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Forums - Sony - Naughty Dog: "We want to change the f***ing industry" with The Last of Us (with a focus on storytelling)

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Metrium said:

Me personaly, im starting to find them arrogant. After reading this arcticle, they sound like the entire industry is failing and that they are about to save gamers from bad games. Thats how I felt after reading it.

They are alot of rly good games out there with great story. Also, not everyone wants theyr games to become movie wannabes. Because honnestly, the Uncharted franchise didnt excell at anything except for what actualy makes a good movie. Yes it had great actors, non stop action in cinematics a la Michael Bay, UC2 had a great story. But in my opinion, great actors, nice visuals and great story are all what makes a great movie not a great game (they can certainly be a plus). Uncharted had terrible gameplay for a shooter, uninspired puzzles, bad AI and UC3 had a extremely linear campaign of 8hours. Take away about 1hour for cinematic and you have 7hours of solo content wich for a AAA game so (underservly) praised is pathetic.

I wish Naughty Dog would stop focusing on being B movie wannabes, stop doing interactive movie, and start making VIDEO GAMES again like back in the day with ratchet&clank and Crash Bandicoot.

Also, i know alot of ppl will disagree with me, and idc. I just want you all to know that I did enjoy the uncharted franchise, its just the attitude of Naughty Dog that rly gets on my nerve. How they think so highly of themselves and how they think they do games of better quality because they try to copy movies and how the entire industry should be inspired by them. And worst is those who say that ND are the best game developpers in the world... Everytime I hear that, i cant help but thinking its sarcasm lol.

Will Last of US be a good game? probably... Will it deserve all the hype its getting? I slightly doubt it but only time will tell... Will it ''Change the fucking industry''? I HIGHLY doubt it, except maybe for those who can get easely brain washed by Michael Bayesque cinematics.


I think you misunderstood what they saying...they simply said they want to raise the bar on storytelling in games. And apart from  a few good triple AAA games, story telling is pretty weak in general, even for games that tries to have a significant story component. 

Im pretty sure that arent expecting ALL games to suddenly incorporate an amazing story or some unique way of portraying that story, but only games that focus on it.

Also many people would disagree with you about your views on uncharted and how it doesnt excel at "anything except for what actualy makes a good movie", people like me :)

I also find naughty dog to be one of the more humble developers...and certianly not arrogant just based off how they have dealt with different situations (like the aim issue with U3), interviews and developer videos etc.

Oh and naughty dog didnt make ratchet and clank games think you were refering to jak and daxter



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FOR GOD'S SAKE JUST STOP IT ALREADY!!!
this game has only been annouced like 3-4 days ago!!! my hype meter can't take much more!!!



We want to change the f***ing industry


Anyone who uses vulgarities to attempt to make a statement of a goal that is something revolutionary is likely neither bright nor anywhere near capable of achieving that goal.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Shinobi-san said:
Metrium said:

Me personaly, im starting to find them arrogant. After reading this arcticle, they sound like the entire industry is failing and that they are about to save gamers from bad games. Thats how I felt after reading it.

They are alot of rly good games out there with great story. Also, not everyone wants theyr games to become movie wannabes. Because honnestly, the Uncharted franchise didnt excell at anything except for what actualy makes a good movie. Yes it had great actors, non stop action in cinematics a la Michael Bay, UC2 had a great story. But in my opinion, great actors, nice visuals and great story are all what makes a great movie not a great game (they can certainly be a plus). Uncharted had terrible gameplay for a shooter, uninspired puzzles, bad AI and UC3 had a extremely linear campaign of 8hours. Take away about 1hour for cinematic and you have 7hours of solo content wich for a AAA game so (underservly) praised is pathetic.

I wish Naughty Dog would stop focusing on being B movie wannabes, stop doing interactive movie, and start making VIDEO GAMES again like back in the day with ratchet&clank and Crash Bandicoot.

Also, i know alot of ppl will disagree with me, and idc. I just want you all to know that I did enjoy the uncharted franchise, its just the attitude of Naughty Dog that rly gets on my nerve. How they think so highly of themselves and how they think they do games of better quality because they try to copy movies and how the entire industry should be inspired by them. And worst is those who say that ND are the best game developpers in the world... Everytime I hear that, i cant help but thinking its sarcasm lol.

Will Last of US be a good game? probably... Will it deserve all the hype its getting? I slightly doubt it but only time will tell... Will it ''Change the fucking industry''? I HIGHLY doubt it, except maybe for those who can get easely brain washed by Michael Bayesque cinematics.


I think you misunderstood what they saying...they simply said they want to raise the bar on storytelling in games. And apart from  a few good triple AAA games, story telling is pretty weak in general, even for games that tries to have a significant story component. 

Im pretty sure that arent expecting ALL games to suddenly incorporate an amazing story or some unique way of portraying that story, but only games that focus on it.

Also many people would disagree with you about your views on uncharted and how it doesnt excel at "anything except for what actualy makes a good movie", people like me :)

I also find naughty dog to be one of the more humble developers...and certianly not arrogant just based off how they have dealt with different situations (like the aim issue with U3), interviews and developer videos etc.

Oh and naughty dog didnt make ratchet and clank games think you were refering to jak and daxter



Your right, it was jak and daxter, I need to edit my original post :P thx

 

And when I said that it wasnt excelling at anything, I meant that Uncharted didnt do anything that was better than every other games when it comes to gameplay. For a game that has so many ppl saying that its the best game ever, you would expect it to have something in the gameplay that is either unique or done better than any other games. But instead, everytime I hear arguments on why Uncharted is such a great game, all I always hear is ''great story, awsome graphics, great actors'' and they all seem to give UC3 a pass for its rediculously short campaign, the aiming that is average at best and the fact that not only UC3 in my opinion didnt add anything new when compared to UC2 (except for the multiplayer improvments) it failed to fix alot of problems present since UC1 like the climbing when you jump where your not suposed to for some stupid reason and that you die not because you fell from somewhere rly high but because your character landed somewhere where you were not supposed to go. I remember in UC2, when I was on a roof and I wasnt sure where i was supposed to go, I saw a other roof and i thought to myself ''I can make that jump'', so I succesfully jumped from 1 roof to the other, but I died because that wasnt where I was supposed to go despite the fact that ive seen Drake do jumps way more impressive than this one lol. Those are the kind of problems I had in UC1 and still had in UC3... Also, did Naughty Dog make any changes to the enemies AI between UC1 and UC3, cause I dont think ive ever seen a big difference.

 

But trust me, I LOVED UC2, but I guess because of that, UC3 gave me a bitter taste in my mouth when it comes to this franchise. Yes Naughty Dog made 3 rly good games, but I believe that most gamers instead of praising the game like its the holy grail of gaming (have you seen IGN's greg miller's review... gosh) gamers should talk more about these issues because those are the issues that in my opinion will always prevent a good franchise from being great. Lets all stop letting ourselves getting brainwashed by what this franchise has that makes great movies like actors and cinematics with non-stop action (super mario galaxy had non of that and in my opinion is 1 of the few true masterpiece of this generation) and lets focus on gameplay.

 

And now, the fact that Naughty Dog is talking about how theyr focus for Last of Us is cinematics and storytelling, I fear that history will repeat itself and that despite all of this the game will still be praised for the wrong reasons exactly like Uncharted.



 

What?! I can't hear you over all this awsome! - Pyrrhon (Kid Icarus:Uprising)

Final Ultimate Legendary Earth Power Super Max Justice Future Miracle Dream Beautiful Galaxy Big Bang Little Bang Sunrise Starlight Infinite Fabulous Totally Final Wonderful Arrow...FIRE! - Wonder-Red (The Wonderful101)

 

Nice, really looking forward to being engrossed in this title.



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If this was Lionhead studios or a studio like that then I would probably just shrug off all these genre defining comments from them. But this being Naughty Dog who as far as I can tell have never gotten cocky about anything or even badmouthed another developer I have to say I'm really interested in what they are going to do with The Last of Us.



I'll wait for some gameplay trailers. But since its ND developing the game I'll buy it for sure. Even if it turns out to be as bad as lair.



Shinobi-san said:
kain_kusanagi said:
I'm all for good stories in video games, but to be honest I play games for the gameplay more than the story. As great as it would be for every game to have as good of writing as Alan Wake and Uncharted I'd rather game developers focus on making the best gameplay possible. Naughty Dog has created some great characters, but the Uncharted games are kind of like interactive movies. Once you've seen the story to the end there's little reason to play the game. All the set pieces and quite a lot of the games themselves are so scripted that replaying the game is liking watching a rerun. People complained that FF13 was too linear, but I'd argue that people are giving Uncharted a pass on linearity because they like the cinematic experience.

I hope Naughty Dog does the rise the bar for storytelling in games. I just hope it doesn't mean games turn into interactive movies. I like exploring too much to want to see games be limited as much as the Uncharted games are.


For the most part, i agree with what you saying, gameplay shoud never be sacrificed for storytelling. And i hope this new game doesnt fall into that trap.

However i think your views on uncharted are slighly incorrect, but it seems many people share that same point of view. I wouldnt call uncharted an interactive movie, i would say Heavy Rain is like an interactive movie. Uncharted has a very standard game structure, that of cutscenes and levels. And for the most part, these two are seperated, and every now and then you get a big time action sequence with some QTE that gives the impression of an interactive movie.

What annoys me, is that most games follow a very similar structure...yet they dont get the branding of being linear. You also said that uncharted gets a pass on linearity...firstly it should get a pass on linearity because its not really a negative, and secondly almost every review ive read about uncharted complains about linearity. Third person shooters are generally linear, but that doesnt mean that it lacks gameplay as they dont need to be non linear to bring across the core gameplay elements.

Final fantasy on the other hand is a RPG, and in that genre games are generally not linear and for good reason. The fact that FF13 was more linear than most linear games, when it really shouldnt have been linear at all, was the main reason why so many people complained.

People also seem to equate linearity with lacklustre gameplay, i fully disagree with that. The two are not the same. If i take uncharted as an example, its a linear game with good gameplay, and a good story which is perhaps why it has such a good following.

What you say is very true. Linearity is not necessarily a bad thing. However, Uncharted, while fun, plays out like a movie. What I mean by that is, you can only make Nathan do the very specific things that the developers set up for him to do, much like how a movie's editor shows us the order of the movie. Uncharted isn't the only game like this. I'm not just talking about the QTE or set pieces, although those surely are the most severe cases. And I'm surely not talking about it's cutscenes, which should be cinematic, since they are cinematics. I'm talking about how every problem and obstacle the player faces can really only be handled in one way. This makes it so every play through of the game is practically identical. Like I said Uncharted isn't the only game like this. Enslaved is fun, but has the same issue. I just don't want every game to go for cinematic set pieces and linearity of gameplay.

When I said Uncharted gets a pass for this I meant by fans. People complain all day about Modern Warfare's rollercoaster ride, but they praise Uncharted's cinematic style. There's not much of a differences other than the quality of the writing.

On the topic of FF13 I must disagree. I don't think any Final Fantasy game has ever been truely open world, other than the online ones of course. The Final Fantasy formula and to a greater extent Japanese RPGs in general, are very linier compared to western style RPGs. What I find interesting is how long time fans argue that Square dumbed down FF13 to appeal to western gamers. In my opinion FF13 has less western appeal when you compare it to games like Elder Scrolls, Fallout, etc. I think Square just wanted to make a very cinematic Final Fantasy and to do that it always seems to mean taking control away from the player so the developer can craft a better movie instead of making a better game.



Kantor said:
amp316 said:
Kantor said:
amp316 said:

It seems as though great storytelling includes the word fuck.

Pulp Fiction managed to use it 265 times. Goodfellas is even higher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_that_most_frequently_use_the_word_%22fuck%22

..and Scarface I'm sure is pretty high too.  So is House of the Dead: Overkill and we know that that was masterful storytelling, right?

Wii owners tell me that everything about House of the Dead: Overkill is brilliant, so I suppose so, yes.

Not this Wii owner.

On topic:  I'm not against storytelling in games if it is done well.  I just don't think that it's necessary. 

My favorite series is Mario Kart and there's no story there.



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first thing they should do, is make a game for gamers instead of movie critics, the one that you will want to re-play 5 years later.  but thats just my opinion and my opinion means jackshit to uncharted fans

Crash bandicoot i can play anytime , its always fun to replay the levels, trying to get all the boxes, beat the record times, and find the hidden rooms , but thats just my opinion and my opinion means jackshit to uncharted fans

Jak and Daxter is also fun, its easy to get into , for casual and also deep and rewarding ,like have extra missions outside the main storyline, for the ones who are planning of 100% it, its in my opinion their best game yet, but thats just my opinion and my opinion means jackshit to uncharted fans

Uncharted on the other hand, once you finish it once you did everything there is to do (outside multiplayer), it feels like a huge tutorial , exactly like FFXIII and Battlefield 3 and also Call of Duty, but thats just my opinion and my opinion means jackshit to uncharted fans

i doubt this one is going to be different from Uncharted, but i have doubts , but who gives a fuck about my opinion anyways ?