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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Do you agree with companies trying to rid used game sales?

 

Do you agree with companies trying to rid used game sales?

Yes 51 18.15%
 
No 167 59.43%
 
A little 34 12.10%
 
a lot but not completely 28 9.96%
 
Total:280

Nope, every single company that got into the used sales market ( except Amazon) tend to over time have less and less inventory of new games which is a pain for customers like me that want to buy their games new....
Since Best Buy got into used games sales, the shelf space for new games has been divided by two at my local Best Buy.



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Acevil said:
theprof00 said:
Acevil said:
theprof00 said:
New games are only full price when brand new. 

And the used games they sell are generally only 5-10 dollars cheaper than the new ones, and in the case of Call of Duty (which is almost always out of stock used) they sell it for 3$ cheaper.

So your point is invalid.

Furthermore, gamestop doesn't give people 30$ for games, they give them around 12-17.

I hesitate to call you out of touch, but it doesn't seem like you know what you're talking about.

Gamestop earns 2.5B in used game sales annually. You think that 2.5B is just going to disappear instead of people paying 10-20$ more?

But you are right about the numbers. They actually only make 26% of their revenue on Used games. It's in profit where it become >50%.

Not exactly right. For example, right now if I trade in the two month old assassin creed game, I would recieve $25 dollars. Within a week of release you will see that the TIV (Trade in Value) for Final Fantasy XIII-2 will be $25-30. Trade in Value prices for a new game that is a week old or two weeks old typically is around the 25-30 range for strong brand titles. 

Oh right, as long as you turn in the game as soon as you get bored of it, (1-2 months) then you'll get 25$, in which case, why aren't you simply using gamefly, or just renting games?

Plus, you didn't even buy that assassin's creed game new, did you? Unless, you're seriously telling me that you're only value conscious by selling your games, and opt out of buying used games for shits and giggles,


Oh I rarely buy used games, i was just saying how that isn't necessarily correct. 

Right, it's also not necessarily true to say that people buy new and trade in within a week because they're value conscious. Much more not necessarily true.



Do I agree with it? No.

Do I understand it? Yeah.



fedfed said:
JayWood2010 said:

This thread is suppost to tell why you agree or don't agree with companies trying to rid used game sales.  So give your opinion.  I will state mine below.


Ok, first off I understand why people are getting upset about companies trying to stop used game sales.  Yes you own them, I get it, but really you are also hurting the company who made the game.  THe only company you are helping out is gamestop.  How is it fair that gamestop can sale a game 3 times, why the company itself can only sale it once?  Do you have any idea how much money companies lose on used game sales,  plus all the pirated games.  Right now it is hard on game developers. But for all the people who are complaining constantly, you are going to have to get use to it eventually because it is going to happen.  And what happens when we go completely digital Distribution?  are you going to complain about that too, because you can't take that back either. 


I am a big ebay user, however I do agree.

I would like to see a world were you cannot buy used, games, dvd and cd in store or online.

the price will go down (since more software will be sold) - of course there are some limitation like very old game, limnited edition or anything else is out of production and you cannot find elsewhere.

 

maybe they should just put a date ban. like only 3 years old games, dvd or cd can be sold as second hand.

 

Company need to makes more profits so that they can make more games.


I like that idea :D




       

RolStoppable said:
theprof00 said:

Because you're saying that people buy new and sell their games a week later. That isn't true on a large scale, especially not for the demographic you're specifically referring to (value conscious), because they are completely wasting money. That means, your logic doesn't add up. You show me one person who buys new and then trades it in for any reason within a week, and I'll show you someone who is completely NOT in the value conscious market.

You're right, they wouldn't give 12-17 for a game that came out a week earlier, but then again, who in their right mind would do that? If they're so stripped for cash, they should be buying used and returning the game in a week for full refund.

Yes there is. But not 6B$+ worth of disappearing money.

1B$ annually. That money helps devs so much, am I right?

Thankfully, gaming is an addiction.

No, I am not saying that. I said I couldn't believe that even very recently released games would only be worth $12-17 for Gamestop.

Where does the $6 billion figure come from? I can't remember it being mentioned before.

This guesstimated $1 billion doesn't help developers directly, but it helps them regardless. With the used games market, gamers can afford to take risks in their purchases (because a $60 turd gets you at least $25 back which softens the blow) and have the ability to try out IPs they wouldn't have considered otherwise with the possibility that they become fans of the game and the developer. Like I said in my first post in this thread, without the used games market the big franchises would only get bigger while new IPs will be left to die. That isn't a healthy market.

6B$ is the currently valued 25B$ video game market extrapolated from being 26% of gamestop's annual revenue. Gamestop alone is 2.5B in revenue.

Yes, but in assuming that we are talking about very recently released games, you make two assumptions:

a) the game was purchased "new"
b) the game completely warrants a near immediate return.

According to cognitive dissonance, paying more for a game makes you appreciate it more and critique it less harshly.
Plus, your entire argument is rather stiffly balanced on the market remaining exactly the same as it is now, without compensation for the loss of the used market, like more demos, smaller budgets, more creativity, better income for devs.



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haxxiy said:

No way. You can buy pretty much everything second-hand out there,why software should be different?

If it can't thrive in the market like everything else and needs to be on some sort of life support then it must be left to die and rot. Sad, but that's the way it should be.

Honestly I guess even the ones who do support it know that I'm saying the truth and insist on it because they want their daily fix of digital entertainment no matter what.


Because software IS different. Everything else that you buy second-hand, you buy a diminished copy of. If you buy a 3 year old couch, it may have stains, it has some wear and tear. If you buy a 3 year old car, it probably has 40,000 miles on it, and it will start requiring maintenance. Physical products degrade over time. If you buy a car, it may have 10 years of life in it. If you buy a 3 year old car, it will have 7 years left in it. The product's age and wear and tear diminish through owners, degrading it's resale value. And it has a time when it ceases to have any value.

When you buy a used game, you get the entire game, still 100% of what it was. if you pass it on or resell it, it never changes. 5+ people can buy and resell the game and get the exact same experience as the new game. If people can afford a brand new car, they probably buy one, and people who can't buy used cars. People willing to spend the money keep the car companies afloat, and as the cars age, they move onto people who can afford less. Games however never technically diminish. How long do you think GM or Ford would be in business if everytime someone sold their 3 year old car, it magically got a complete overhaul? Suddenly the value of a "new" car drops significantly, while the production costs continue to rise.

Software is fundamentally different in this respect, and must be treated as such.



And to top it off, rol, the people who buy those niche games and titles are very likely collectors and hardcore gamers who already know what they want, so the only titles that people are going to move away from, are the shit titles. True there will be more people going to the big franchises, but that will likely be people who aren't really looking to get the game they want. You're talking about browsers, casuals in stores who say, "hey this looks good".

I'd bet that the people who bought demon's souls bought it because they wanted it, and very few returned it. OTOH, people who bought kane and lynch because "it has guns and stuff" (a shitty game) probably would move more toward the big franchises.
In the end, I think that games which people know are good, yet niche, will continue to sell just as they are, and games that the devs KNOW suck will be cancelled, etc, and thereby push more purchases into the big franchises, adn decrease the number of turds that come out.



I dont buy used and seldom sell, but when I lose the right to lend or sell a game, the value of the game drops dramatically. For example I wont pay more than $20 for any game on Steam, and more than likely I usually pay



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RolStoppable said:
theprof00 said:

6B$ is the currently valued 25B$ video game market extrapolated from being 26% of gamestop's annual revenue. Gamestop alone is 2.5B in revenue.

Yes, but in assuming that we are talking about very recently released games, you make two assumptions:

a) the game was purchased "new"
b) the game completely warrants a near immediate return.

According to cognitive dissonance, paying more for a game makes you appreciate it more and critique it less harshly.
Plus, your entire argument is rather stiffly balanced on the market remaining exactly the same as it is now, without compensation for the loss of the used market, like more demos, smaller budgets, more creativity, better income for devs.

It is mostly about very recently released games, because the companies who complain hate it that used copies of their games are flooding the marketplace within a couple of weeks of release. Further down the line a used game wouldn't hurt them as much anymore, because the RRP of the new copy has usually already dropped by then. The most money comes from the first month of sales for almost every game.

The main difference between us is that you see numbers and I see people when looking at sales. Behind every sale is a person. You said it yourself, gaming is an addiction. People buy the game on release day, because they cannot wait. They finish it within a week and sell it back to the store, because they've got everything out of the game they wanted. A game without replay value only collects dust on the shelf, so they might as well sell it. This is how games warrant near immediate returns, even if they were games that the player genuinely enjoyed.

And really, what speaks against using your examples of compensation while the used games market still exists? Perhaps if developers scaled back the budgets and were more creative, they could offer better games at a lower price. If they manage to make gamers hold on to their games for a longer period of time, then their problem of used games flooding the marketplace wouldn't exist in the first place.

show me where it says bolded. Specifically about the couple weeks of release in a complaint.
And I disagree. A game on the used market will continue to sell used indefinitely. For example, Uncharted and Call of Duty and MvC and other big games, hold their price at 50-60$ for the better part of 6-12 months. Hell even when MW2 was out, MW1 was still 40$ new.

No, no, I see people too. I don't see a person buying a game new and returning it within a week. I simply don't. That's why rentals exist. I cannot see someone really enjoying a game and selling it back immediately. I have never done it, and have never known anybody to do so. Sure it's anecdotal, but I don't think those people exist. I don't think they exist BECAUSE of things like gamefly, because of renting, because of trading to friends. Now, I could see someone hating a game and trading it in, and then an "addict" buying the used version because by now, obviously, he's learned that he has a full week to play and return for full credit.

 

And well, to your alst paragraph, gaming is still in infancy. Maybe it's a little older, but it is by no means matured in the sense that everyone knows what they are doing. That's why companies are throwing crap games out there, that's why studios are closing down. There's a lot of waste, and a lot of "no turning back" attitude, it's also a burden on devs that new consoles come out every 6 years or so.

And there's a lot of people who still seem to think that HD is the only way to go. I'm glad Iwata said "wii:U games don't all have to be HD". He's right. There's tons of ps2 level graphics games I'd like to see on the new consoles, but don't get made. There's a lot of cost savigns to be made, and perhaps these kinds of market forces are what they need.



Kasz216 said:

No.  What people tend to shortsightedly miss is that second hand markets are actually shown to stimulate the primary market because markets aren't vaccuums.

People who go in and but a game, then later resell it, knew from the start that they always had the option to sell back said game.  As such it's factored into that person's purchasing behavior making him more likely to buy the game new because he will value each game he's interested in a bit more because he knows he can get some of that cash back on the backend.

By eliminating that secondary market, said customers may not purchase games first hand, or just wait for deals when publishers are going to lose money.

Resale value is a feature.

It's a lot like returns... your far more likely to take a risk on a product if you can return it.  Your far more likely to take a risk on a game if you know you can get some of that investment back. 

Me?  I don't sell back games... i'm an archivist and love going back and playing my games...  but any economist will tell you the secondary market helps, it doesn't hurt.  Besides, what about those people who beat a game once and are done for it forever... what are the chances they keep buying games?

An amusing paralel with the used book industry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/28/technology/28scene.html?ex=1280203200&en=33765024cbf62d4c&ei=5090&partner=techdirt&emc=rss


This is my exactly my point of view. The used market fuels the first hand one and have the actual effect of reducing the perception of price to the consumer who sells his game after finishing it.

Take a $59,99 game. If Ihave an option of selling it on amazon or e-bay for $39, the game itself would have cost me only 20 bucks, and I will probably used it on new games.  There're gamers who doesn't accept the price tag for new games. When they buy used games, their moneys goes to guys who usually do that and that will use this money to buy new games.

There are probably cases when people wouldn't even buy a console for lack of a used market since he doesn't feel like paying $59,99 for a game. The used market allows for a kind of price differentiation, where people pay more or less what they feel rigth and the market is bigger because of that.

If they succeed in killing the used market, it would shrink considerably in value, because the big guys would have to drop pricesw in order to mantain the same level of revenue. Bye bye $59,99 games.

New IPs would be rare, since most wouldn't risk buying something unknown, since you wouldn't be able to rent, borrow or sell back. Gamers as a group would lose with this asinine decision. Hope they fail.



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