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Forums - Gaming - In your opinion, have Japanese games as a whole fallen in quality in this gen?

with a few exceptions I fully agree, but I realized that already back in 2008 or so.



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JGarret said:

Nintendo´s games have been really huge this generation (WiiSports/NSMB Wii/Mario Kart Wii, etc.), but remove them and it seems most of the other big hits have all been Western games this generation.Have Japanese developers as a whole fallen out of touch with Western gamers?....when did this start happening?

To me, Nintendo is the odd one here because their games, in general, have been far superior (in my opinion) when compared to the previous generation, but a lot of other high profile Japanese games seem to be disappointing when compared to previous generations (Resident Evil 5 sales disagree with me, but maybe you don´t).

Remember the days of the PS1/N64 and even the previous generation, surely there weren´t so many Western big hits back then.

So, I definitely noticed a fall in quality.

Though, the Demon´s/Dark Souls games are a nice surprise :)

Besides those two and Metal Gear 4, I must agree with you. They havent got any massive hits like in the ps2 era



I think that the Japanese devlelopers(for the most part) are stuck in the past. When I played FF XIII, I couldn't believe how corny the dialogue was. If I was 10 or 15 years younger, I might have been able to handle that. I am of the generation where the NES was my first gaming console. I've matured, but many of the Japanese developers haven't. They are either putting out the same thing they have been for 25 years, give or take, or they are trying to copy western developers. I want a mature story. I'm still all about fantasy, but the over-the-top characters should be a thing of the past. I think all gamers want most of the core mechanics to be a part of the new iteration of their favorite gaming franchise, but we would also like to see innovation. Most of the Japanese develpers seem to have a case of lost identity, or remaking past games that were successes. Most of us want more.



Nope. I play Japanese games with the same enthuthiasm as ever.

And if you observe closely you'll find that an increasing number of Japanese productions come West. Some years ago, who would have thought that games like Hyperdimension Neptune, Atelier Totori or Xenoblade could hit our shores? Those games obviously found an audience (however limited) because they keep coming. Figthing games also achieve far bigger numbers in the West than in Japan (look at Tekken 6!) and last time I checked there was no western fighting game on the market... I should also mention the success of Professor Layton and Naruto games that are a big hit in the west for example....

No the reason why there is that feeling is because big Western games are just TOO big : look at any GoTY article there's Call of Duty, Skyrim, Mass Effect, God of War, etc. everywhere. Western games are now so important that the industry itself (and the press by the way) acts like it can do without Japan and its games, like they don't exist anymore... and that is sad.



oniyide said:
took the words from my mouth, not to mention, HR is a damn first party game. Alchemist of Arland, yeah because that game is really setting the charts on fire, man Sony REALLY pushed that game to the forefront. Had it released on 360 it would have sold worse.  As for Versus, never say never, games have been jumping ship all gen.

HR is a second party game I thought it was third but after the other guy said it I looked it up on wiki and Sony published. Still not first though, Sony doesn't own quantic dream they are free to make a game on any system and they are sticking with ps3. Alchemist of Arland has two sequels out or coming out on ps3 not a single low budget jrpg has had a squel or even had a dev make another game on 360, what do you think that says about the profitability?  Also it wouldn't ahve sold worse but it would have costed alot more and the sales wouldn't have made up for the extra cost. FFXIII was as linear as a game gets and it still had to cut alot of content, the things an action rpg would have to dumb down to get on 360 would seriously compremise the game, especially if it's already over the size of a dvd, not even getting into if they use the six axis for any special moves or take advantage of the cell for AI and handling everything on screen.



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DarkDesent666 said:
Mad55 said:
The developers of eternal sonatas games have never sold well their previous titles have done worse so ill say thats not a good argument really and tales sales are proven to sell better on sony in japan ill give you that but in the western world its harder to tell as vesperia 360 may be the second best selling tales in the U.S. behind symphonia graces f will help better gauge all that though. I just think jrpgs can make a profit on either console if done right and i wouldnt say that the ps3 is the only place where jrpgs can shine and make profit. 

Sales alone don't make profit. They probably spent more making the games then ever before, espcailly since it was their first multiplat game and this gen multiplats have been more difficult and costly and they had to go back and add content for ps3 and they had to deal with. I didn't say ps3 is the only console jrpgs can shine but it's obvious that if you are making a budget game that it'd be prudent to only put it on ps3 rather then ps3 and 360 and especially rather then 360. Obviously the money MS was giving out was the only thing that even made it remotely worthwhile as neither company is releasing anything on the 360 and doesn't seem to be ever in the future. Also I don't think the games advertised when they released on the ps3 so if they got those sales with out advertisement or with less that says alot and really changes how the profit is spilt up.

You say sales alone dont make profit and state no other means of getting the profit. Just because a company doesnt make a game for a system again doesnt mean its because it did bad. The eternal sonanata developers release a game every blue moon their more well known for sound design what kind of expectations do you think namco had for that game givien the develepors history.Developers like hirunobu have stated they meet expectations with their games like blue dragon and lost odyssey. in my opinion making a budget jrpg only really benefits the ps3 more in japan not anywhere else. Also in another post you said the ff13 was hindered by the 360 bascially wheres the proof of that? You seem to be reaching real hard the developers have stated that they put everything they wanted to into 13 to make it complete. Your always gonna have extra game assets around from things that didnt fit or werent really needed. 



The japanese aesthetic had a fall from grace and went out of fashion. When they realized this, the japanese tried to adhere to western formulas with mostly unsatisfying results because it's out of their comfort zone and they didn't manage to translate their concepts well.
That's where we still stand at the moment I believe, although Demon's/Dark Souls was an excellent example of a japanese concept properly "westernized". Let's see how Capcom fares with Dragon's Dogma.

However I do fear that this tsunami of fantasy based games might be crashing down on us soon. It's just a pity that the same isn't going to happen to the FPS genre anytime soon it seems (Bioshock excepted).



Mad55 said:
DarkDesent666 said:
Mad55 said:
The developers of eternal sonatas games have never sold well their previous titles have done worse so ill say thats not a good argument really and tales sales are proven to sell better on sony in japan ill give you that but in the western world its harder to tell as vesperia 360 may be the second best selling tales in the U.S. behind symphonia graces f will help better gauge all that though. I just think jrpgs can make a profit on either console if done right and i wouldnt say that the ps3 is the only place where jrpgs can shine and make profit. 

Sales alone don't make profit. They probably spent more making the games then ever before, espcailly since it was their first multiplat game and this gen multiplats have been more difficult and costly and they had to go back and add content for ps3 and they had to deal with. I didn't say ps3 is the only console jrpgs can shine but it's obvious that if you are making a budget game that it'd be prudent to only put it on ps3 rather then ps3 and 360 and especially rather then 360. Obviously the money MS was giving out was the only thing that even made it remotely worthwhile as neither company is releasing anything on the 360 and doesn't seem to be ever in the future. Also I don't think the games advertised when they released on the ps3 so if they got those sales with out advertisement or with less that says alot and really changes how the profit is spilt up.

You say sales alone dont make profit and state no other means of getting the profit. Just because a company doesnt make a game for a system again doesnt mean its because it did bad. The eternal sonanata developers release a game every blue moon their more well known for sound design what kind of expectations do you think namco had for that game givien the develepors history.Developers like hirunobu have stated they meet expectations with their games like blue dragon and lost odyssey. in my opinion making a budget jrpg only really benefits the ps3 more in japan not anywhere else. Also in another post you said the ff13 was hindered by the 360 bascially wheres the proof of that? You seem to be reaching real hard the developers have stated that they put everything they wanted to into 13 to make it complete. Your always gonna have extra game assets around from things that didnt fit or werent really needed. 

particularly... since the only thing the 360 can essentially do everything the ps3 can except hold 50gb in videos. I mean, the game was not magically linear because of the 360. It was a design choice. As was lack of Interactivity. Other games JRPG's on 360 have shown as well as FFXIII-2 atleast in reviews seem to have pointed out, it's entirely possible to do all those on the 360.  I still enjoyed it though, as I found it addicting and fun. But I understand the faults, and the reason why people would dislike this game.

If your making a budget game, the PS3 isn't really the best platform for JRPG's, particularly in japan, the DS and PSP were. Which is why many went there.



Mad55 said:
You say sales alone dont make profit and state no other means of getting the profit. Just because a company doesnt make a game for a system again doesnt mean its because it did bad. The eternal sonanata developers release a game every blue moon their more well known for sound design what kind of expectations do you think namco had for that game givien the develepors history.Developers like hirunobu have stated they meet expectations with their games like blue dragon and lost odyssey. in my opinion making a budget jrpg only really benefits the ps3 more in japan not anywhere else. Also in another post you said the ff13 was hindered by the 360 bascially wheres the proof of that? You seem to be reaching real hard the developers have stated that they put everything they wanted to into 13 to make it complete. Your always gonna have extra game assets around from things that didnt fit or werent really needed. 


I said sales alone don't equal profit. Take LA noire, sold great, lost a ton of money. Usually when people make consoles games then stop making it on a console it's because it's not worth it and/or their last game did bad, it's one of the most common reason (another common one is the next gen comes out). Eternal sonata devs made 2 console games in a row then eternal sonata then switched to wii and then for the first time ever made a handheld game and are now  making another handheld game. You really think that's just cuz? Both those games you stated haven't gotten a sequel either and were backed and published by MS, without MSes funding they would have lost money. In developers/publsihers opinions (as shown by their actions) making it on 360 isn't worth it unless MS is paying you and even then might not be.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/ffxiii-has-plenty-of-dlc-material-report It was all over the net, how did you miss it. What's more likely, they cut the content because they didn't wnat to add another 2 discs on the 360 or because they felt the game would be worse with it?

ishiki said:
particularly... since the only thing the 360 can essentially do everything the ps3 can except hold 50gb in videos. I mean, the game was not magically linear because of the 360. It was a design choice. As was lack of Interactivity. Other games JRPG's on 360 have shown and as FFXIII-2 atleast in reviews seem to have pointed out, it's entirely possible to do all those on the 360. 


If your making a budget game, the PS3 isn't really the best platform for JRPG's, particularly in japan, the DS and PSP were. Which is why many went there.

 

Oh I agree FFXIII would have been crap either way, but they cut a ton of content because of the 360 and if they knew they might be porting it later it could have influenced their design choice in making it linear. Linear is alot easier with multiple disks then non linear. Also the ps3s spes if used well can handle better AI and more on screen action then the 360 can. 

It's the best console for a budget jrpg, though granted the handhelds are a more profitable choice but that's beside the point.



For me, most Japanese games have lost a bit of quality and there are more western games on consoles now but Japanese games are still 1000 times better than western ones.

I can't help but find them extremely boring and souless, it's like they don't make something they like but they make something that think will sell.

I wish western developers had stayed on the PC. The Japanese would've never tried to be western or hand their games to western developers that way.



A banner stolen from some site xD

Release Final Fantasy Versus XIII nowwwwwwwwww!!! lol :P