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Forums - General - UK threatens to cut aid over gay rights

Mr Khan said:
sapphi_snake said:
SamuelRSmith said:

I agree with you 100%. My point wasn't about whether or not papers should be able to print whatever, my point was that papers are still free to print it, they just choose not to. The other poster said "Freedom of press only applies when you dont put a picture of muhammad in the paper, does it?" I'm saying that Freedom of Press still applies, I just explained why they choose not to.

Self-censorship happens all the time in the media, the images of Muhammad is just one example that people are more aware about. Another one I can think of is water-boarding in American newspapers.  When certain papers talk about China waterboarding people, they use the word "torture", however, when they talk about the USA being engaged in waterboarding, they use the term "enhanced interrogation". This isn't because the US Government has made some kind of rule, the press are still free to call it torture, if they wish. They just engage in self-censorship, because they know that calling American water-boarding torture will be offensive to many readers (those who may have lost loved ones in terrorist attacks, or at war, etc).

One other example, off the top of my head, is how the Japanese media refuse to have any negative coverage of the sumo sport. Any allegation of corruption or cheating is completely ignored in the Japanese media, because they know that it could be very offensive to Japanese readers, as sumo is seen as "pure" in Japanese culture.

Really? I thought it was due to hypocrisy.

Regarding Japan, an even better example would be their refusal to acknowledge the Manchurian massacre. You'll never see those 2 terms together in the Japanese media.

Generally that whole period of time, but moreso they have an issue with the World War II "Comfort Women" and the Rape of Nanjing

Nanjing Massacre. Sorry, I screwed up the name.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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NKAJ said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
Lyrikalstylez said:
Why must they always shove this Gay Rights crap down our throats?
We get it your gay just live your life away from mines.........ok


This. There are a lot more important issues people should be paying attention to

This is just the typical excuse of people who want no social change. This is and easily fixable issue that in no way impedes the handling of other issues.

There should be no social changes in the west when it comes to the rights of minorities, and by rights, I mean actual rights. Minorities in the west have so much more freedom and privileges over the actual citizens that is getting insane. How about people focusing on the rights of minorities in non-western countries, instead of being so focused on destroying European social structure from inside out? But I think you would like that to happen. How about focusing on how ''white christian americans/europeans'' (aka the evil oppressors of innocent minorities) are treated in foreign countries? Thats not important, because they are not important and are evil intolerant bigots, right sapphi?

They are. What do you think this initiative is?

And I don't think there are any 'white christian americans/europeans' living in any non-western countries.


I wasn't talking about this case specifically, and since this is about gay rights, i would like to know what exactly they mean by ''rights''. Marriage, for one thing, isn't one.

China, Japan, Australia, Thailand and South Africa, just to name single few major ones

1. Marriage is a right.

2. In Africa gay people are regularly lynched on the street, and homosexuality is criminalized.

Also, Europeans make up the majority of Australia's population. They are not a minority there. Europans aren't a minority in any of the other countries you've mentioned except South Africa (and christians aren't persecuted over there, considering that the majority of the population is christian).

The funny thing is that all the countries you mentioned have 1 thing in common regarding Europeans and christians: both these categories tried to oppress the natives and destroy their cultures during the colonial period (and even recent). Christians are responsable for one of China's bloodiest massacred, in which millions were killed. It's because of their action that China today monitors so stricly the behaviour of religious sects. European christians also tried to invade Japan and destory their culture using their colonialist tactics, and if the Japanese hadn't kicked them out there would be no Japan today. And don't get me started on the apartheid that ended less than 2 decades ago in South Africa. I see nothing wrong with the way these groups (whites and christians) are treated in any of the countries you've mentioned.


No, its not. Its a tradition between a man and a woman, and this has been so ever since concept of marriage was created

Rights not to be lynched or persecuted by people i agree with, but this other crap like gay marriage or adoption i couldn't give 2 shits about, cuz they are a ridiculous issue and take a lot of attention from important issues

Ugh, no, people with european heritage are majority, but european people who were born/lived in europe are minority

And i wasn't talking about europeans only, but also americans and westerners in general who are minority in japan and china,australia and SA

Ur last paragraph is your typical anti european and anti christian rant, so i wont dignify it with an answer. We all saw how much you actually know about history on the whole Polish antisemitism thing

I'm curious, are you talking about marriage in a church? If so, which religion are you talking about? Do you think polgany is acceptable? If so why/why not?  Even if "its a tradition between a man and a woman", just because something is a tradition doesn't mean that we should blindly adhere to it. I don't see any reason for civil marriage not to happen, if it's not a religious ceremony then why does it have to adhere to rules of being between a man and woman? 

Im talking about marriage in general. Traditions are called traditions because they have a historical and heritable value to the people that started it and created it. Out of respect and for the sake of traditional value we conserve and protect these traditions from regressors and selfish people who wish to change or destroy these traditions to fit their views

Religious or not, marriage has always been a tradition between a man and a woman



Rath said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
Lyrikalstylez said:
Why must they always shove this Gay Rights crap down our throats?
We get it your gay just live your life away from mines.........ok


This. There are a lot more important issues people should be paying attention to

This is just the typical excuse of people who want no social change. This is and easily fixable issue that in no way impedes the handling of other issues.

There should be no social changes in the west when it comes to the rights of minorities, and by rights, I mean actual rights. Minorities in the west have so much more freedom and privileges over the actual citizens that is getting insane. How about people focusing on the rights of minorities in non-western countries, instead of being so focused on destroying European social structure from inside out? But I think you would like that to happen. How about focusing on how ''white christian americans/europeans'' (aka the evil oppressors of innocent minorities) are treated in foreign countries? Thats not important, because they are not important and are evil intolerant bigots, right sapphi?

This topic is about improving the rights of a minority in a non-western country. In many African countries the laws against sodomy carry the death penalty - if that isn't an oppressed minority I don't know what is.

Also you'll find that white Christian Americans/Europeans are not actively oppressed in too many countries.

 

Also what rights do gays have that the rest of the population does not?

Right to marry their life partner - not everywhere.

Right to adopt a child with their life partner - same as above.

Right to serve in the openly serve in the military - luckily this one just happened =P

Gays still have less rights than everyone else.

I wasn't talking about gays, rather immigrated minorities in the west. Also, marriage is not a right, and adoption would be horribly wrong



sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:

1. Marriage is a right.

2. In Africa gay people are regularly lynched on the street, and homosexuality is criminalized.

Also, Europeans make up the majority of Australia's population. They are not a minority there. Europans aren't a minority in any of the other countries you've mentioned except South Africa (and christians aren't persecuted over there, considering that the majority of the population is christian).

The funny thing is that all the countries you mentioned have 1 thing in common regarding Europeans and christians: both these categories tried to oppress the natives and destroy their cultures during the colonial period (and even recent). Christians are responsable for one of China's bloodiest massacred, in which millions were killed. It's because of their action that China today monitors so stricly the behaviour of religious sects. European christians also tried to invade Japan and destory their culture using their colonialist tactics, and if the Japanese hadn't kicked them out there would be no Japan today. And don't get me started on the apartheid that ended less than 2 decades ago in South Africa. I see nothing wrong with the way these groups (whites and christians) are treated in any of the countries you've mentioned.


No, its not. Its a tradition between a man and a woman, and this has been so ever since concept of marriage was created

Rights not to be lynched or persecuted by people i agree with, but this other crap like gay marriage or adoption i couldn't give 2 shits about, cuz they are a ridiculous issue and take a lot of attention from important issues

Ugh, no, people with european heritage are majority, but european people who were born/lived in europe are minority

And i wasn't talking about europeans only, but also americans and westerners in general who are minority in japan and china,australia and SA

Ur last paragraph is your typical anti european and anti christian rant, so i wont dignify it with an answer. We all saw how much you actually know about history on the whole Polish antisemitism thing

Marriage is a right, not a tradition. It's a legal contract between 2 individuals. And you should know that from a historical POV marriage isn't a tradition between a man and a woman. Historically, polygamy is the most common form of marriage.

And are you actually suggesting that Europeans are persecuted in Australia?! ... Are you by chance confusing Australia with some other country?

As for your last paragraph, do you know what a logical fallacy is? 'Cause you just commited one. Either infirm what I said, using your vast (inexistent) knowledge of history, or put a cork in it.


Ha, you may want to try and spin it however you want, marriage has always between males and females, THERE WAS NEVER A MAN AND A MAN or WOMEN AND A WOMAN . Hows that for a historical POV? ''Between 2 individuals'' means anyone can marry. A pig and an elephant, spider and a gorilla, cat and a parrot. Why not? if ur gonna ruin the tradition, might as well let anyone do anything.Nah, im sorry, but marriage is a tradition when male and female create a bond, not just any 2 individuals. Every tradition has its specific participants and rules. And by definition of tradition, marriage is one. the one with specific participants and specific rules.

Nah, i was just sayin what countries have european / american minorities. The countries in which christians and whites are persecuted would be middle north african countries such as Sudan, or some cases, even Egypt, Somalia and the others.

What's the point? Your hatred towards anything white, christian or european is so deeply rooted, anyone try to teach you something else thn that would be pointless



Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:

Marriage is a right, not a tradition. It's a legal contract between 2 individuals. And you should know that from a historical POV marriage isn't a tradition between a man and a woman. Historically, polygamy is the most common form of marriage.

And are you actually suggesting that Europeans are persecuted in Australia?! ... Are you by chance confusing Australia with some other country?

As for your last paragraph, do you know what a logical fallacy is? 'Cause you just commited one. Either infirm what I said, using your vast (inexistent) knowledge of history, or put a cork in it.


Ha, you may want to try and spin it however you want, marriage has always between males and females, THERE WAS NEVER A MAN AND A MAN or WOMEN AND A WOMAN . Hows that for a historical POV? ''Between 2 individuals'' means anyone can marry. A pig and an elephant, spider and a gorilla, cat and a parrot. Why not? if ur gonna ruin the tradition, might as well let anyone do anything.Nah, im sorry, but marriage is a tradition when male and female create a bond, not just any 2 individuals. Every tradition has its specific participants and rules. And by definition of tradition, marriage is one. the one with specific participants and specific rules.

Nah, i was just sayin what countries have european / american minorities. The countries in which christians and whites are persecuted would be middle north african countries such as Sudan, or some cases, even Egypt, Somalia and the others.

What's the point? Your hatred towards anything white, christian or european is so deeply rooted, anyone try to teach you something else thn that would be pointless

No, marriage has not always been between males and females. Cases of same sex marriage have been observed historically in certain parts of the world. And the 'tradition' argument is simply nonsensical. Up 'till a century ago, voting was something by tradition that only men could do. Are you trying to say that women shouldn't have recieved the right to vote, because tradition dictated that only men could do that? (and FTR, the crowd against women voting actually did use that argument, and they obviously failed) Ultimately marriage is a legal contract, and things like 'tradition' are irrelevant regarding it.

The whole 'anyone can marry' argument is also nonsensical. 'Between 2 individuals' doesn't imply that a pig can marry an elephant, because legally/philosophically/etc. a pig and an elephant aren't considered to be individuals. Only human beings are considered to be individuals/persons, and this is due to our mental capabilities. This is why a human being can do things like own a house, apply for a loan at a bank, rent a car or get married, while a pig cannot. If a pig were an individual, then pig farmers would be slave owners, and eating pork would be considered not much different than cannibalism. If a pigs and elephants were individuals (i.e. have the mental capabilities of a human being, and all that comes with that), then I'd have no problem with them marrying. But they're not.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:

Marriage is a right, not a tradition. It's a legal contract between 2 individuals. And you should know that from a historical POV marriage isn't a tradition between a man and a woman. Historically, polygamy is the most common form of marriage.

And are you actually suggesting that Europeans are persecuted in Australia?! ... Are you by chance confusing Australia with some other country?

As for your last paragraph, do you know what a logical fallacy is? 'Cause you just commited one. Either infirm what I said, using your vast (inexistent) knowledge of history, or put a cork in it.


Ha, you may want to try and spin it however you want, marriage has always between males and females, THERE WAS NEVER A MAN AND A MAN or WOMEN AND A WOMAN . Hows that for a historical POV? ''Between 2 individuals'' means anyone can marry. A pig and an elephant, spider and a gorilla, cat and a parrot. Why not? if ur gonna ruin the tradition, might as well let anyone do anything.Nah, im sorry, but marriage is a tradition when male and female create a bond, not just any 2 individuals. Every tradition has its specific participants and rules. And by definition of tradition, marriage is one. the one with specific participants and specific rules.

Nah, i was just sayin what countries have european / american minorities. The countries in which christians and whites are persecuted would be middle north african countries such as Sudan, or some cases, even Egypt, Somalia and the others.

What's the point? Your hatred towards anything white, christian or european is so deeply rooted, anyone try to teach you something else thn that would be pointless

No, marriage has not always been between males and females. Cases of same sex marriage have been observed historically in certain parts of the world.There weren't actually.The ones that were, werent actual marriages, as they didn't have a real concept of marriage, and it wasn't anything like marriage we see today.And the 'tradition' argument is simply nonsensical. Up 'till a century ago, voting was something by tradition that only men could do. Are you trying to say that women shouldn't have recieved the right to vote, because tradition dictated that only men could do that?No, because voting isn't a ceremonial tradition like marriage is, no where in democracy (which is where voting comes from) says that only one group of people should vote. Also, there were bad traditions that kept society back, and there are tons of good ones that help preserve national, cultural and historic identity, cherrypicking traditions isnt gonna get you anywhere   (and FTR, the crowd against women voting actually did use that argument, and they obviously failed) Ultimately marriage is a legal contract, and things like 'tradition' are irrelevant regarding it.Legal contract between 2 different genders, if the term contract will make u happy.

The whole 'anyone can marry' argument is also nonsensical. 'Between 2 individuals' doesn't imply that a pig can marry an elephant, because legally/philosophically/etc. a pig and an elephant aren't considered to be individuals.Legally? If you want stuff to stay ''legally'' gay marriage wouldn't be even brought up to any court in the world. Philosophically? Well, now, that's ironic, isn't it. Taking about putting your own foot in your mouth. Only human beings are considered to be individuals/persons, and this is due to our mental capabilitiesOh, but animals are capable of love too! Your a bigot and a zoophobe and thus my opinion is superior (I tried using far left tactic by judging extremely quick and calling you names if you disagree with me) . This is why a human being can do things like own a house, apply for a loan at a bank, rent a car or get married, while a pig cannot. If a pig were an individual, then pig farmers would be slave owners, and eating pork would be considered not much different than cannibalism. If a pigs and elephants were individuals (i.e. have the mental capabilities of a human being, and all that comes with that), then I'd have no problem with them marrying. But they're not.Being individual has nothing to do with how intelligent you are, do you even know a definition for a word ''individual''?





@Player1x3:

There weren't actually.The ones that were, werent actual marriages, as they didn't have a real concept of marriage, and it wasn't anything like marriage we see today.

No, they were real marriages.

No, because voting isn't a ceremonial tradition like marriage is, no where in democracy (which is where voting comes from) says that only one group of people should vote.

Maybe you should brush up on your history. Democracies have always had certain groups that could vote, and certain groups that couldn't. Even inclusive democracies today have groups that cannot vote.

Legal contract between 2 different genders, if the term contract will make u happy.

You are aware that at one point women couldn't sign any form of contract no? Contracts were be definition male. You can't

Legally? If you want stuff to stay ''legally'' gay marriage wouldn't be even brought up to any court in the world.

Why shouldn't it? Unjust laws are generally challenged. The beauty of an open society.

Philosophically? Well, now, that's ironic, isn't it. Taking about putting your own foot in your mouth.

Oh, but animals are capable of love too! Your a bigot and a zoophobe and thus my opinion is superior (I tried using far left tactic by judging extremely quick and calling you names if you disagree with me) .

Being individual has nothing to do with how intelligent you are, do you even know a definition for a word ''individual''?

These just illustrate your ignorance. Yes, I know very well what an individual is. You however do not. Animals are not individuals, either from a legal, philosohpical, or even theological POV. So you pretty much have 0 support.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:

1. Marriage is a right.

2. In Africa gay people are regularly lynched on the street, and homosexuality is criminalized.

Also, Europeans make up the majority of Australia's population. They are not a minority there. Europans aren't a minority in any of the other countries you've mentioned except South Africa (and christians aren't persecuted over there, considering that the majority of the population is christian).

The funny thing is that all the countries you mentioned have 1 thing in common regarding Europeans and christians: both these categories tried to oppress the natives and destroy their cultures during the colonial period (and even recent). Christians are responsable for one of China's bloodiest massacred, in which millions were killed. It's because of their action that China today monitors so stricly the behaviour of religious sects. European christians also tried to invade Japan and destory their culture using their colonialist tactics, and if the Japanese hadn't kicked them out there would be no Japan today. And don't get me started on the apartheid that ended less than 2 decades ago in South Africa. I see nothing wrong with the way these groups (whites and christians) are treated in any of the countries you've mentioned.


No, its not. Its a tradition between a man and a woman, and this has been so ever since concept of marriage was created

Rights not to be lynched or persecuted by people i agree with, but this other crap like gay marriage or adoption i couldn't give 2 shits about, cuz they are a ridiculous issue and take a lot of attention from important issues

Ugh, no, people with european heritage are majority, but european people who were born/lived in europe are minority

And i wasn't talking about europeans only, but also americans and westerners in general who are minority in japan and china,australia and SA

Ur last paragraph is your typical anti european and anti christian rant, so i wont dignify it with an answer. We all saw how much you actually know about history on the whole Polish antisemitism thing

Marriage is a right, not a tradition. It's a legal contract between 2 individuals. And you should know that from a historical POV marriage isn't a tradition between a man and a woman. Historically, polygamy is the most common form of marriage.

And are you actually suggesting that Europeans are persecuted in Australia?! ... Are you by chance confusing Australia with some other country?

As for your last paragraph, do you know what a logical fallacy is? 'Cause you just commited one. Either infirm what I said, using your vast (inexistent) knowledge of history, or put a cork in it.


why just 2 people, why not 3, 4, 5 or howevermany. can it be any individuals, like your mom, sister, or brother.

your definition seems very closed minded and bigoted. discrimination is wrong.



osamanobama said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:

1. Marriage is a right.

2. In Africa gay people are regularly lynched on the street, and homosexuality is criminalized.

Also, Europeans make up the majority of Australia's population. They are not a minority there. Europans aren't a minority in any of the other countries you've mentioned except South Africa (and christians aren't persecuted over there, considering that the majority of the population is christian).

The funny thing is that all the countries you mentioned have 1 thing in common regarding Europeans and christians: both these categories tried to oppress the natives and destroy their cultures during the colonial period (and even recent). Christians are responsable for one of China's bloodiest massacred, in which millions were killed. It's because of their action that China today monitors so stricly the behaviour of religious sects. European christians also tried to invade Japan and destory their culture using their colonialist tactics, and if the Japanese hadn't kicked them out there would be no Japan today. And don't get me started on the apartheid that ended less than 2 decades ago in South Africa. I see nothing wrong with the way these groups (whites and christians) are treated in any of the countries you've mentioned.


No, its not. Its a tradition between a man and a woman, and this has been so ever since concept of marriage was created

Rights not to be lynched or persecuted by people i agree with, but this other crap like gay marriage or adoption i couldn't give 2 shits about, cuz they are a ridiculous issue and take a lot of attention from important issues

Ugh, no, people with european heritage are majority, but european people who were born/lived in europe are minority

And i wasn't talking about europeans only, but also americans and westerners in general who are minority in japan and china,australia and SA

Ur last paragraph is your typical anti european and anti christian rant, so i wont dignify it with an answer. We all saw how much you actually know about history on the whole Polish antisemitism thing

Marriage is a right, not a tradition. It's a legal contract between 2 individuals. And you should know that from a historical POV marriage isn't a tradition between a man and a woman. Historically, polygamy is the most common form of marriage.

And are you actually suggesting that Europeans are persecuted in Australia?! ... Are you by chance confusing Australia with some other country?

As for your last paragraph, do you know what a logical fallacy is? 'Cause you just commited one. Either infirm what I said, using your vast (inexistent) knowledge of history, or put a cork in it.


why just 2 people, why not 3, 4, 5 or howevermany. can it be any individuals, like your mom, sister, or brother.

your definition seems very closed minded and bigoted. discrimination is wrong.

Funny. I would've said the about your fearmongering.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
osamanobama said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:

1. Marriage is a right.

2. In Africa gay people are regularly lynched on the street, and homosexuality is criminalized.

Also, Europeans make up the majority of Australia's population. They are not a minority there. Europans aren't a minority in any of the other countries you've mentioned except South Africa (and christians aren't persecuted over there, considering that the majority of the population is christian).

The funny thing is that all the countries you mentioned have 1 thing in common regarding Europeans and christians: both these categories tried to oppress the natives and destroy their cultures during the colonial period (and even recent). Christians are responsable for one of China's bloodiest massacred, in which millions were killed. It's because of their action that China today monitors so stricly the behaviour of religious sects. European christians also tried to invade Japan and destory their culture using their colonialist tactics, and if the Japanese hadn't kicked them out there would be no Japan today. And don't get me started on the apartheid that ended less than 2 decades ago in South Africa. I see nothing wrong with the way these groups (whites and christians) are treated in any of the countries you've mentioned.


No, its not. Its a tradition between a man and a woman, and this has been so ever since concept of marriage was created

Rights not to be lynched or persecuted by people i agree with, but this other crap like gay marriage or adoption i couldn't give 2 shits about, cuz they are a ridiculous issue and take a lot of attention from important issues

Ugh, no, people with european heritage are majority, but european people who were born/lived in europe are minority

And i wasn't talking about europeans only, but also americans and westerners in general who are minority in japan and china,australia and SA

Ur last paragraph is your typical anti european and anti christian rant, so i wont dignify it with an answer. We all saw how much you actually know about history on the whole Polish antisemitism thing

Marriage is a right, not a tradition. It's a legal contract between 2 individuals. And you should know that from a historical POV marriage isn't a tradition between a man and a woman. Historically, polygamy is the most common form of marriage.

And are you actually suggesting that Europeans are persecuted in Australia?! ... Are you by chance confusing Australia with some other country?

As for your last paragraph, do you know what a logical fallacy is? 'Cause you just commited one. Either infirm what I said, using your vast (inexistent) knowledge of history, or put a cork in it.


why just 2 people, why not 3, 4, 5 or howevermany. can it be any individuals, like your mom, sister, or brother.

your definition seems very closed minded and bigoted. discrimination is wrong.

Funny. I would've said the about your fearmongering.

i find your profiling, therefore your discrimination, therefore your bigotry very offensive.

try being more accepting.