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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why do people think FPS are better with Wiimote/Move?

UltimateUnknown on 19 December 2011
d21lewis said:

I think your first video proves that the Wii configuration IS better.  Yeah, he misses a few shots but goddam, does he get back on point, quickly.  AND, he's not aiming down the sites.  He's shooting from the hip.  He specifically says that the Wii Remote is so accurate that he can fine tune his shooting precision by making small movements.  For that reason, he maintains his full mobility, full field of vision, and his accuracy. 

I use handguns and rifles all of the time.  I go through serious training four times a year.  I also have to perform using special modified weapons vs. another team four times a year (called Force on Force drills).  As a result, I get to deal with various instructors.  I'm trained for combat (as well as being former military and an ex-cop with 7 years under my belt).  My instructors have said time and time again that it's not about who can get the most accurate shot.  It's about who can get a good shot off, first.  If there's a Wii configuration that uses the Classic Controller or a PS3 configration that uses the Move, I would bet my dinner that a great MC gamer would totally destroy a great Controller player 9/10.  They're just too precise.   While the controller user is trying to get on target or aim down the sites, the MC user is just shooting from the hip with blinding speed and wearing them out!

While I do greatly respect your opinion with real life combat and how motion controls work in general to parody them, I do have to say that you probably have not played much COD at all. Also I highly doubt in real life military personeel would just hip fire to keep their mobility (like the Wii guy), but rather they would ADS and hold their breath to get a better shot off. I would have imagined a better shot=accurate shot, but you probably know better.

Anyway in terms of the Wii gameplay (not real life), that person was only able to get so many kills was because majority of the people were also using motion controls and weren't ADSing. I can guarantee you, if the 1st guy was playing against the 2nd guy who was using a controller (heck even me who is average at best), he would have no chance of getting any long distance kills, and even in close range with the horrible accuracy he had. Any MP player knows that its the accuracy of your shots that is the most important aspect of multiplayer, thats why people who hip fire mostly are considered as "noobs" in the online community, as it leaves you incapable of being able to take out targets long-mid range, and is not accurate at all with the huge bullet spread over distance.



 

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amp316 on 19 December 2011

I hope that some of the people commenting do realize that you can aim aim down the sites in COD on the Wii... Put this together with the remote and tell me which is more accurate, that or the analog stick...



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sethnintendo on 19 December 2011
UltimateUnknown said:

While I do greatly respect your opinion with real life combat and how motion controls work in general to parody them, I do have to say that you probably have not played much COD at all. Also I highly doubt in real life military personeel would just hip fire to keep their mobility (like the Wii guy), but rather they would ADS and hold their breath to get a better shot off. I would have imagined a better shot=accurate shot, but you probably know better.

Anyway in terms of the Wii gameplay (not real life), that person was only able to get so many kills was because majority of the people were also using motion controls and weren't ADSing. I can guarantee you, if the 1st guy was playing against the 2nd guy who was using a controller (heck even me who is average at best), he would have no chance of getting any long distance kills, and even in close range with the horrible accuracy he had. Any MP player knows that its the accuracy of your shots that is the most important aspect of multiplayer, thats why people who hip fire mostly are considered as "noobs" in the online community, as it leaves you incapable of being able to take out targets long-mid range, and is not accurate at all with the huge bullet spread over distance.

Give me an assault rifle like the AK47, FN FAL, or Commando in BO (Wii) and good luck even at sniping me.  I can cover mid to even long range.  Sure a few shots might be off by I can quickly adjust.  Hell I have gotten the long distance shot multiple times ADS with the Wiimote/nunchuck using a MP5K.  Perhaps you are more accustomed to the dual analog and that is fine.  To try and put limitations on the Wiimote/nunchuck due to your own inabilities is not an argument. 



d21lewis on 19 December 2011
UltimateUnknown said:
d21lewis said:
 

I think your first video proves that the Wii configuration IS better.  Yeah, he misses a few shots but goddam, does he get back on point, quickly.  AND, he's not aiming down the sites.  He's shooting from the hip.  He specifically says that the Wii Remote is so accurate that he can fine tune his shooting precision by making small movements.  For that reason, he maintains his full mobility, full field of vision, and his accuracy. 

I use handguns and rifles all of the time.  I go through serious training four times a year.  I also have to perform using special modified weapons vs. another team four times a year (called Force on Force drills).  As a result, I get to deal with various instructors.  I'm trained for combat (as well as being former military and an ex-cop with 7 years under my belt).  My instructors have said time and time again that it's not about who can get the most accurate shot.  It's about who can get a good shot off, first.  If there's a Wii configuration that uses the Classic Controller or a PS3 configration that uses the Move, I would bet my dinner that a great MC gamer would totally destroy a great Controller player 9/10.  They're just too precise.   While the controller user is trying to get on target or aim down the sites, the MC user is just shooting from the hip with blinding speed and wearing them out!

While I do greatly respect your opinion with real life combat and how motion controls work in general to parody them, I do have to say that you probably have not played much COD at all. Also I highly doubt in real life military personeel would just hip fire to keep their mobility (like the Wii guy), but rather they would ADS and hold their breath to get a better shot off. I would have imagined a better shot=accurate shot, but you probably know better.

Anyway in terms of the Wii gameplay (not real life), that person was only able to get so many kills was because majority of the people were also using motion controls and weren't ADSing. I can guarantee you, if the 1st guy was playing against the 2nd guy who was using a controller (heck even me who is average at best), he would have no chance of getting any long distance kills, and even in close range with the horrible accuracy he had. Any MP player knows that its the accuracy of your shots that is the most important aspect of multiplayer, thats why people who hip fire mostly are considered as "noobs" in the online community, as it leaves you incapable of being able to take out targets long-mid range, and is not accurate at all with the huge bullet spread over distance.

I got CoD 2, CoD 4, and CoD BO on the 360.  Played CoD WaW and CoD BO on the PS3.  Also played but not purchased CoD MW2 on the 360.  I only played Metroid Prime 3 and Red Steel on the Wii.  I admit that I'm not the biggest FPS fan but one look at my collection should show that I'm not a stranger to the genre.

And, of course, I'm trained to shoot down the sites with a handgun and a rifle.  I don't think I've ever shot anything from the hip in real life.  My point was that, instead of holding your breath and trying to get a perfect shot, just get a really good shot.  I know people that can shoot a group really tightly when they have all of the time in the world.  When the instructor says, "Okay, you have three seconds.", it looks like they shoot with a shotgun.  My post was just an example, not a 1:1 analogy.  Good and quick is waaaay better than Great and slow.

I'm from the analog camp.  It's almost all I use.  I barely use a Wii and I haven't used a Move since probably March.  It's just more precise and quick.  You can fire a picture perfect shot with analog controls (some games simulate human error, though) but the trade off is speed.  Even with the "snap on target" mechanic in Call of Duty.  The Wii just lets you get more accurate shots off, faster.  I just don't see how anybody can deny this.  And, like somebody else said, you can look down the sighst with a Wii.  It's just that, for close range shots, there's never a need to.



UltimateUnknown on 19 December 2011
sethnintendo said:
 

Give me an assault rifle like the AK47, FN FAL, or Commando in BO (Wii) and good luck even at sniping me.  I can cover mid to even long range.  Sure a few shots might be off by I can quickly adjust.  Hell I have gotten the long distance shot multiple times ADS with the Wiimote/nunchuck using a MP5K.  Perhaps you are more accustomed to the dual analog and that is fine.  To try and put limitations on the Wiimote/nunchuck due to your own inabilities is not an argument. 

Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate what is better, as I have previously said that Mouse+Keyboard is better than dual analogues and I'm not saying I am good with anything.

As for the above feat, I have yet to see anyone perform it with impunity, especially the long range part that you suggest, and believe me I watch a lot of COD videos including competitive gameplay. Some of the best players on the Wii as regarded by the community either use a classic controller or mostly just hip fire close range. Anyway I would have loved to watch some of your gameplay, but unfortunately thats probably not possible. Now I feel like trying out MC for myself though just to see if I could get some good games.



 

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oniyide on 19 December 2011

I think it depends on the dev, I like GE for Wii, but Eurocom could have done a hell of alot better job with the controls. It took me too long to get the sweet spot. But KZ3 was a different beast, I did minor adjustements and have been killing with the best of them online or off. Maybe its devs, maybe the tech, maybe both.



Dr.Grass on 19 December 2011
d21lewis said:
UltimateUnknown said:

@Baroai @Kyliedog Yes both of you illustrate my point.

Btw guys I wasn't talking about single player mainly, but more about multiplayer (where there's no aim assist). Let me illustrate my point with some video evidence. Here's a video of one of the best Wii COD players I know of playing MW3 on Wii:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asFsZvr9TuE&feature=channel_video_title

As you can see and if you listen to him, with the Wiimote you can only hope to hipfire (spray and pray) to effectively take someone out in close range, while long range ADSing is almost impossible. But even hip-firing he's wasting a lot of bullets as his cross-hairs are moving all over the place. Now look at this guy playing MW3 multiplayer on 360 using normal controller:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjZMwjf5zZE&feature=channel_video_title

I chose this video intentionally as it has a good amount of Hip-firing and ADSing. As you can see clearly ADSing with controllers is smooth without any involuntary movements and even when you are hipfiring, your crosshairs stay exactly where you are pointing which makes it much easier to actually hit a guy (god forbid using a shotgun using a Wiimote).

Now both of these guys are pretty skilled and serious gamers, so its strict tactical multiplayer gameplay which I am talking about. A lot of you seem to be saying that you can aim at targets quicker with MC, but you can do so with controllers as well with 10 sensitivity if you can handle it and what good is aiming quicker if you can't be steady with your aiming? Do you really think the first guy could ever replicate the second's efficiency with his given control scheme?

I think your first video proves that the Wii configuration IS better.  Yeah, he misses a few shots but goddam, does he get back on point, quickly.  AND, he's not aiming down the sites.  He's shooting from the hip.  He specifically says that the Wii Remote is so accurate that he can fine tune his shooting precision by making small movements.  For that reason, he maintains his full mobility, full field of vision, and his accuracy. 

I use handguns and rifles all of the time.  I go through serious training four times a year.  I also have to perform using special modified weapons vs. another team four times a year (called Force on Force drills).  As a result, I get to deal with various instructors.  I'm trained for combat (as well as being former military and an ex-cop with 7 years under my belt).  My instructors have said time and time again that it's not about who can get the most accurate shot.  It's about who can get a good shot off, first.  If there's a Wii configuration that uses the Classic Controller or a PS3 configration that uses the Move, I would bet my dinner that a great MC gamer would totally destroy a great Controller player 9/10.  They're just too precise.   While the controller user is trying to get on target or aim down the sites, the MC user is just shooting from the hip with blinding speed and wearing them out!


Just stop wasting your time. The OP doesn't want to accept what you are saying. Even though it's bloody obvious to every seasoned gamer in existence.

When I was 12 I argued with my friend that I could take him on in Quake2 with a controller (I had the PSOne version, him the PC). No matter what he said, I kept disagreeing. Then, 6 years later I saw him playing Quake3 1-on-1 and I KNEW I wouldn't even be able to get a single kill against this guy. I was dead, dead wrong. Ignorant and wrong.

This is no different, perhaps just a little less extreme.



KBG29 on 19 December 2011

It takes some getting used to, and it is a lot more tiring, but once you get the feel it is amazing. Move is the the best way to play a FPS if you want the most involving, and realistic feel. Wii Mote has a couple of issues, but it is still a better time then a DS or M&K.

With that said, sometimes I just want to kick back and take in the world, and the story. So I do not use motion on my first play through of a game very often. It is a very good item for a ton of replay once you know the world, and just want to go dominate. It also makes elite difficulty way way more easy.



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UltimateUnknown on 19 December 2011
Dr.Grass said:
 


Just stop wasting your time. The OP doesn't want to accept what you are saying. Even though it's bloody obvious to every seasoned gamer in existence.

When I was 12 I argued with my friend that I could take him on in Quake2 with a controller (I had the PSOne version, him the PC). No matter what he said, I kept disagreeing. Then, 6 years later I saw him playing Quake3 1-on-1 and I KNEW I wouldn't even be able to get a single kill against this guy. I was dead, dead wrong. Ignorant and wrong.

This is no different, perhaps just a little less extreme.

Wow there's always one person who can't take a difference in opinion, or doesn't want to engage in a conversation to change someone else's opinion.

While I do stick to my guns from the evidence I have seen, I greatly enjoyed getting to know D21lewis's perspective on how he thinks motion controls work great in mimicking real life (as he has field experience). Also he is one of the nicest people I have come across on the internet. Many others' opinion as well such as SethNintendo who has played BO extensively on the Wii has actually urged me to try COD on the Wii and see for myself if I can pull off decent games on it using motion control. So please don't discourage people from presenting their opinions and perpectives on the matter, otherwise things would get very dull very quick.



 

UltimateUnknown on 19 December 2011
oniyide said:
I think it depends on the dev, I like GE for Wii, but Eurocom could have done a hell of alot better job with the controls. It took me too long to get the sweet spot. But KZ3 was a different beast, I did minor adjustements and have been killing with the best of them online or off. Maybe its devs, maybe the tech, maybe both.


Wow I have heard so many great things about KZ3 with the sharp shooter. If I had a PS3 I would definitely try it out.

Oh yea, I think the conduit had some really great motion controls (best customisation for its time) on the Wii, Goldeneye didn't feel as great as the Conduit.