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Forums - Sony Discussion - Naughty Dog: "We want to change the f***ing industry" with The Last of Us (with a focus on storytelling)

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I just saw the trailer for the first time after following that link and coupled with the quotes it's making me think it will be like 'The Walking Dead' but in a video game. It's always nice when a developer tries to push boundaries and if ND want to push the art of storytelling in games then so be it.

They're right though, too many games get praised for their storytelling when it's not really a good storyline but the world/universe building that's been done well and sucks you in.



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CGI-Quality said:

Indeed, but you needn't worry, I'll still post relevant, interesting topics in the coming months. One of them may just be something BIG on this very game!

Look forward to that!



Slimebeast said:
Call of Duty already changed (destroyed) the industry enough by copying Hollywood and the cinematic experience. In this console generation nearly all big budget games already turned from being games into being interactive movies. And now these guys are cheered for dumbing down gaming even more.

There are still games coming out where that isn't the case. The new Deus Ex did a pretty good job until the very end (actually it did a fantastic job) and there's always the elder scrolls (and numerous other RPGs).



amp316 said:

It seems as though great storytelling includes the word fuck.

"Mario, your princess is in another fucking castle."

...You're right.



I don't doubt Naughty Dog.



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Rainbird said:
Reasonable said:

I also wish when a developer wants to try something people wouldn't argue with the same boring all generalities.  They aren't trying to make every game story lead nor is that their goal.  They want their game to be that way and they want to offer better than the medium has historically in that regard.  Is it really necessary to start panicing for all other genres every time there is a focus by a single developer in a single area?

I'd say it's a natural reaction though. People see something they percieve as being overall damaging to the field, and they push against it. More rationality would certainly be welcome, but it's a polarizing subject, so opinions are bound to clash. On top of that, there is actually a small trend of moving towards more... what to call it... focused experiences? Games that restrict the player in favor of either storytelling, spectacle, cinematic flair or some combination of these basically.

And it's very much a trend I am not happy with. I personally believe gaming and storytelling can make for amazing combinations, because of the way the player can be engaged in the experience. That's what I'm hoping Naughty Dog will try to improve on with The Last Of Us, because the Uncharted games really hasn't done much in the way of this for me. A game like Heavy Rain is incredibly cinematic, but manages to engage the player in the story like few games have managed in my opinion, including Naughty Dog's previous efforts.

Which is why, when Naughty Dog say they want to set a new standard in storytelling, I'm hoping they will try do storytelling that allows the player to better connect to the game than they have previously done. I mean, even MGS4, one of the first really big so-called "interactive movie" games this generation allows the player some freedom in how they can play the game. 

So my prayer to Naughty Dog is simply that they try to explore storytelling in a way that involves the player more. 

TBH I'd say the trend to online is far stronger than the trend to focused storytelling.  In fact I'd say the trend to open world is stronger than that.  Right now I think for a lot of devs, if you look at sales/success of other games, the view would be:

a) best choice for success is hugely successful online game (you know who)

b) second best choice for success is hugely successful open world game (GTA, RDR, Assassin's Creed, Skyrim, etc)

c) third best choice for success is focused narrative (maybe with some online if we can get it)

 

After than it seems like a bit of a crapshoot depending on IP.

But I hear you and agree on the polarising side.  I mean for me, unless it's really, really good or the IP suits it I don't want any sequels, be it films or games.  I want new stuff more than proven - but I know I'm more in the minority in being true to that.  Most people say they want new stuff but what they really mean is they want the same but different - hence the huge focus on sequels when the basic formula seems to connect, be it films (well movies really) or games.

I guess the whole notion of what are game genres and what is a "game" is also changing a lot causing a lot of the attitude you mention.

Not sure I have a point here :)  but I'm just thinking ithe more variety of games and genres the better for me personally, so if ND believe they can take a fairly familair concept - survival in an apocalyptic situation - and insert far better and deeper characterisation (which strictly speaking has zero to do with gameplay in the purest sense) then I'm interested.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

CGI-Quality said:
Yeah, but you were also skeptical of HR and look how that turned out!

Remember this: "Thank God CGI is the only one excited for that game" - Kantor. Classic!

Ha, in truth, I want some game play too, but being that it's Naughty Dog, I have more faith in them than I had pre-release with Quantic Dream.


I'm completely with you, Naughty Dog shan't let us down!



           

Kantor said:

Neil Druckmann says he wants to "raise the bar" and criticises storytelling in video games.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-12-13-naughty-dog-wants-to-change-the-f-ing-industry-with-the-last-of-us

Everyone at Naughty Dog seems to be in agreement that this is more than just a standard zombie game, and ND aren't usually so strong in their wording. I'm really starting to anticipate this game (though I am still skeptical until we see gameplay).

Me personaly, im starting to find them arrogant. After reading this arcticle, they sound like the entire industry is failing and that they are about to save gamers from bad games. Thats how I felt after reading it.

They are alot of rly good games out there with great story. Also, not everyone wants theyr games to become movie wannabes. Because honnestly, the Uncharted franchise didnt excell at anything except for what actualy makes a good movie. Yes it had great actors, non stop action in cinematics a la Michael Bay, UC2 had a great story. But in my opinion, great actors, nice visuals and great story are all what makes a great movie not a great game (they can certainly be a plus). Uncharted had terrible gameplay for a shooter, uninspired puzzles, bad AI and UC3 had a extremely linear campaign of 8hours. Take away about 1hour for cinematic and you have 7hours of solo content wich for a AAA game so (underservly) praised is pathetic.

I wish Naughty Dog would stop focusing on being B movie wannabes, stop doing interactive movie, and start making VIDEO GAMES again like back in the day with jak&dexter and Crash Bandicoot.

Also, i know alot of ppl will disagree with me, and idc. I just want you all to know that I did enjoy the uncharted franchise, its just the attitude of Naughty Dog that rly gets on my nerve. How they think so highly of themselves and how they think they do games of better quality because they try to copy movies and how the entire industry should be inspired by them. And worst is those who say that ND are the best game developpers in the world... Everytime I hear that, i cant help but thinking its sarcasm lol.

Will Last of US be a good game? probably... Will it deserve all the hype its getting? I slightly doubt it but only time will tell... Will it ''Change the fucking industry''? I HIGHLY doubt it, except maybe for those who can get easely brain washed by Michael Bayesque cinematics.



 

What?! I can't hear you over all this awsome! - Pyrrhon (Kid Icarus:Uprising)

Final Ultimate Legendary Earth Power Super Max Justice Future Miracle Dream Beautiful Galaxy Big Bang Little Bang Sunrise Starlight Infinite Fabulous Totally Final Wonderful Arrow...FIRE! - Wonder-Red (The Wonderful101)

 

Im incredibly hypped up for this game but Id love to know just what the heck happened with Sony Santa Monicas next game and what will Quantic Dream do next (if theyre going multiplat or not and what game theyre working on).



kain_kusanagi said:
I'm all for good stories in video games, but to be honest I play games for the gameplay more than the story. As great as it would be for every game to have as good of writing as Alan Wake and Uncharted I'd rather game developers focus on making the best gameplay possible. Naughty Dog has created some great characters, but the Uncharted games are kind of like interactive movies. Once you've seen the story to the end there's little reason to play the game. All the set pieces and quite a lot of the games themselves are so scripted that replaying the game is liking watching a rerun. People complained that FF13 was too linear, but I'd argue that people are giving Uncharted a pass on linearity because they like the cinematic experience.

I hope Naughty Dog does the rise the bar for storytelling in games. I just hope it doesn't mean games turn into interactive movies. I like exploring too much to want to see games be limited as much as the Uncharted games are.


For the most part, i agree with what you saying, gameplay shoud never be sacrificed for storytelling. And i hope this new game doesnt fall into that trap.

However i think your views on uncharted are slighly incorrect, but it seems many people share that same point of view. I wouldnt call uncharted an interactive movie, i would say Heavy Rain is like an interactive movie. Uncharted has a very standard game structure, that of cutscenes and levels. And for the most part, these two are seperated, and every now and then you get a big time action sequence with some QTE that gives the impression of an interactive movie.

What annoys me, is that most games follow a very similar structure...yet they dont get the branding of being linear. You also said that uncharted gets a pass on linearity...firstly it should get a pass on linearity because its not really a negative, and secondly almost every review ive read about uncharted complains about linearity. Third person shooters are generally linear, but that doesnt mean that it lacks gameplay as they dont need to be non linear to bring across the core gameplay elements.

Final fantasy on the other hand is a RPG, and in that genre games are generally not linear and for good reason. The fact that FF13 was more linear than most linear games, when it really shouldnt have been linear at all, was the main reason why so many people complained.

People also seem to equate linearity with lacklustre gameplay, i fully disagree with that. The two are not the same. If i take uncharted as an example, its a linear game with good gameplay, and a good story which is perhaps why it has such a good following.



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