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Forums - General - Why can't some Christians accept Evolution?

angrypoolman said:
Runa216 said:
angrypoolman said:
but seriously, you guys, how can ANYBODY (christian or not) accept the notion that we came from a slime that existed a couple billion years ago?

just becuase you don't understand the biological processes that go into millions...no, BILLIONS of years of evolution doesn't mean they don't make sense. Ignorance at its purest. 



oh, believe me.. i understand what they want us to believe.

Want you to believe? Oh really?

Then I guess I must be getting fake results when I study conservation of RNAs through polymorfism chains between Archae and Eubacterya or the Epigenetic effect of hystone H1, H2A and H2B between hereditary lineages of multi-species. Heck, I must change my master's degree, since it's all lies.

I've seen quite a lot of misinformation on this thread to have quite a few chuckles for the past weeks. Evolution is not simply "We came from a single archae bacteria that developed when the conditions of the Nitrogen and Carbon filled oceans of 3.5 Billions ago were jolted by the extreme conditions of the planet". 

To understand evolution you have to understand some basic genetic concepts. You have to understand polymorfisms, DNA and (much more importantly) RNA conservation, epigenetics, methylations, acylations and many other concepts. 

Do you know that us, human, have a 90% homology in our mitochondrial RNA matrixes (produced by the mitochondrial DNA) in comparison with early pre-historic Archaebacteria? We're talking about having a rather similar code to organisms that lived far beyond the time of humans.

If you look at evolution only on Darwin terms, then you're missing the rather huge picture that explains everything in much more detail: Genetics.



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lestatdark said:

Want you to believe? Oh really?

Then I guess I must be getting fake results when I study conservation of RNAs through polymorfism chains between Archae and Eubacterya or the Epigenetic effect of hystone H1, H2A and H2B between hereditary lineages of multi-species. Heck, I must change my master's degree, since it's all lies.

I've seen quite a lot of misinformation on this thread to have quite a few chuckles for the past weeks. Evolution is not simply "We came from a single archae bacteria that developed when the conditions of the Nitrogen and Carbon filled oceans of 3.5 Billions ago were jolted by the extreme conditions of the planet". 

To understand evolution you have to understand some basic genetic concepts. You have to understand polymorfisms, DNA and (much more importantly) RNA conservation, epigenetics, methylations, acylations and many other concepts. 

Do you know that us, human, have a 90% homology in our mitochondrial RNA matrixes (produced by the mitochondrial DNA) in comparison with early pre-historic Archaebacteria? We're talking about having a rather similar code to organisms that lived far beyond the time of humans.

If you look at evolution only on Darwin terms, then you're missing the rather huge picture that explains everything in much more detail: Genetics.

Sadly you're wasting your time.  Right as you may be, no amount of evidence will change his mind. "It's all just a liberal agenda, maaannn."  People with their heads this far up their asses can't see the light for the shit that surrounds them, or something.  



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angrypoolman said:
Runa216 said:
angrypoolman said:
but seriously, you guys, how can ANYBODY (christian or not) accept the notion that we came from a slime that existed a couple billion years ago?

just becuase you don't understand the biological processes that go into millions...no, BILLIONS of years of evolution doesn't mean they don't make sense. Ignorance at its purest. 



oh, believe me.. i understand what they want us to believe.

quick, get the tinfoil! 



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Runa216 said:
lestatdark said:

Want you to believe? Oh really?

Then I guess I must be getting fake results when I study conservation of RNAs through polymorfism chains between Archae and Eubacterya or the Epigenetic effect of hystone H1, H2A and H2B between hereditary lineages of multi-species. Heck, I must change my master's degree, since it's all lies.

I've seen quite a lot of misinformation on this thread to have quite a few chuckles for the past weeks. Evolution is not simply "We came from a single archae bacteria that developed when the conditions of the Nitrogen and Carbon filled oceans of 3.5 Billions ago were jolted by the extreme conditions of the planet". 

To understand evolution you have to understand some basic genetic concepts. You have to understand polymorfisms, DNA and (much more importantly) RNA conservation, epigenetics, methylations, acylations and many other concepts. 

Do you know that us, human, have a 90% homology in our mitochondrial RNA matrixes (produced by the mitochondrial DNA) in comparison with early pre-historic Archaebacteria? We're talking about having a rather similar code to organisms that lived far beyond the time of humans.

If you look at evolution only on Darwin terms, then you're missing the rather huge picture that explains everything in much more detail: Genetics.

Sadly you're wasting your time.  Right as you may be, no amount of evidence will change his mind. "It's all just a liberal agenda, maaannn."  People with their heads this far up their asses can't see the light for the shit that surrounds them, or something.  

The thing is, I really don't care if people believe humans are some kind of "special" being that somehow isn't bound by the same biological rules as any other living being as some people here declared. People are free to believe whatever they choose to believe.

Now in the case of angrypoolman, he's making a mockery of one of the most valid fields in science nowadays and calls it all a conspiracy, as if everyone working on that field has no validity whatsoever and we're only trying to fool everyone else. It sickens me when people use that kind of agenda to discredit people who actually work hard in their field.



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lestatdark said:
Runa216 said:
lestatdark said:

Want you to believe? Oh really?

Then I guess I must be getting fake results when I study conservation of RNAs through polymorfism chains between Archae and Eubacterya or the Epigenetic effect of hystone H1, H2A and H2B between hereditary lineages of multi-species. Heck, I must change my master's degree, since it's all lies.

i just dont see what any of this has to do with the notion that everything on earth has a common ancestor. yes, i see you have named some histone families. but because you can distinguish the different kinds and see which species can relate on that level DOES NOT mean that they have a common ancestor. it seems to me that it is kind of a leap. sorry if that makes me ignorant, but i just feel that id need more evidence before i came to that conclusion.

 
I've seen quite a lot of misinformation on this thread to have quite a few chuckles for the past weeks. Evolution is not simply "We came from a single archae bacteria that developed when the conditions of the Nitrogen and Carbon filled oceans of 3.5 Billions ago were jolted by the extreme conditions of the planet".

evolution can be defined (and i have seen it defined) in many many different ways, but in its simplest form, to my ignorant understanding, it is a change in frequency of a gene in a particular gene pool. if this is how evolution is defined, then that is certainly not something i have a problem with.

now this is a definition of  'the general theory of evolution' by dr. kirkwood at southampton university: it is a theory that all the living organisms of the world have arisen from a single source which itself came from an inorganic form.

are these not good working definitions? or are you just going to add more? because its already confusing as hell. when people are talking about evolution, they have no fucking clue what they are talking about.

 
To understand evolution you have to understand some basic genetic concepts. You have to understand polymorfisms, DNA and (much more importantly) RNA conservation, epigenetics, methylations, acylations and many other concepts. 

well.. i do understand the basics. i can at least say that much for myself. i am still not 100% sold. am i just ignorant and i need to learn more?

Do you know that us, human, have a 90% homology in our mitochondrial RNA matrixes (produced by the mitochondrial DNA) in comparison with early pre-historic Archaebacteria? We're talking about having a rather similar code to organisms that lived far beyond the time of humans.

again, i cant look at this and say ok this is evidence that we have a common ancestor with archaebacteria. is this the conclusion that i am supposed to be coming to? if it is, i think it would be a little hasty.

If you look at evolution only on Darwin terms, then you're missing the rather huge picture that explains everything in much more detail: Genetics.

anyways, im just not sold that we have a common ancestor with all living things here on earth. that is all that i am saying. runa216 thinks that i dont believe because i have my head so far up my ass. i guess if i were just smarter, i would come to the same conclusion you guys are?

 

Sadly you're wasting your time.  Right as you may be, no amount of evidence will change his mind. "It's all just a liberal agenda, maaannn."  People with their heads this far up their asses can't see the light for the shit that surrounds them, or something.  

The thing is, I really don't care if people believe humans are some kind of "special" being that somehow isn't bound by the same biological rules as any other living being as some people here declared. People are free to believe whatever they choose to believe.

Now in the case of angrypoolman, he's making a mockery of one of the most valid fields in science nowadays and calls it all a conspiracy, as if everyone working on that field has no validity whatsoever and we're only trying to fool everyone else. It sickens me when people use that kind of agenda to discredit people who actually work hard in their field.





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angrypoolman said:

 

Might be worth starting with what are your conclusions on evolution are with the knowledge you have. Might make debating a bit easier.



spurgeonryan said:
Scoobes said:
angrypoolman said:

 

Might be worth starting with what are your conclusions on evolution are with the knowledge you have. Might make debating a bit easier.


Just saw this. This debate is not on whether evolution is real or not Angrypoolman. Of course it is real. It is why it cannot be accepted by some. People have said in the past that it has to do with education. That does not automatically mean "school" education.



..? you mean variation in allele frequency? yes, that is real. its common sense. i have never once argued against that.

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Before anyone tries explaining what evolution is to Christians, I think that you must make them aware of what a theory is in the fields of science. Disbelievers misinterpret a theory for a hypothesis.

Here is how the two are contrasted via Wikipedia, which is identical to how my science professors have explained it.

"Hypotheses are individual empirically testable conjectures, while theories are collections of hypotheses that are logically linked together into a coherent explanation of some aspect of reality and which have individually or jointly received some empirical support."

A perfect example of how the word theory has been misinterpreted, in the United States at least, is the term "Kennedy Assassination Conspiracy 'Theories'". There has not been a single theory to the conspiracy claims of the Kennedy assassination, as none of the claims have contained "collections of hypotheses that are logically linked together into a coherent explanation of some aspect of reality and which have individually or jointly received some empirical support."

Additionally, the only subject that is truly factually based is mathematics. Even gravity is a theory, via Newton's Theory of Gravitation. If Christians are going to disbelieve evolution, they should also disbelieve gravity.



TC_Squared said:
Before anyone tries explaining what evolution is to Christians, I think that you must make them aware of what a theory is in the fields of science. Disbelievers misinterpret a theory for a hypothesis.

Here is how the two are contrasted via Wikipedia, which is identical to how my science professors have explained it.

"Hypotheses are individual empirically testable conjectures, while theories are collections of hypotheses that are logically linked together into a coherent explanation of some aspect of reality and which have individually or jointly received some empirical support."

A perfect example of how the word theory has been misinterpreted, in the United States at least, is the term "Kennedy Assassination Conspiracy 'Theories'". There has not been a single theory to the conspiracy claims of the Kennedy assassination, as none of the claims have contained "collections of hypotheses that are logically linked together into a coherent explanation of some aspect of reality and which have individually or jointly received some empirical support."

Additionally, the only subject that is truly factually based is mathematics. Even gravity is a theory, via Newton's Theory of Gravitation. If Christians are going to disbelieve evolution, they should also disbelieve gravity.


but christians dont have a problem with evolution. what they have a problem with is the notion that every living organism has a common ancestor. just wanted to clear that up for.. i dunno, i think the third time? because people cant seem to grasp this concept for whatever reason.

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Well I don't have time to read every page. This is often because atheists and many Scientists bundle all of Evolution theory with fact.

Evolution occurs and within a species is fact. However their is little evidence of a species completely changing into another. Most evidence is circumstantial. Many also don't believe much of what scientists say because they are often wrong. In history how much Science still remains proven fact? Not much.

Also the fossil record is inconsistent. Species are found on a regular basis that are supposed to be extinct some over 400 million years ago. Yet their found living and breathing today. So when a scientist says this animal was.extinct 400 million years ago or a billion years ago not many take them seriously.

Abiogenesis and Big Bang theory are both unlikely to ever be recognized. Because they are used to disprove God which they might but they also might not.

Many Christians today support Micro Evolution and even convergent evolution. They will not support anything that is scientific theory. Only fact.

Christians often hold a view that the English translation Genesis is completely fact. If they read the actual Hebrew and other translations. Their is reason to believe that the story was fact but not as the English translation necessarily says.

The Genesis story does not explain in detail how God created the earth. So much theology and interpretation involved. No believer in any belief system is going to be swayed by anything not entirely proven in fact. As such Atheists and Christians and Jews, Muslims they will never be swayed and science will never prove God does or does not exist.



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