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Forums - General - Parents Burn Children's Genitals After Catching Them in Same-Sex Experimentation

Player1x3 said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
Player1x3 said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
Cirio said:
sapphi_snake said:
Cirio said:
And once again religion gets shoved into a topic that had nothing to do with religion whatsoever. What if these parents were *gasp* atheists and not "most likely Christian"? I honestly feel embarrassed when I read some peoples' posts on this site; which is precisely the reason I don't post here often.

There's a 57% chance that they're christians, and a 4% chance that they're atheists.

Right... and what does this have to do with religion? They didn't do this to their children because of their religion, so why bring religion into this topic?

They most likely DID do it because of their religion, Christianity, which sees homosexuality as disgusting and wrong.

Indeed, the Bible and Jesus said to burn off childrens genitals if they caught them fucking other children i just dont remember where tho. Oh yeah, that's right - Christianity is against violence and torture overall, especially against little children. But let's focus on parts I don't like and over exaggerate them as blow them out of propotion. Oh and the parents had to be absolutely christian, because, you know, we're just that fucked up xD. And as we all know, judisam, islam and Hinduism have all absolutely nothing against homosexuality at all. Just this fucked up white man' christianity that says hate the sinner, not the sin, and as we all know there's nothing more to person than his sexuality, and since Jesus tought never to forgive a sin no matter how small and insignificant, that all translates to = Christians burn off their childrens genitals if they caught them in ''homosexual'' acts(because,you know, children by age of 7 have their sexuality all figured out).

Perfect logic, there's no arguing about it

Jesus and the bible is strongly agaisnt homosexuality. 
"Christianity is agaisnst violence and torture overall"? Have you read it? What about stoning your children/wife/neighbors etc. Or what about jesus' instructions on how to beat your slaves? What about the thousands of people God killed in the bible? What about God destroying everything and everyone apart from a family and a few animals? 
And judaism and islam are just as bad if not worse, so I agree with you there.

My original point was that there is a high probability that they did it because of the idealogies of their religion, which is most likely christianity, which sees homosexuality as disgusting and wrong, so yes, there is a huge connection. 

The stuff I put in bold don't really relate to anything I said, but actually relates to the stupidity of the parents and what christianity teaches, so thanks.

After reading this, i realized u don't know shit about christianity. Sooo....where to start.

1.Jesus Christ WAS NEVER EVER AGAINST ANY GROUP OF PEOPLE. HIS TEACHINGS ARE A FOUNDING STONE OF CHRISTIANITY, AND NOT ONCE DID HE SPEAK AGAINST ANY GROUP OF PEOPLE AT ALL! Honestly, my 7 year old sister has more knowledge of christianity 

2.Stoning children and wifes??? ARE FUCKING LISTENING TO YOURSELF ??? I seriously had a MUCH HIGHER opinion of u before this post.

"Let thee who is without sin cast the first stone" <--- Sounds familiar to you? Probably not. You dont know the founding teachings of chrtianity and spew bullshit about it.

3.Beating slaves? Jesus advised slaves to be obedient to their masters TO AVOID getting beaten. He was against slavery all together, as he considered all man to be equal and children of God.

4.If you are talking about Soddom and Gomorrah

1.) Thats probably a biblical myth

2.)If GOD himself killed them, I am sure he had a good reason. I mean, if death penalty by people is approved, death penalty by the Lord himself is unquestionable

5. Noahs ark is a myth, has nothing to do with christian morals. Not that i excpect you to actually be knowledgeable about this topic

It is arguable if Christianity sees homosexuality as a sin - Jesus nor God nver said so. It is likely however that view on homosexuality was borrowed from jewish tradition and culture and was written in the old testament (which is mostly irrelevant to christians btw) It happens quite often that one religion borrows a tradition or a cultural rule of another to make a conversion of that cultural group easier

Their ideology is nothing like christian, christianity doesn't support torture or violence, you need to stop judging the whole religion based on actions of few zealots (what am i saying? that's impossible for an atheist) and we don't even know if these people are even christians to begin with

My bolded part shows how intelligent you are. If u haven't noticed, my whole post was sarcastic. There IS more to a person than its sexuality, and christianity DOES say hate THE SIN, NOT THE SINNER. If you are able to connect the dots here, you would figure out that all that translates into Christians SHOULDN'T HATE HOMOSEXUALS because that's not what the christian message is, and no matter how many other "christians" act the other way, that will ALWAYS remain so.

 

Don't bother with trying to start a debate on the matter, because you seem like a lost cause on this matter. Im not gonna change your opinion and you sure as hell ain't gonna change mine so why waste time? I just hope you think a little about what I wrote

1. If Jesus is supposed to be God (trinity), and it the following are God's words or inspired words, Jesus is agaisn't homosexuality.

  • Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1 
  • Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them" 
  • 1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God." 
  • EXODUS 21:20-21 According to God’s law, it was wrong to beat a slave to the point of death. But if the slave survived and got back up within a few days, the beating wasn’t punishable, because the slave was the property of the master. (God endorsed slavery and the beating of slaves.)

 

 2. Ha. 
Exodus 19:13
13 He shall surely be stoned or shot with arrows; not a hand is to be laid on him. Whether man or animal, he shall not be permitted to live.' Only when the ram's horn sounds a long blast may they go up to the mountain.
Deuteronomy 13:10
10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
Deuteronomy 17:5
5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death.
Deuteronomy 22:21
21 she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death.

3. Nice apologetics, still doesn't justify a human owning another human and being ALOWED to beat them in the first place. 

4. GENESIS 6 & 7 Unhappy with the wickedness of man, God killed every living thing on the planet except Noah’s family. Men, women, infants and animals drowned in unimaginable terror and agony.

EXODUS 9:5 God killed all of the Egyptian livestock with a plague.

NUMBERS 16:27-33 The men were rebellious, so God caused the earth to open and swallow up the men, wives and children.

 

NUMBERS 16:35 A fire from God killed 250 men.

NUMBER 16:48 A plague from God killed 14,700

 

I could go on...

5. Well obviously Noahs ark is a myth xD It's still in a book that's said to be "inspired by God". Ofcourse, I don't believe of lot of the shit in there didn't happen, I'm using it to present to people how disgusting a lot of what is in the bible is.

It's not really arguable, plenty of quotes from the bible I could show you (including new testament). 

Their idealogy partly comes christianity, you can't seriously be saying their aren't parts in the bible that have God endorcing violence and being violent. And no, I don't judge the whole religion based off them, I know most christiants are good hearted, kind people. My mum is catholic, it would be pretty hard to live with her if I really thought that. But thanks for lumping atheists all in the same camp, which is what you accused me of doing with christians. 

I know your post was sarcastic, but it was wrong, it's clear that not only the old testament, but the new testament and mainstream christianity sees homosexuality as wrong. You really think the majority of christians accept homosexuality as ok? I think a big minority do, but not a majority.

I held back from trying to insult you as you did me, but screw it, you came across as a fucking arsehole in the post this is replying too. At least give me the same amount of respect I gave you. 



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HappySqurriel said:
sapphi_snake said:
HappySqurriel said:
Maybe I missed it in the pages of religious intolerance within this thread, but where is there any evidence that this act was committed by a Christian or (even if it was committed by a Christian) that their religious beliefs had anything to do with this crime? Was this family following a odd Christian denomination which advocated against temperance and tolerance in favor of wrath and intolerance? Were these parents exposed to constant sermons calling for the mutilation of the genitals of gay children?

Religious beliefs generally always have something to do with such crimes. Also, it's not as if such practices are uncommon amongst christians. Wasn't there one point where boys caught masturbating would be circumcised (or severely psychologically and physiologically traumatized at least)?


Isn't saying "Religious beliefs generally always have something to do with such crimes." a lot like saying "Left wing political beliefs generally always have something to do with rioting", being that left wing protests devolve into riots far more often than conservative protests? Would it be fair to arbitrarily claim a riot was the fault of socialism with no evidence that the protestors were socialists? Are the beliefs to blame even though the vast majority of people who maintain those beliefs find the actions undertaken by a handful of individuals to be abhorrent?

On top of that, I have never heard of a time or place where boys have been circumcised for masturbating and I'm fairly certain that the person who told you that was lying. Circumcision is a procedure that is predominantly performed when a child is an infant for cultural and hygienic reasons. On top of that, in Christianity (in particular Catholicism) masturbation would be considered a sin it would have been committed by an individual who had already had their first communion and they would be expected to confess their sin to a priest who would handle out an appropriate punishment; most likely a series of prayers that they were expected to recite.

 

 

Personally, I would advise you to take several religious studies courses and look for information about religion away from ignorant anti-religion zealots.

Regarding your first paragraph, the thing is that protests and riots are generally public things, and you know very well what the beliefs of the group are (as they make it balantly clear).

Regarding your second paragraph:

Moscucci, Ornella. Clitordectomy, Circumcision, and the Politics of Sexual Pleasure in Mid-Victorian Britain. Sexualities in Victorian Britain. Indiana University Press, Bloomington and Indianapolis, 1996.

And a link (go to the sections about masturbation prevention): http://www.circlist.com/considering/masturbate.html

You can also watch the German movie The White Ribbon, directed by Michael Haneke, that shows some ways christians would physically and psychologically abuse children regarding sexuality.

And the ideea that mastubation is sinful is in itself psychological abuse inflicted upon a child/teenager (and I can speak from personal experience regarding this).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
HappySqurriel said:
sapphi_snake said:
HappySqurriel said:
Maybe I missed it in the pages of religious intolerance within this thread, but where is there any evidence that this act was committed by a Christian or (even if it was committed by a Christian) that their religious beliefs had anything to do with this crime? Was this family following a odd Christian denomination which advocated against temperance and tolerance in favor of wrath and intolerance? Were these parents exposed to constant sermons calling for the mutilation of the genitals of gay children?

Religious beliefs generally always have something to do with such crimes. Also, it's not as if such practices are uncommon amongst christians. Wasn't there one point where boys caught masturbating would be circumcised (or severely psychologically and physiologically traumatized at least)?


Isn't saying "Religious beliefs generally always have something to do with such crimes." a lot like saying "Left wing political beliefs generally always have something to do with rioting", being that left wing protests devolve into riots far more often than conservative protests? Would it be fair to arbitrarily claim a riot was the fault of socialism with no evidence that the protestors were socialists? Are the beliefs to blame even though the vast majority of people who maintain those beliefs find the actions undertaken by a handful of individuals to be abhorrent?

On top of that, I have never heard of a time or place where boys have been circumcised for masturbating and I'm fairly certain that the person who told you that was lying. Circumcision is a procedure that is predominantly performed when a child is an infant for cultural and hygienic reasons. On top of that, in Christianity (in particular Catholicism) masturbation would be considered a sin it would have been committed by an individual who had already had their first communion and they would be expected to confess their sin to a priest who would handle out an appropriate punishment; most likely a series of prayers that they were expected to recite.

 

 

Personally, I would advise you to take several religious studies courses and look for information about religion away from ignorant anti-religion zealots.

Regarding your first paragraph, the thing is that protests and riots are generally public things, and you know very well what the beliefs of the group are (as they make it balantly clear).

Regarding your second paragraph:

Moscucci, Ornella. Clitordectomy, Circumcision, and the Politics of Sexual Pleasure in Mid-Victorian Britain. Sexualities in Victorian Britain. Indiana University Press, Bloomington and Indianapolis, 1996.

And a link (go to the sections about masturbation prevention): http://www.circlist.com/considering/masturbate.html

You can also watch the German movie The White Ribbon, directed by Michael Haneke, that shows some ways christians would physically and psychologically abuse children regarding sexuality.

And the ideea that mastubation is sinful is in itself psychological abuse inflicted upon a child/teenager (and I can speak from personal experience regarding this).

Circumcision to prevent masturbation and circumcision as a punishment for masturbation are two very different things, your argument implied that it was a punsihment for masturbation, and (across cultures) the general explaination of reason for circumcision was hygene and reproductive health; and, while you can find "experts" who claim that it was for just about any reason, the hygene explaination makes the most sense.

Beyond that, I don't see how classifying mastubation as sinful is any more abusive than any other corrective belief we inflict upon children; including actions I would expect you to support, like the tolerance police ...

 

With that said, I still haven't seen a single piece of evidence that suggests religion had anything to do with this case in particular; and the argument connecting this act to christianity could be used to connect homosexuality to paedophilia ...



HappySqurriel said:

Circumcision to prevent masturbation and circumcision as a punishment for masturbation are two very different things, your argument implied that it was a punsihment for masturbation, and (across cultures) the general explaination of reason for circumcision was hygene and reproductive health; and, while you can find "experts" who claim that it was for just about any reason, the hygene explaination makes the most sense.

Beyond that, I don't see how classifying mastubation as sinful is any more abusive than any other corrective belief we inflict upon children; including actions I would expect you to support, like the tolerance police ...

 

With that said, I still haven't seen a single piece of evidence that suggests religion had anything to do with this case in particular; and the argument connecting this act to christianity could be used to connect homosexuality to paedophilia ...

I don't get you. I provided material that shows circumcision was used both as prevention and punishment for masturbation (e.g. kid would get caught jacking off, kid would be circumcised so he'd stop). You can deny all you want, but the hygene explanation isn't it, especially in christian Europe and North America.

And if you don't see why saying that masturbation is a sin has a traumatic effect on an individual, then I assume you must be some fundementalist or something, case in which I won't even bother.

And if you wanna connect homosexuality to paedophilia, you'd also have to connect heterosexuality to paedophilia, and you'd get nowehere.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
HappySqurriel said:

Circumcision to prevent masturbation and circumcision as a punishment for masturbation are two very different things, your argument implied that it was a punsihment for masturbation, and (across cultures) the general explaination of reason for circumcision was hygene and reproductive health; and, while you can find "experts" who claim that it was for just about any reason, the hygene explaination makes the most sense.

Beyond that, I don't see how classifying mastubation as sinful is any more abusive than any other corrective belief we inflict upon children; including actions I would expect you to support, like the tolerance police ...

 

With that said, I still haven't seen a single piece of evidence that suggests religion had anything to do with this case in particular; and the argument connecting this act to christianity could be used to connect homosexuality to paedophilia ...

I don't get you. I provided material that shows circumcision was used both as prevention and punishment for masturbation (e.g. kid would get caught jacking off, kid would be circumcised so he'd stop). You can deny all you want, but the hygene explanation isn't it, especially in christian Europe and North America.

And if you don't see why saying that masturbation is a sin has a traumatic effect on an individual, then I assume you must be some fundementalist or something, case in which I won't even bother.

And if you wanna connect homosexuality to paedophilia, you'd also have to connect heterosexuality to paedophilia, and you'd get nowehere.


Your connection between this incident and christianity is "Some people at some point in time may have perverted the Christian beliefs to justify abuse of children because of Christianity, therefore child-abuse related to sexuality is caused by Christianity" which isn't that different from saying "Some men in the past have had homosexual relationships with boys, therefore homosexuality is the cause of child sexual abuse" ...

 

As for me being a "fundamentalist" ... I was raised in a non-religious household and became an atheist when I was a teenager, as an adult it became clear that atheism was an illogical belief system (the devout belief in the non-existence of god) and most atheists hold a deep irrational intolerance of people who hold religious values (Christianity and Judaism in particular, and are conveniently cultural relativists when it comes to Islam) and I came to define myself as being agnostic.



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HappySqurriel said:
sapphi_snake said:
HappySqurriel said:

Circumcision to prevent masturbation and circumcision as a punishment for masturbation are two very different things, your argument implied that it was a punsihment for masturbation, and (across cultures) the general explaination of reason for circumcision was hygene and reproductive health; and, while you can find "experts" who claim that it was for just about any reason, the hygene explaination makes the most sense.

Beyond that, I don't see how classifying mastubation as sinful is any more abusive than any other corrective belief we inflict upon children; including actions I would expect you to support, like the tolerance police ...

 

With that said, I still haven't seen a single piece of evidence that suggests religion had anything to do with this case in particular; and the argument connecting this act to christianity could be used to connect homosexuality to paedophilia ...

I don't get you. I provided material that shows circumcision was used both as prevention and punishment for masturbation (e.g. kid would get caught jacking off, kid would be circumcised so he'd stop). You can deny all you want, but the hygene explanation isn't it, especially in christian Europe and North America.

And if you don't see why saying that masturbation is a sin has a traumatic effect on an individual, then I assume you must be some fundementalist or something, case in which I won't even bother.

And if you wanna connect homosexuality to paedophilia, you'd also have to connect heterosexuality to paedophilia, and you'd get nowehere.


Your connection between this incident and christianity is "Some people at some point in time may have perverted the Christian beliefs to justify abuse of children because of Christianity, therefore child-abuse related to sexuality is caused by Christianity" which isn't that different from saying "Some men in the past have had homosexual relationships with boys, therefore homosexuality is the cause of child sexual abuse" ...

 

As for me being a "fundamentalist" ... I was raised in a non-religious household and became an atheist when I was a teenager, as an adult it became clear that atheism was an illogical belief system (the devout belief in the non-existence of god) and most atheists hold a deep irrational intolerance of people who hold religious values (Christianity and Judaism in particular, and are conveniently cultural relativists when it comes to Islam) and I came to define myself as being agnostic.

I don't get why people think that atheism has to involve a 'devout' belief in the non-existence of a god. Most atheists that I know (including me) think of God in the same way people think of unicorns - not impossible but pretty improbable given the lack of evidence for their existence. I don't know any atheists really who think that it is possible to prove the non-existence of God or that it is completely impossible that a God exists. Also it's quite possible to be both agnostic and atheist =P.



HappySqurriel said:
sapphi_snake said:
HappySqurriel said:

Circumcision to prevent masturbation and circumcision as a punishment for masturbation are two very different things, your argument implied that it was a punsihment for masturbation, and (across cultures) the general explaination of reason for circumcision was hygene and reproductive health; and, while you can find "experts" who claim that it was for just about any reason, the hygene explaination makes the most sense.

Beyond that, I don't see how classifying mastubation as sinful is any more abusive than any other corrective belief we inflict upon children; including actions I would expect you to support, like the tolerance police ...

 

With that said, I still haven't seen a single piece of evidence that suggests religion had anything to do with this case in particular; and the argument connecting this act to christianity could be used to connect homosexuality to paedophilia ...

I don't get you. I provided material that shows circumcision was used both as prevention and punishment for masturbation (e.g. kid would get caught jacking off, kid would be circumcised so he'd stop). You can deny all you want, but the hygene explanation isn't it, especially in christian Europe and North America.

And if you don't see why saying that masturbation is a sin has a traumatic effect on an individual, then I assume you must be some fundementalist or something, case in which I won't even bother.

And if you wanna connect homosexuality to paedophilia, you'd also have to connect heterosexuality to paedophilia, and you'd get nowehere.


Your connection between this incident and christianity is "Some people at some point in time may have perverted the Christian beliefs to justify abuse of children because of Christianity, therefore child-abuse related to sexuality is caused by Christianity" which isn't that different from saying "Some men in the past have had homosexual relationships with boys, therefore homosexuality is the cause of child sexual abuse" ...

 

As for me being a "fundamentalist" ... I was raised in a non-religious household and became an atheist when I was a teenager, as an adult it became clear that atheism was an illogical belief system (the devout belief in the non-existence of god) and most atheists hold a deep irrational intolerance of people who hold religious values (Christianity and Judaism in particular, and are conveniently cultural relativists when it comes to Islam) and I came to define myself as being agnostic.

What exactly do you mean by 'this incident'? Are you refering to the case in the OP, or the masturbation thing? In the OP I was just going by probabilities (it was most likely that the abusive parents are christians due to the country's demographics, and since christianity's negative attitude towards sexuality in general, and homosexuality in particular, is well known, it's not hard to deduce why they acted the way they did).

"Some men in the past have had homosexual relationships with boys, therefore homosexuality is the cause of child sexual abuse"

This is quite stupid a stupid statement, first of all because it neglects the fatc that the majority of child abuse victims are girls. As I said, if you're gonna say 'homosexuality is the cause of child abuse', then you also gotta say 'heterosexuality is the cause of child abuse', which leads to the conclusion that 'sexuality is the cause of child abuse'. Such statements are simply absurd, not to mention simplistic. It's obvious why christianity would lead (and does lead) to such abusive behaviour, however saying that (any) sexuality is the cause of child abuse is like saying that hands are the cause of stealing.

And I think it's ridiculous to say that atheism is illogical. As Rath said, for an atheist the ideea of a deity is no different than the ideea of a unicorn. Believing in something you've never seen, neither it or evidence of it's existence, is much more illogical than not believing in it. I also remember that you said you were part of some sort of church group, and worked as a youth minister (and this is not long ago), so when exactly did you become agnostic?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)