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oniyide said:
@happydolphin We're going to have to agree to disagree, you have no proof that Ninty even offered money I have not proof they did, but they have never done so before so im more inclined to believe that they didnt offer anything, Were as the other two have been know to moneyhat even since last gen.
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Does Nintendo purely moneyhat? I believe not:
You may be right, we have no proof either way, and Nintendo wasn't known to throw its money around, we still don't know if they do today. The MH thing was more likely another "Work with us we'll work with you" kind of thing, where Nintendo publishes a game like RE:R in US and Europe (+ the Circle pad pro) and Capcom likes that, and seeing the 3DS like the logical platform for their MH series (they don't need fancy visuals, and the DS was a smashing success), so they're in.
Some say it's moneyhatting, but they neither have proof. And we have no proof that Nintendo changed their ways on moneyhatting. Yes they seem to be improving their 3rd party relations, but pure moneyhatting per se unlike what they did for gamecube, I don't believe they've changed their stance on that.
| You are right they put their cheaper devs on Wii, but Wii is a cheaper system, im not saying that to be insulting it just it. It would be like Crytek working on a portable and they are used to working on high end PCs, they might get something good to work on it, but why would they? |
Lack of business vision in the industry, or is it only towards a non-conglomerate:
@italics. For the business opportunity. That was their lack of vision. You don't see it either, but you're a gamer, it's normal. They are business men. But sometimes, they too are blind despite their positions of strategy makers. (I'll demonstrate later that Capcom finally understood the strategy.)
Granted, this business opportunity would have required a huge sacrifice on prior investment, and very few were willing to do that. (They would have had to scrap some previous plans that were banking on HD and created scaffolds for AAA SD games on Wii)
Few were willing, but close to none being ready to veer? That's upsetting and shows a great lack of business agility within the industry.... UNLESS, this kind of behavior only applies to the non-conglomerates such as SEGA or Nintendo (likely due to risk). However, now that Nintendo is finally proving themselves beyond considerable fault, we may see a change of attitude from some of them in the future.
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Like you say it takes two to tango and you're right, but how do you know if Ninty even wanted to tango?? From a pure buisness stand point, they were doing really well already, so what would be the incentive to even want to dance?? Which goes back to the moneyhatting, they would have no reason to really do so IMHO, they were already getting their bread.
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Nintendo doesn't do pure moneyhatting, they moneyhat + ally in a package:
@italics. OK, I conceded this earlier. In the pure moneyhatting tango, you may be right. But in the moneyhatting + shared efforts tango, we know Nintendo was ready to partner since the cube days. (SEGA-Namco-Nintendo triforce, Konami+SK on Twin Snakes, Capcom 5, and more obscure ones such as Browny Brown).
Nintendo did not stop due to pure success. The issue is, they rested on their laurels:
@bold. It's not that they were doing well that would have made them lose incentive. They're in a very good position with Wii U so why would they dance today? Yet you say they are playing ball now. I would argue that it's not because they were doing well that they failed the tango, but because they rested on their laurels during the Wii boom, and were laughing they asses off while 3rd parties shunned them. But when the Wii's luster died out in 2010, I think they stopped laughing and got back to the board room, so to speak. This answers the last sentence. It's not about success, otherwise they wouldn't be getting ready with Wii U, they could follow the Wii path. The issue was resting on their laurels.
| Capcom, this gen. I think some Ninty fans would disagree with you. SOme are still complaining that they didnt get an actual RE for Wii. GC got fantastic support from Capcom, hell even N64 got some goodies with a RE2 and MMLegends port. 3DS is getting hooked up and I expect the same from Wii U. BUt can you really say the same for the WIi?? Sorry man i dont buy it, one MH game and one obscure ass VS game IMHO doesnt really mean it got great support. Not when the HDs got an original Street Fighter, TWO new REs a spinoff for that, HD ports. We are literally tripping over fighting games over here. All kinds of rereleases on PSN/LIVE. So what was it about the WIi that caused them not to mess with it, it wasnt Ninty but something about that system that they are not feeling. |
Capcom, a company that understood the alternative strategy. Proof, their serious offerings on 3DS.
You're right, Capcom did shun the Wii for certain offerings. They also had the wrong idea that if you make games on the Wii, you need to use motion controls (hence the RE rails games). The shining exception is MH Tri. Even Tats. Who know Tatsunoko here? I sure wasn't interested. If 3DS, which has worse graphics than Wii, was able to succeed with SFIV, MH Tri G and RE:R, I think Capcom finally understood the strategy Rol is talking about. Had they done that on Wii, thing would have been better. However, AT LEAST they learnt the lesson and are acting properly this time around. Hoping that lasts and they don't get enticed in the wrong direction again...
| again alot of those HD twin like games tax the hardware and demand a high level of graphical and power fidelity. AC?? naw man, that wouldnt work on Wii. Go to a buddies house and actually play it, then play the online mode You cant get that on Wii. Batman same thing, especially Arkham City, since that was moved to open world, which is something Wii would struggle to run, some might say that they could make original versions with original engines. I say it would still suck, even if they can get it to run the best it can, it will still come short of the HD big brothers and people would still say that its still not as good as PS360 version and most likely stick to that. Hell I have both an HD and Wii. Hell look at COD they have been running the same engine on PS360 since 4 and the games still run worse on Wii, horrible pop in. online isnt up to snuff, slow down. If Wii cant handle that weak engine you think they can mess with the bigger boys?? |
Devs were pro-Sony pre PS3 launch, no secret there:
@italics. I don't remember arguing that AC would work well on Wii. What I did was point you to a paragraph in Wikipedia about PS3 exclusives going to 360. My point was to show you how pre-disposed devs were to make games on PS3 from the get-go, and it was logical at the time! Post PS3-launch though, it was no longer logical, hence them swarming to the 360. I was just giving you that wikipedia paragraph to show how many exclusives Sony lost to MS. There's no secret here.
Purpose of wikipedia paragraph: Explain the position devs were in at PS3 launch failure.
Devs were in a position where they had prepared their business strategy around the PS3, yet it failed to hold up to that strategy. The userbase wasn't growing. That resulted in lots of HD infrastructure that needed to yield revenue. This is not rocket science. It explains the inception of a momentum whereby MS started attracting 3rd parties to its already relatively successful platform (the gap was much smaller than last gen, and their base provided a good damper on PS3 investmentlosses).
| 3 Killer 7 was a niche game that didnt set the world on fire for WIi and its spiritual successor NMHs surprise surprise wasnt the grand seller people thought it would be, but thats not Wii's fault, having played the game(PS3 version) it was mediocore at best and I think people just got hyped cause they were getting an actual action game on WIi. MHTri could have worked on any system. I dont know why people are so impressed by that to be honest, the PSP entries usually do better and that is a system that has been "dead" for the past 4 years. I would have thought it would have done as well as the PSP entries. |
Category 3 exists, reducing Killer 7 (an example in this occurrence) does not reduce my point:
@bold. Was killer 7 a bad example... my bad. Find a better one for me. Category 3 is something you and I know exist. A better one, well why not just make it easy and use a Nintendo 1st party: Mario Galaxy. It's good, it's not HD and it's neither a dance game nor shovelware.
A series can work on any platform, give or take a feature or two. Proof: Crisis Core:
@italics. If Tri could have worked on any system, doesn't this prove my point that any series could work on Wii? Elements from a series are not always required to make it part of said series. You mention open worlds and intensive processing and whatnot for AC and Batman. Does a game on that series need said elements to remain within that series? I believe not. So any series can work on any system, give or take a feature or two. It can even be a side-story, that doesn't matter. What matters is that it is a AAA game, and a serious marketing effort. Was Crisis Core not a serious Final Fantasy offering? Is it not Final Fantasy? Yet it was very different in implementation from regular Final Fantasies. Was it compelling, did it attract consumers? Sales would say yes.
Explaining why MH Freedom did well on PSP, a dead system:
Monster Hunter is a humonguous series in Japan. Even if it released on a dead system, it would do well, especially when said system is a portable, and local multiplayer is a huge component of the game. Here are sales of MH in Japan, as a series.
As you can see in the Total row, MH has a tendency to sell in japan by a 6:1 ratio compared to the west. Pair that with having it on a portable for local multiplayer, and you have your answer.
Now, notice how Wii sales for Tri were on a roughly 1:1 ratio, Japan to West. Compare that to an almost 5:1 ratio (Japan to West) for PSP's Freedom Unite. That says something about portable gaming in Japan for multiplayer intensive games like MH, when the PSP was supposed to be dead as you say.
Using MH on Wii as an example was to show quality, not sales:
Having said that, I was not using MH Tri as an example of sales performance on Wii. Rather, I was using it as an example of a quality game, falling in category 3 (not HD, not a dance game or shovelware, just quality SD). You going on about sales does not budge my point in any way.
Apart from that, thanks as usual for answering.
