviously did something right because nobody criticised it for being outdated like THEY(this 1 specific guy) did with Twisted even though Mario Karts gameplay has basically been the same for years(like this guy tried to claim for Twisted)

 

Again, I am not implying that the Twisted Metal controlls are bad, just that the Mario Kart controlls are great by todays standard, which they actually are. I never stated that Twisted Metal was outdated, I don't actually know, but I was countering all the people saying "But Mario Kart hasn't changed much, and everyone loves that!" Some controlls can work in todays gaming, others do not. That is a simple truth.

 

and i should know because i play them all

that reviewer had an agenda

Jaffe was justified in my book..


Added stuff in yo quote.

 

Again, I am not implying that the Twisted Metal controlls are bad, just that the Mario Kart controlls are great by todays standard, which they actually are.

yea and they have been the same for years like all these other game

and i didnt say that you implied that Twisted's "controls" are bad, im talking about the gameplay being outdated

who the hell would get mad about the controls of a game being the same LOL

i cant imaginge somebody complaining saying "the button A has been used as the jump button for years now, THESE CONTROLS ARE OUTDATED! " LOL

 

Some controlls can work in todays gaming, others do not. That is a simple truth.

give me an example


I just want to focus on those two points:

Just because the gameplay for certain games have been mostly unchanged, doesn't have to mean that they are outdated. Again, Mario Kart, those controlls work just as well now as they did back then. Twisted Metal 2's controlls? Those would be horrible by todays standards, because they are extremely clunky. There is a difference between being around for a long time and being outdated.

Example of controlls that don't work in todays gaming: The oldschool onrails shooters. These were loved back on the original Playstation, but by todays standards they would be horrible. Another example? Well, to take a more definite example: Metal Gear Solid. Do you have any idea what kind of outrage there would be if a new MGS game came out with the original controlls? Mario Kart still works perfectly.


I just want to focus on those two points

i lol'd when i read this

 

Just because the gameplay for certain games have been mostly unchanged, doesn't have to mean that they are outdated

LOL i feel like the guy who did the review now LMFAO!

you are correct here and this is what i was trying to say about Twisted Metal!

the gameplay doesn't need to be changed just like how Mario Karts gameplay doesnt need to be changed(which is why it hasn't)

and this is why that guy had an agenda, all these other games can stay the same gameplay wise but he wants to slam Twisted Metal for some odd reason though!?

notice how none of these other big reviewers said that the gameplay was outdated though

it was only that specific guy

 

Again, Mario Kart, those controlls work just as well now as they did back then. Twisted Metal 2's controlls? Those would be horrible by todays standards, because they are extremely clunky.

ok now you are trying to justify Mario Kart's "controls" being the same for years as ok but at the same time saying that Twisted Metals 2's "controls" are horrible by todays standards?

you lost me

this is about GAMEPLAY!! LMFAO

the guy was saying that the "GAMEPLAY" didn't evolve

i dont know what you're talking about with this "controls" sh!t

 

Example of controlls that don't work in todays gaming: The oldschool onrails shooters. These were loved back on the original Playstation, but by todays standards they would be horrible.

what? onrail shooters?

???

are you talking about games like einhander?

no, they wouldnt be horrible

you just need to find a developer who actually would want to put time into the game

 

Another example? Well, to take a more definite example: Metal Gear Solid. Do you have any idea what kind of outrage there would be if a new MGS game came out with the original controlls? Mario Kart still works perfectly.

hmm pretty decent example there

MGS has in fact evolved but at the same time, this is a stealth/action game

they have room to evolve

now what could somebody possibly evolve in a car game gameplay wise? IT IS A FREAKING CAR GAME!! lol

let me give you an example

 

here is a GT5 review by the rageaholic

lol

but seriously though, the only thing they could do is add little sh!t here and there but the gameplay would still be the same for the most part

 

now honestly, i believe YOU had an agenda aswell but decided to back out a few post's ago on the sly but whatever..



theprof00 on 17 February 2012

Oh, also the ice portion of that one map he's talking about.
Yeah, that could be fixed a bit. But also seeing how there are rankings for completing the levels (as in, you are ranked on score against every other gamer owner) The ice is a welcome obstacle to beating it quickly. If you want to score well, you have to manage around the ice.



happydolphin on 17 February 2012

Hey theprof00, So I reread the interview for you, as promised, and looked for where he mentioned evolution and stagnance without specifying in what way. I found them in the intro and summary. The mentions of lack of evolution I marked with arrows, the mention of physics I marked in italics:

In the review's Intro:

Twisted Metal Review:

After a long sabbatical, one of Sony’s most nostalgic franchises is back. Twisted Metal will be instantly familiar to the legion of gamers who spent hours orchestrating vehicular mayhem on their PSOnes. 

-> As it turns out, after so many years, very little has changed.

Twisted Metal is a game that unabashedly services those old school gamers with its retro, arcade action, 

-> but it also unintentionally proves just how far action games in general and driving games in specific have come."

In the review's summary:

A 1990’s Heavy Metal Party

 

Twisted Metal is a hard sell for those in search of a well-rounded driving game. 

-> The game play and physics feel almost as if they were ripped from the original PSOne game, and the genre has come a long way since then.

While the single-player game is weak, the multiplayer is mostly fun and creative.

->It’s disappointing that after such a long wait, the game didn’t evolve more,

but fans of the original are certain to enjoy this blast from the past."

 

How I see it:

I finally understand why a fan would be upset. A critique for a fan of a game is taken like a stab. A stab is a surged feeling/emotion. Suddenly, the stab is understood out of context from the whole of the review. Looking at it from my end, since I'm not a fan, I was able to read it as part of the whole article, in which he explains where the game lacked evolution, namely, the department of driving physics.

Having said that, if I were him:

After going through this, my recommendation would be to qualify the stabs with precision, so as to avoid confusing readers, in particular fans. Even though the blanket statements were used in the more generalizing summary and intro (as is their purpose), it would not have rendered the review so much more verbose with a qualifier or two.

Bottom line:

Even though I agree with the reviewer's POV, I now agree that his writing skills lack tact, and understand why fans would be upset. Their reaction in the comments section is not what I expect from the community. My hope is that some within the better communities can explain tactfully exactly what part or wording of the review they disagreed with, providing proactive and constructive criticism.

Addendum (added by edit):
I also notice he bundled gameplay with physics in some of the remarks, and that is conflicting with the rest of his review. You were right on that point.

I'm glad I went through this exercise.



theprof00 on 17 February 2012

Thank you for re-reading that Happy.

I can say for myself that my anger was very misplaced, and well, shouldn't have appeared in the first place. What appeared to be happening is that we got off on a tangent somehow, and while what you were saying did make sense, we were thinking about two different things, and it wasn't fair of me to demonize you.

I will also be working on my tact in teh future :D



happydolphin on 17 February 2012

Thanks :) Let this be proof that when people want to, they can understand each other. *high five*

I also want to formally apologize to M.U.G.E.N if he's reading. There was nothing positive that came out of my slip about him, and that was my mistake. If you're reading this, sorry bud.