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Forums - General - UK threatens to cut aid over gay rights

If aid goes first to the leaders of a country and then a little bit of it gets down to those who are actually suffering under a country's oppressive social and political systems, then I say add all the string you want to that aid. But if that aid goes directly to helping social and economic development projects (e.g. Oxfam projects) then the UK is simply hurting the poverty stricken while the rich elite who run these developing countries (and make the laws) remain untouched by withheld aid, and indeed they can even strenghten their position by telling their people the UK is abandoning them.

Aid is such a dirty often corrupting business which too frequently hurts those it's meant to help.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

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Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
Lyrikalstylez said:
Why must they always shove this Gay Rights crap down our throats?
We get it your gay just live your life away from mines.........ok


This. There are a lot more important issues people should be paying attention to

This is just the typical excuse of people who want no social change. This is and easily fixable issue that in no way impedes the handling of other issues.

There should be no social changes in the west when it comes to the rights of minorities, and by rights, I mean actual rights. Minorities in the west have so much more freedom and privileges over the actual citizens that is getting insane. How about people focusing on the rights of minorities in non-western countries, instead of being so focused on destroying European social structure from inside out? But I think you would like that to happen. How about focusing on how ''white christian americans/europeans'' (aka the evil oppressors of innocent minorities) are treated in foreign countries? Thats not important, because they are not important and are evil intolerant bigots, right sapphi?

They are. What do you think this initiative is?

And I don't think there are any 'white christian americans/europeans' living in any non-western countries.


I wasn't talking about this case specifically, and since this is about gay rights, i would like to know what exactly they mean by ''rights''. Marriage, for one thing, isn't one.

China, Japan, Australia, Thailand and South Africa, just to name single few major ones

1. Marriage is a right.

2. In Africa gay people are regularly lynched on the street, and homosexuality is criminalized.

Also, Europeans make up the majority of Australia's population. They are not a minority there. Europans aren't a minority in any of the other countries you've mentioned except South Africa (and christians aren't persecuted over there, considering that the majority of the population is christian).

The funny thing is that all the countries you mentioned have 1 thing in common regarding Europeans and christians: both these categories tried to oppress the natives and destroy their cultures during the colonial period (and even recent). Christians are responsable for one of China's bloodiest massacred, in which millions were killed. It's because of their action that China today monitors so stricly the behaviour of religious sects. European christians also tried to invade Japan and destory their culture using their colonialist tactics, and if the Japanese hadn't kicked them out there would be no Japan today. And don't get me started on the apartheid that ended less than 2 decades ago in South Africa. I see nothing wrong with the way these groups (whites and christians) are treated in any of the countries you've mentioned.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
Lyrikalstylez said:
Why must they always shove this Gay Rights crap down our throats?
We get it your gay just live your life away from mines.........ok


This. There are a lot more important issues people should be paying attention to

This is just the typical excuse of people who want no social change. This is and easily fixable issue that in no way impedes the handling of other issues.

There should be no social changes in the west when it comes to the rights of minorities, and by rights, I mean actual rights. Minorities in the west have so much more freedom and privileges over the actual citizens that is getting insane. How about people focusing on the rights of minorities in non-western countries, instead of being so focused on destroying European social structure from inside out? But I think you would like that to happen. How about focusing on how ''white christian americans/europeans'' (aka the evil oppressors of innocent minorities) are treated in foreign countries? Thats not important, because they are not important and are evil intolerant bigots, right sapphi?

They are. What do you think this initiative is?

And I don't think there are any 'white christian americans/europeans' living in any non-western countries.


I wasn't talking about this case specifically, and since this is about gay rights, i would like to know what exactly they mean by ''rights''. Marriage, for one thing, isn't one.

China, Japan, Australia, Thailand and South Africa, just to name single few major ones

1. Marriage is a right.

2. In Africa gay people are regularly lynched on the street, and homosexuality is criminalized.

Also, Europeans make up the majority of Australia's population. They are not a minority there. Europans aren't a minority in any of the other countries you've mentioned except South Africa (and christians aren't persecuted over there, considering that the majority of the population is christian).

The funny thing is that all the countries you mentioned have 1 thing in common regarding Europeans and christians: both these categories tried to oppress the natives and destroy their cultures during the colonial period (and even recent). Christians are responsable for one of China's bloodiest massacred, in which millions were killed. It's because of their action that China today monitors so stricly the behaviour of religious sects. European christians also tried to invade Japan and destory their culture using their colonialist tactics, and if the Japanese hadn't kicked them out there would be no Japan today. And don't get me started on the apartheid that ended less than 2 decades ago in South Africa. I see nothing wrong with the way these groups (whites and christians) are treated in any of the countries you've mentioned.


No, its not. Its a tradition between a man and a woman, and this has been so ever since concept of marriage was created

Rights not to be lynched or persecuted by people i agree with, but this other crap like gay marriage or adoption i couldn't give 2 shits about, cuz they are a ridiculous issue and take a lot of attention from important issues

Ugh, no, people with european heritage are majority, but european people who were born/lived in europe are minority

And i wasn't talking about europeans only, but also americans and westerners in general who are minority in japan and china,australia and SA

Ur last paragraph is your typical anti european and anti christian rant, so i wont dignify it with an answer. We all saw how much you actually know about history on the whole Polish antisemitism thing



SamuelRSmith said:
NKAJ said:


I agree with all of it apart from the last part. People are offended by everything, if they don't like it they don't have to read it. It pisses me off when people find something offensive so they go and use violence to prove their point. If anything, all they are doing is strengthening the case for those who hate islam and say that it is a religion of violence. Even better is when these protesters are trying to argue that islam is a religion of peace and then go ballistic over a cartoon, creating violence ...

I know that sometimes it's pointless to publish something which you know will probably be offensive, but unfortunately there will always be some who choose to do so. All the massive hysteria over the Danish cartoons achieved was more negative attitudes towards muslims, even though it was just a militant minority who caused the trouble.

I agree with you 100%. My point wasn't about whether or not papers should be able to print whatever, my point was that papers are still free to print it, they just choose not to. The other poster said "Freedom of press only applies when you dont put a picture of muhammad in the paper, does it?" I'm saying that Freedom of Press still applies, I just explained why they choose not to.

Self-censorship happens all the time in the media, the images of Muhammad is just one example that people are more aware about. Another one I can think of is water-boarding in American newspapers.  When certain papers talk about China waterboarding people, they use the word "torture", however, when they talk about the USA being engaged in waterboarding, they use the term "enhanced interrogation". This isn't because the US Government has made some kind of rule, the press are still free to call it torture, if they wish. They just engage in self-censorship, because they know that calling American water-boarding torture will be offensive to many readers (those who may have lost loved ones in terrorist attacks, or at war, etc).

One other example, off the top of my head, is how the Japanese media refuse to have any negative coverage of the sumo sport. Any allegation of corruption or cheating is completely ignored in the Japanese media, because they know that it could be very offensive to Japanese readers, as sumo is seen as "pure" in Japanese culture.

ah yeah I didn't read through your earlier reply properly,my bad. good examples there though,especially the sumo one!



"They will know heghan belongs to the helghast"

"England expects that everyman will do his duty"

"we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

 

Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
Lyrikalstylez said:
Why must they always shove this Gay Rights crap down our throats?
We get it your gay just live your life away from mines.........ok


This. There are a lot more important issues people should be paying attention to

This is just the typical excuse of people who want no social change. This is and easily fixable issue that in no way impedes the handling of other issues.

There should be no social changes in the west when it comes to the rights of minorities, and by rights, I mean actual rights. Minorities in the west have so much more freedom and privileges over the actual citizens that is getting insane. How about people focusing on the rights of minorities in non-western countries, instead of being so focused on destroying European social structure from inside out? But I think you would like that to happen. How about focusing on how ''white christian americans/europeans'' (aka the evil oppressors of innocent minorities) are treated in foreign countries? Thats not important, because they are not important and are evil intolerant bigots, right sapphi?

They are. What do you think this initiative is?

And I don't think there are any 'white christian americans/europeans' living in any non-western countries.


I wasn't talking about this case specifically, and since this is about gay rights, i would like to know what exactly they mean by ''rights''. Marriage, for one thing, isn't one.

China, Japan, Australia, Thailand and South Africa, just to name single few major ones

1. Marriage is a right.

2. In Africa gay people are regularly lynched on the street, and homosexuality is criminalized.

Also, Europeans make up the majority of Australia's population. They are not a minority there. Europans aren't a minority in any of the other countries you've mentioned except South Africa (and christians aren't persecuted over there, considering that the majority of the population is christian).

The funny thing is that all the countries you mentioned have 1 thing in common regarding Europeans and christians: both these categories tried to oppress the natives and destroy their cultures during the colonial period (and even recent). Christians are responsable for one of China's bloodiest massacred, in which millions were killed. It's because of their action that China today monitors so stricly the behaviour of religious sects. European christians also tried to invade Japan and destory their culture using their colonialist tactics, and if the Japanese hadn't kicked them out there would be no Japan today. And don't get me started on the apartheid that ended less than 2 decades ago in South Africa. I see nothing wrong with the way these groups (whites and christians) are treated in any of the countries you've mentioned.


No, its not. Its a tradition between a man and a woman, and this has been so ever since concept of marriage was created

Rights not to be lynched or persecuted by people i agree with, but this other crap like gay marriage or adoption i couldn't give 2 shits about, cuz they are a ridiculous issue and take a lot of attention from important issues

Ugh, no, people with european heritage are majority, but european people who were born/lived in europe are minority

And i wasn't talking about europeans only, but also americans and westerners in general who are minority in japan and china,australia and SA

Ur last paragraph is your typical anti european and anti christian rant, so i wont dignify it with an answer. We all saw how much you actually know about history on the whole Polish antisemitism thing

I'm curious, are you talking about marriage in a church? If so, which religion are you talking about? Do you think polgany is acceptable? If so why/why not?  Even if "its a tradition between a man and a woman", just because something is a tradition doesn't mean that we should blindly adhere to it. I don't see any reason for civil marriage not to happen, if it's not a religious ceremony then why does it have to adhere to rules of being between a man and woman? 



"They will know heghan belongs to the helghast"

"England expects that everyman will do his duty"

"we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

 

Around the Network
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Zlejedi said:
sapphi_snake said:
Spedfrom said:
Zlejedi said:
NKAJ said:
SamuelRSmith said:
ProdigyBam said:
He should care about persecuted christians first since most of the british people are christian and the culture is based on christian-judeo teachings, while at most 5-10% are homosexual, just saying..


His choice of protecting gay rights is clearly a movement to help him win public opinion. Protecting persecuted Christains would not do this, and would probably cause a massive media shit-storm.


Create a shit-storm where? Reading the daily mail it's pretty obvious that if anything, people were annoyed that funding would be based on gay rights rather than persecution of Christians. All I've read or heard for the last few months is people getting fed up because, in their view, minorities such as gays/muslims are given priority over the majority population.

Really ? That's heart warming to read some people still use common sense.

I've always thought of Poland as a very homophobic country. And you aren't helping matters, that's for sure.

They're also known to be very antisemitic.

Which is huge bullshit because there's much less antisemitic incidents here than in so called west.

That's because you have almost no Jews living in your country after the Holocaust.


Im sure thats the fault of poles and not their ''certain'' western neighbour

Yes, it actually is. The Poles certainly didn't disagree with the Nazis' antisemitism. They didn't really like it when they realized that Nazis also didn't care for them much either, but they certainly were on board with whatever the Nazis did to the Jews.

http://www1.yadvashem.org/yv/en/righteous/statistics.asp

Words are cheap , real help costed many people their lives.



PROUD MEMBER OF THE PSP RPG FAN CLUB

Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:

1. Marriage is a right.

2. In Africa gay people are regularly lynched on the street, and homosexuality is criminalized.

Also, Europeans make up the majority of Australia's population. They are not a minority there. Europans aren't a minority in any of the other countries you've mentioned except South Africa (and christians aren't persecuted over there, considering that the majority of the population is christian).

The funny thing is that all the countries you mentioned have 1 thing in common regarding Europeans and christians: both these categories tried to oppress the natives and destroy their cultures during the colonial period (and even recent). Christians are responsable for one of China's bloodiest massacred, in which millions were killed. It's because of their action that China today monitors so stricly the behaviour of religious sects. European christians also tried to invade Japan and destory their culture using their colonialist tactics, and if the Japanese hadn't kicked them out there would be no Japan today. And don't get me started on the apartheid that ended less than 2 decades ago in South Africa. I see nothing wrong with the way these groups (whites and christians) are treated in any of the countries you've mentioned.


No, its not. Its a tradition between a man and a woman, and this has been so ever since concept of marriage was created

Rights not to be lynched or persecuted by people i agree with, but this other crap like gay marriage or adoption i couldn't give 2 shits about, cuz they are a ridiculous issue and take a lot of attention from important issues

Ugh, no, people with european heritage are majority, but european people who were born/lived in europe are minority

And i wasn't talking about europeans only, but also americans and westerners in general who are minority in japan and china,australia and SA

Ur last paragraph is your typical anti european and anti christian rant, so i wont dignify it with an answer. We all saw how much you actually know about history on the whole Polish antisemitism thing

Marriage is a right, not a tradition. It's a legal contract between 2 individuals. And you should know that from a historical POV marriage isn't a tradition between a man and a woman. Historically, polygamy is the most common form of marriage.

And are you actually suggesting that Europeans are persecuted in Australia?! ... Are you by chance confusing Australia with some other country?

As for your last paragraph, do you know what a logical fallacy is? 'Cause you just commited one. Either infirm what I said, using your vast (inexistent) knowledge of history, or put a cork in it.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

NKAJ said:

I'm curious, are you talking about marriage in a church? If so, which religion are you talking about? Do you think polgany is acceptable? If so why/why not?  Even if "its a tradition between a man and a woman", just because something is a tradition doesn't mean that we should blindly adhere to it. I don't see any reason for civil marriage not to happen, if it's not a religious ceremony then why does it have to adhere to rules of being between a man and woman? 

There is no logical reason, but then again, don't you know who the anti same sex marriage crowd consists of?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
SamuelRSmith said:

I agree with you 100%. My point wasn't about whether or not papers should be able to print whatever, my point was that papers are still free to print it, they just choose not to. The other poster said "Freedom of press only applies when you dont put a picture of muhammad in the paper, does it?" I'm saying that Freedom of Press still applies, I just explained why they choose not to.

Self-censorship happens all the time in the media, the images of Muhammad is just one example that people are more aware about. Another one I can think of is water-boarding in American newspapers.  When certain papers talk about China waterboarding people, they use the word "torture", however, when they talk about the USA being engaged in waterboarding, they use the term "enhanced interrogation". This isn't because the US Government has made some kind of rule, the press are still free to call it torture, if they wish. They just engage in self-censorship, because they know that calling American water-boarding torture will be offensive to many readers (those who may have lost loved ones in terrorist attacks, or at war, etc).

One other example, off the top of my head, is how the Japanese media refuse to have any negative coverage of the sumo sport. Any allegation of corruption or cheating is completely ignored in the Japanese media, because they know that it could be very offensive to Japanese readers, as sumo is seen as "pure" in Japanese culture.

Really? I thought it was due to hypocrisy.

Regarding Japan, an even better example would be their refusal to acknowledge the Manchurian massacre. You'll never see those 2 terms together in the Japanese media.

Generally that whole period of time, but moreso they have an issue with the World War II "Comfort Women" and the Rape of Nanjing



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
Lyrikalstylez said:
Why must they always shove this Gay Rights crap down our throats?
We get it your gay just live your life away from mines.........ok


This. There are a lot more important issues people should be paying attention to

This is just the typical excuse of people who want no social change. This is and easily fixable issue that in no way impedes the handling of other issues.

There should be no social changes in the west when it comes to the rights of minorities, and by rights, I mean actual rights. Minorities in the west have so much more freedom and privileges over the actual citizens that is getting insane. How about people focusing on the rights of minorities in non-western countries, instead of being so focused on destroying European social structure from inside out? But I think you would like that to happen. How about focusing on how ''white christian americans/europeans'' (aka the evil oppressors of innocent minorities) are treated in foreign countries? Thats not important, because they are not important and are evil intolerant bigots, right sapphi?

This topic is about improving the rights of a minority in a non-western country. In many African countries the laws against sodomy carry the death penalty - if that isn't an oppressed minority I don't know what is.

Also you'll find that white Christian Americans/Europeans are not actively oppressed in too many countries.

 

Also what rights do gays have that the rest of the population does not?

Right to marry their life partner - not everywhere.

Right to adopt a child with their life partner - same as above.

Right to serve in the openly serve in the military - luckily this one just happened =P

Gays still have less rights than everyone else.