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Forums - General - I finally finished reading the Harry Potter series

Lucas-Rio said:
The serie has been finished 5 years ago, spoilers are not in use anymore to speak about it.

Yeah,I know.But I'm still not comfortable giving out key plot details from the books,guess it's become a habit .



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Meh, Deathly Hallows is just bad. Elder Wand lore that comes from nowhere, makes no sense and is just typical lazy deus ex machina meant to drive the plot. That and the final battle is pretty anti-climactic and the epilogue is just atrociously "and they lived happily ever after." I would be happier with the series if I had never read the last book.



themanwithnoname's law: As an America's sales or NPD thread grows longer, the probabilty of the comment "America = World" [sarcasticly] being made approaches 1.

themanwithnoname said:

Meh, Deathly Hallows is just bad. Elder Wand lore that comes from nowhere, makes no sense and is just typical lazy deus ex machina meant to drive the plot. That and the final battle is pretty anti-climactic and the epilogue is just atrociously "and they lived happily ever after." I would be happier with the series if I had never read the last book.


I disagree. I thought it was great.

The only thing I did not like with the Deathly Hallows is that when you have the three, you are the master of death. But in fact it change nothing to be master of death. No special powers or ability. It is just owning the 3 hallows not more. I thought Rowling took an easy shortcut.

it would have been more epic if Harry had special powers with that.

The superior wand plot was a good find as it was the perfect way to organize the ending. The only thing not logical with that Wand was Dumbledore able to crush Grindelwald when the dark wizard had the Wand.

How was that possible? We will never know. But the powerful Wand was the perfect link from Dumbledore to Harry.



themanwithnoname said:

Meh, Deathly Hallows is just bad. Elder Wand lore that comes from nowhere, makes no sense and is just typical lazy deus ex machina meant to drive the plot. That and the final battle is pretty anti-climactic and the epilogue is just atrociously "and they lived happily ever after." I would be happier with the series if I had never read the last book.

You can dislike the Elder Wand storyline (and I'm not crazy about it) but it's definitely not a deus ex machina. Nothing is solved through the Elder Wand. The Elder Wand doesn't fix or really even change anything. It's an item to pursue that Voldemort thinks will fix his problem when the point is that, ultimately, his failure is pursuit of objects in the first place.

With or without the Elder Wand, Voldemort loses. I think it was a mistake to make such a fuss over the Disarming of Malfoy/Snape but that's really just me quibbling over details.

You can argue, however, that wands having the ability to fight, choose their owner, etc. is a deus ex machina. But it's not one that really bothered me.




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Lucas-Rio said:

I disagree. I thought it was great.

The only thing I did not like with the Deathly Hallows is that when you have the three, you are the master of death. But in fact it change nothing to be master of death. No special powers or ability. It is just owning the 3 hallows not more. I thought Rowling took an easy shortcut.

it would have been more epic if Harry had special powers with that.

The superior wand plot was a good find as it was the perfect way to organize the ending. The only thing not logical with that Wand was Dumbledore able to crush Grindelwald when the dark wizard had the Wand.

How was that possible? We will never know. But the powerful Wand was the perfect link from Dumbledore to Harry.

The "master of death" bit was nothing more than fable. It was called as such when Dumbledore said it was more likely that three very powerful wizards created the items, not that there was an actual battle with death. Voldemort's folly was believing in the mythology of the devices as a cure-all for his problems (an anti-deus ex machina, if anything).

I also wondered about how Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald when he had the Elder Wand. But given the rest of the book's theme about how the pursuit for power and objects is nothing more than folly, I'll give Rowling the benefit of the doubt and just say the point is that nothing is "all powerful", even the Elder Wand. It's just a really, really good wand.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

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rocketpig said:
themanwithnoname said:

Meh, Deathly Hallows is just bad. Elder Wand lore that comes from nowhere, makes no sense and is just typical lazy deus ex machina meant to drive the plot. That and the final battle is pretty anti-climactic and the epilogue is just atrociously "and they lived happily ever after." I would be happier with the series if I had never read the last book.

You can dislike the Elder Wand storyline (and I'm not crazy about it) but it's definitely not a deus ex machina. Nothing is solved through the Elder Wand. The Elder Wand doesn't fix or really even change anything. It's an item to pursue that Voldemort thinks will fix his problem when the point is that, ultimately, his failure is pursuit of objects in the first place.

With or without the Elder Wand, Voldemort loses. I think it was a mistake to make such a fuss over the Disarming of Malfoy/Snape but that's really just me quibbling over details.

Perhaps not in the strictest sense of the word, but it's still an incredibly convenient thing to invent just to give Voldemort something to try to attain. If it was mentioned in earlier books, I wouldn't be as down on it as I am, but if you consider the implications the events of the book have on wand ownership, there is a fundamental logic breakdown with how the Elder Wand is handled in the book. I just think that there was a better solution than inventing a whole new lore in the last book of the series because she couldn't think of something better for Voldemort to do. That's always been the way I've felt. It just comes off as incredibly convenient and clear signs that she had no plan for how this series was going to end from the start. Some people may not have a problem with that, but I do.



themanwithnoname's law: As an America's sales or NPD thread grows longer, the probabilty of the comment "America = World" [sarcasticly] being made approaches 1.

rocketpig said:
Lucas-Rio said:

I disagree. I thought it was great.

The only thing I did not like with the Deathly Hallows is that when you have the three, you are the master of death. But in fact it change nothing to be master of death. No special powers or ability. It is just owning the 3 hallows not more. I thought Rowling took an easy shortcut.

it would have been more epic if Harry had special powers with that.

The superior wand plot was a good find as it was the perfect way to organize the ending. The only thing not logical with that Wand was Dumbledore able to crush Grindelwald when the dark wizard had the Wand.

How was that possible? We will never know. But the powerful Wand was the perfect link from Dumbledore to Harry.

The "master of death" bit was nothing more than fable. It was called as such when Dumbledore said it was more likely that three very powerful wizards created the items, not that there was an actual battle with death. Voldemort's folly was believing in the mythology of the devices as a cure-all for his problems (an anti-deus ex machina, if anything).

I also wondered about how Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald when he had the Elder Wand. But given the rest of the book's theme about how the pursuit for power and objects is nothing more than folly, I'll give Rowling the benefit of the doubt and just say the point is that nothing is "all powerful", even the Elder Wand. It's just a really, really good wand.

Even if it was not "all powerful", it was still a very very powerfull wand as we have seen. Grindelwald was no slouch and was close to Dumbledore abilities. im losing with the wand was illogical for me but we accept it as no indications at how the fight went is given.



themanwithnoname said:
rocketpig said:
themanwithnoname said:

Meh, Deathly Hallows is just bad. Elder Wand lore that comes from nowhere, makes no sense and is just typical lazy deus ex machina meant to drive the plot. That and the final battle is pretty anti-climactic and the epilogue is just atrociously "and they lived happily ever after." I would be happier with the series if I had never read the last book.

You can dislike the Elder Wand storyline (and I'm not crazy about it) but it's definitely not a deus ex machina. Nothing is solved through the Elder Wand. The Elder Wand doesn't fix or really even change anything. It's an item to pursue that Voldemort thinks will fix his problem when the point is that, ultimately, his failure is pursuit of objects in the first place.

With or without the Elder Wand, Voldemort loses. I think it was a mistake to make such a fuss over the Disarming of Malfoy/Snape but that's really just me quibbling over details.

Perhaps not in the strictest sense of the word, but it's still an incredibly convenient thing to invent just to give Voldemort something to try to attain. If it was mentioned in earlier books, I wouldn't be as down on it as I am, but if you consider the implications the events of the book have on wand ownership, there is a fundamental logic breakdown with how the Elder Wand is handled in the book. I just think that there was a better solution than inventing a whole new lore in the last book of the series because she couldn't think of something better for Voldemort to do. That's always been the way I've felt. It just comes off as incredibly convenient and clear signs that she had no plan for how this series was going to end from the start. Some people may not have a problem with that, but I do.

And that's fair. It didn't really bother me because it was established relatively early that Voldemort was a collector of rare and sought-after objects. The secrecy behind the Elder Wand makes sense given the wand's tumultuous history and the death that surrounds it. Having Dumbledore carry it in secret kind of makes sense. No one intelligent would want the world to know they have the Elder Wand.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

themanwithnoname said:
rocketpig said:
themanwithnoname said:

Meh, Deathly Hallows is just bad. Elder Wand lore that comes from nowhere, makes no sense and is just typical lazy deus ex machina meant to drive the plot. That and the final battle is pretty anti-climactic and the epilogue is just atrociously "and they lived happily ever after." I would be happier with the series if I had never read the last book.

You can dislike the Elder Wand storyline (and I'm not crazy about it) but it's definitely not a deus ex machina. Nothing is solved through the Elder Wand. The Elder Wand doesn't fix or really even change anything. It's an item to pursue that Voldemort thinks will fix his problem when the point is that, ultimately, his failure is pursuit of objects in the first place.

With or without the Elder Wand, Voldemort loses. I think it was a mistake to make such a fuss over the Disarming of Malfoy/Snape but that's really just me quibbling over details.

Perhaps not in the strictest sense of the word, but it's still an incredibly convenient thing to invent just to give Voldemort something to try to attain. If it was mentioned in earlier books, I wouldn't be as down on it as I am, but if you consider the implications the events of the book have on wand ownership, there is a fundamental logic breakdown with how the Elder Wand is handled in the book. I just think that there was a better solution than inventing a whole new lore in the last book of the series because she couldn't think of something better for Voldemort to do. That's always been the way I've felt. It just comes off as incredibly convenient and clear signs that she had no plan for how this series was going to end from the start. Some people may not have a problem with that, but I do.

The Wand gave Harry the opportunity to kill a superior wizard.

But this is clearly not the most important. The most important was bringing Voldemort back to a mortal state. It is the first mystery of the serie. Why Voldemort can't die?  And I think it's very clear that Roowling knew from the beginning what's going on with that and the answer was completelly logic.

This was the most important point for me. The motivation to kill Harry was there too.

The Wand was a mean justified by the fact that Harry's wand was protected against his own Wand. It is mainly a mean. Rowling could have said that Harry sniped Voldemort through a window with a Avada Kedavra but I guess that she wanted to show that Voldermort was too powerful and that he had to die by its own hand.



jonager said:
anyway guys , i haven't read a book since The wise man's fear a couple of months ago. Can you recomend me some good fantasy book or series worth reading?


It's more of a historical sci-fi than a fantasy, but I suggest Guns of the South. It's the story about people and nations choosing their destinies and analyzing why they fight despite the extreme costs.