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Forums - General Discussion - Why can't some Christians accept Evolution?

ithis said:

We disn't evolve FROM apes. We avolved in parralel, from a common ancestor probably many many years ago (2 million?) Apes are still here because the environment alowed them to, and they adapted and were able tu survive (the ones that are here today, many died out in the meantime).

Evolution does NOT pretend to explain how life appeared.

Evolution happens all the time. It doesn't stop. The effects of it are (more) visible when the environment changes since usually that requires favorises adaptation and phisical adaptation is as good as any (one other being behavioral adaptation). If the change you got is benefic you will have many offsprings and carry on the blodline (something like this).

- If conditions were to drastically change tomorow, many of the living things would die. the resilient would live, and then would adapt to the new conditions, both fisically and other.

Evolution does not mean that all the living things UPGRADE all the time. It means that the living things adapt to their environment as best as they can. Ancient fish in the American rivers have no problems surviving, they don't require any upgrades (well, they didn't require them untill the asian carp arrived that is). The apparent stopping of the evolution is due to the fact that they are close to optimally upgraded for what they do and where they do it, and all variations that appear are not more successfull than the base moddel, so they don't have may offsprings and don't influence the specie's genepool much (if at all) (again, something like this).

 

Thanks for clearing that up more politely then some others as well, things get a bit skeptical here though as we come from a common ancestor yet ended up different, if we all evolved to the best possible route why would a common ancestor split into different creatures?

 

From my understanding the simplest creatures are meant to be the strongest as they're more resilient to drastic change virus', bacteria and so on. Would those fish perhaps fall into this category?



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thranx said:
spurgeonryan said:
MrBubbles said:
plenty of christians believe in evolution and the big bang theory.


Come on now! Most kids growing up in a religous home get taught many things, one of them is that Evolution is wrong!

 

I am sure there are some Christians who believe that, but I assure you a majority refuse to!


If your talking about the US. I think you would be wrong. I think you are generalising christians all together when they should not be. There are many types with many different levels of belief. I think many non christians mistake the veiws of christians. I have personaly never met a single person who does not believe in some part of evolution. At the same time, evolution is still a theory and is not the end all be all explanation for life and how we came to be.

 

using the word theory as if it is just a guess until we have proof of something else is undermining the term quite a bit.

A theory is a carefully put together explanation of why things happen.

In terms of "speciation", which is what the theory of evolution attempts to explain, it is an explanation why speciation occurs.

Micro-evolution is a proven process. It is testable and repeatable and predictable. However, the main problem that people have with evolution is that scientists extrapolate this micro evolution across species into larger genera. There isn't much evidence to support this because there is simply no way to test it or show it within the short span of time we've been around.

However, the concept of evolution is 100% proven. Nothing will prove it wrong.

There is no, like, graduation from theory to law or fact etc etc, because they all mean different things. A theory in day to day conversation is not scientific theory.



bouzane said:
MaulerX said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
MaulerX said:
But isn't the theory of evolution.....a theory? Until this very day scientists have not been able to prove with any type of certainty that evolution is what got us from ape to human, even though that's exactly what they're pitching. And to be honest, there are plenty of non Christians that don't believe in evolution for that very reason. A theory is a theory.


Please read: http://notjustatheory.com/ Don't worry, it's short and easy to digest.

 

And the fact still remains that science has not proven evolution with any type of certainty, as referenced in that very link you posted. IMO the different meanings of the word "theory" become irrelevent as long as that fact remains. Ironically, it is people in the scientific community that refuse to accept things that have not been proven to a certainty.

 

Personally I believe that some things have evolved, but that not everything has evolved. If certain things evolved from an origin, then how did the origin came to be?  I believe that there are questions that we may never know the answer to.


Gravity is just a theory genius.


My understanding is that Gravity is a law, but a theory is used to explain WHY it happens.



@mauler
a law is a mathematical or explanation of what happens.
a theory is WHY it happens.
A fact is that it happens.

Gravity exists (fact). It occurs as a result of the interaction between size, distance, and mass of two objects (law). These variables interact because the denser and larger an object is, the more gravitons it absorbs, and thereby expels. When a graviton enters a body, it cause another graviton to be ejected, thereby very slightly moving the body toward the direction that the particle came in. The denser the object, the harder it is to move. If you can imagine gravitons hitting the object at every angle on a gigantic scale (billions per nanometer), then gravitons radiate from the planet in a spherical expulsion. Again, the denser an object, the more particles per nanometer it can emit. When that concentration of gravitons hits another object, it pulls them with a strength equal to the difference between the mass, size and distance of the two objects (theory).
The density determines the particles per inch, the size ratio determines the trajectory of expulsion, and the distance determines the spread of the particle "net".
In numbers, this would reflect the number of particles (1 per inch vs 1trillion), hitting the object obtusely vs acutely (think of earth vs sun, vs, earth vs venus....walls work best as they pull the entire object), and 1billion particles hitting something at a certain angle 1 mile away vs 1 particle hitting something at a certain angle a billion miles away.

 

Well that was more of fact, law, mathematical law.

The theory is that, particles entering and exiting bodies exert forces upon each other.



Marks said:
Scoobes said:
Chunkysatsuma said:
Christians not the brightest bunch? For real?

The large portion of the best and most important scientists, poets, artists etc were christian

The two theories people are defending on here (Big Bang and Evolution) were created by Christian scientists

Beer was first mass produced by Christian Monks

Your move Sherlock :p

Beer was invented and mass produced way before Christians, like thousands of years before by Ancient Egyptians. It was pivotal to their society:

http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/beer.html


He said mass produced

Since when is providing/supplying an entire country not mass production? During monument building beer was integral for the workers and was thus "mass" produced.



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BlkPaladin said:
bouzane said:

The same reason why they thought the Earth was a flat disc in the center of the Universe, because the Church is still trying to further the Dark Ages to harm the advancement of mankind. Remember that the greatest enemy humanity ever had has not changed over the centuries.

It was the Catholic Church that caused the dark ages. But they also surpress knowledge of the bible also by keeping it in a laungage that could not be read by the common man.

The bible while it isn't a scientific book is very acurate about science when it does touch on the matter. The Mosaic Law coventant contains heath codes that serverly went against the grain of the times. Such as the removal of excurment from living areas. The egyptians of the time were using urine and excurment as medicines.

The word used to describe the shape of the earth in Job is the same word used for sphere. It also described the earth as hanging on nothing. In the book of Isaiah there is a poetic description of the Water Cycle.

 

And in my last post I sould of been a little clearer. Creationist isn't a person who believes in creation. It a person who believes in the literal (as oppose to figurative) interpetation of the bible's verses in spite of proff otherwise. They believe that the universe and earth where created in 7 24-hour days. As oppose to believing in a creator.

Where on Earth did you get that from? My understanding is the Egyptians were the most advanced medics of the time. They used honey as an antiseptic (which it is), willow bark to dress wounds (again a natural antiseptic), were clean (washed everyday) and treated chest infections with steam. They also had sophisticated surgery equipment for the time. 



MaulerX said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
MaulerX said:
But isn't the theory of evolution.....a theory? Until this very day scientists have not been able to prove with any type of certainty that evolution is what got us from ape to human, even though that's exactly what they're pitching. And to be honest, there are plenty of non Christians that don't believe in evolution for that very reason. A theory is a theory.


Please read: http://notjustatheory.com/ Don't worry, it's short and easy to digest.

 

And the fact still remains that science has not proven evolution with any type of certainty, as referenced in that very link you posted. IMO the different meanings of the word "theory" become irrelevent as long as that fact remains. Ironically, it is people in the scientific community that refuse to accept things that have not been proven to a certainty.

 

Personally I believe that some things have evolved, but that not everything has evolved. If certain things evolved from an origin, then how did the origin came to be?  I believe that there are questions that we may never know the answer to.

If you want to get philosophical about it then you can never "prove" anything in science or religion. You can only disprove previous work. For some people (namely creationists) they think evolution disproves their interpretation of the bible, thus feel threatened by it and deny it. Some of the minor details of evolution have been disproven and new theories have arisen and improved our understanding, but evolution as a whole has never been disproven. On the contrary, more evidence has arisen to support it. If new evidence actually arise that disproves evolution, then the scientific community will change their views.

As for how life arose, that's not really evolution per-se, rather abiogenesis. It's a huge area of research with numerous theories (too many to cover in a post), but you can google it for more info. There's loads on the topic.



Wyrdness said:
Jumpin said:
Wyrdness said:
I'm not religious but Evolution although logical is still a theory and not an absolute fact so the's no real reason why they should accept it tbh.

You are describing a hunch theory, not a scientific theorem - a scientific theorem is an equation of scientific facts which has to be proven via the scienfific process. whereas a hunch theory is simply just a gut feeling (informed or uninformed) - two different things.

The theory of evolution (for example) does utilize the fact that creatures evolve, the fact of natural selection, the fact of sexual selection, the fact of genetic drift, the fact of maco and micro mutations, etc....


It's not an absolute fact though

Well it can't be because it is a theorem. It is like saying 2 + 3 = 5 isn't true because it is an equation rather than a number.

Let me put it to you this way, a scientific theory is uses a collection of scientific facts and laws organized in order to explain an observation or process - or another fact or collection of facts. So the theory of evolution is not a scientific fact because of its nature; but I'll put it this way in terms of the word "fact" that you are using as in "something that is proven true" - Evolution is a fact.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Brain... hurting... too much... insanity.

I can't believe that in 2012, people still use the "but it's just a THEORY" argument. Shit, learn what you're arguing, you twits.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

This is a really stupid thread. I myself am half Christian (Protestant) and I accept evolution and the Big Bang theory. Happy? This thread would be much more reasonable if it was made 40 years ago.