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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - God of War director says Galaxy has ‘vapid story’

DeguelloNWR said:

If a picture can tell a thousand words, one might argue that Mario Galaxy's Gameplay IS its Story, as a moving interactive picture.  For many simple and complex minds, this is sufficient, especially when those visuals are as creative and vivis as Mario Galaxy's.  If Mr. Barlog wish to be lead like a sheep through his entertainment, well, that is reflected in his method of storytelling, no?

And remind me, Famine, to tell your future boyfriend/girlfriend that being kidnapped would not be a sufficient enough reason to attempt to rescue him/her.  I'm sure that would go over like salmon pancakes.


Talk about being philosophical. Too much analysis and emphasis where it isn't warranted. The story is about Mario rescuing Princess Peach, which is something that has been repeated: Same hero, same damsel in distress, same head villain. Again, your post too is about the gameplay, and if that's the case, well then you and Mr. Barlog are in complete concurrence.

Regarding your last point, yeah, because my earlier posts are geared toward real-life situations.

Remind me when you slaughter your family and come back from the brink of hell that revenge isn't really too virtuous.



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DeguelloNWR said:
Lingyis said:
why defend galaxy? yes, of course it's about gameplay, not story. but some people do want more storyline when they play a game, and he happens to be one of those people.

besides, if galaxy does has a good storyline to it, it'll have an average score of like 99 instead of the 97 currently.

lots of people can enjoy galaxy 100% without a story. but there are some who say only enjoys it 90%. that's still really good--we're not all clones, after all.

It's simply a matter of what he is trying to say and who is he trying to convince with it. That's fine that he wants more story in a game, but to make a blog post about it? He is not a reviewer. Moreover, he can be viewed as a direct competitor. His opinion can be highly suspect if so.

There is bad blood between Nintendo and Sony, but this past few years it has been obviously one sided. Sony started to really heap it on Nintendo when they said that only children wanted to play DS, the only game they have is Pokemon, gimmick waggle wand when the wii came out, etc. From Nintendo? Nothing, really. Except those sales numbers they let do the talking for them.

If it is truly his opinion, that's fine, but he had best be prepared to be in the miniscule minority, and have the reasons for his opinion judged. His blog is not a private space. He posts it for the world to see, and as such the world will judge, and most think him to be more than a little jealous and envious.


i don't think he's trying to convince anyone--it's just his opinion!  to me it's insightful why he made GoW the way it is.  and clearly he knows he's in the minority.  if you think what he says is suspect since he's on sony, it's good that you're pointing that out.  after all, you tend not to trash the players on your own team.

i don't get your concept of a blog--things he says there is open to criticism, that's the whole point.  same with interviews.  if people find him jealous and envious and it bothers him, he wouldn't have posted or said it in the first place.

that being said, it is a little funny.  not "PHAIL" funny but well worthy of a chuckle. 



the Wii is an epidemic.

BrainBoxLtd said:
Bodhesatva said:

The inspid and heavy handed story in games like Gears of War and God of War is precisely why I dislike those games so strongly.


Yeah, Gears really doesn't really have a story, and if it does, it's far from heavy handed. One of the reasons I enjoyed it actually. Stories typically have a beginning, middle, and end. Gears has a middle, and not much else. There's a few pointless cut-scenes where stuff I presume the creator's thought looked bad ass happened, and some minor crap about what you're doing, but you can mostly skip all that.


If this is what you believe, then you clearly haven't seen Cliffy B comment on the game. He compares his work to Hamlet. I'm not kidding.

 



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

Famine said:
DeguelloNWR said:

If a picture can tell a thousand words, one might argue that Mario Galaxy's Gameplay IS its Story, as a moving interactive picture. For many simple and complex minds, this is sufficient, especially when those visuals are as creative and vivis as Mario Galaxy's. If Mr. Barlog wish to be lead like a sheep through his entertainment, well, that is reflected in his method of storytelling, no?

And remind me, Famine, to tell your future boyfriend/girlfriend that being kidnapped would not be a sufficient enough reason to attempt to rescue him/her. I'm sure that would go over like salmon pancakes.


Talk about being philosophical. Too much analysis and emphasis where it isn't warranted. The story is about Mario rescuing Princess Peach, which is something that has been repeated: Same hero, same damsel in distress, same head villain. Again, your post too is about the gameplay, and if that's the case, well then you and Mr. Barlog are in complete concurrence.

Regarding your last point, yeah, because my earlier posts are geared toward real-life situations.

Remind me when you slaughter your family and come back from the brink of hell that revenge isn't really too virtuous.


You, like Mr. Barlog are having the same misconception. You are simply looking at the beginning and end without see the MIDDLE.

Super Mario Bros: Bowser Kidnaps Princess Peach and takes her to his castle, through the various worlds of the mushroom kingdom, until he finally reaches Bowser's Castle, does battle, and is victorious.

Super Mario Galaxy: Bowser attacks a star festival, kidnaps Princess Peach by lifting her castle into OUTER SPACE and banishing Mario to a small planet. After restoring a ship's galactic traveling power, he attempts to rescue Princess Peach by going to the Center of the universe and tossing Bowser into the sun. He is victorious.

These are quite different, as anybody can clearly see. Simply because they have the same bread on one end and the other, doesn't mean the sandwich is the same. A grilled cheese sandwich is not a peanut butter sandwich. I am not in agreement with Mr. Barlog, as I see gameplay and story vitally connected. What the player does in the game is its story. The desperate attempts to make that jump, the frustration of repeated defeat at the hands of a boss. All you really need there is an interesting concept, like jumping between planets, and you're good to go.

Does it really bother you than it's the same person being rescued and the same villian fought?  Would the game have been better if it were exactly the same, but those two names are different?  Isn't that kind of shallow? 

And my last point was not towards anything in your real life situations. You asked why was Mario doing what he's doing, and the answer is simple. Bowser kidnapped her, and he is thus motivated to rescue her. If that's not sufficient, maybe he could brood about it for an hour before he starts. I'd hope being kidnapped would be sufficient to receive help, and across the globe it is universally accepted to do so. But Revenge is not so universal, particularly for its basic selfish drive.



Bodhesatva said:
BrainBoxLtd said:
Bodhesatva said:

The inspid and heavy handed story in games like Gears of War and God of War is precisely why I dislike those games so strongly.


Yeah, Gears really doesn't really have a story, and if it does, it's far from heavy handed. One of the reasons I enjoyed it actually. Stories typically have a beginning, middle, and end. Gears has a middle, and not much else. There's a few pointless cut-scenes where stuff I presume the creator's thought looked bad ass happened, and some minor crap about what you're doing, but you can mostly skip all that.


If this is what you believe, then you clearly haven't seen Cliffy B comment on the game. He compares his work to Hamlet. I'm not kidding.

 


You got a link? I'm not doubting he said that, I just want a good laugh. XD 



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No, this guy doesn't have a point. He has an opinion, an opinion that has pretty much been rendered irrelevant since 1986. It's been said time and time again but the joy of Mario is not its story but its gameplay, this is how it's been for 20 years and some guy with a couple of games under his belt can't and won't change this, not with all the bitching in the world. The problem with this is the type of story the story whores want out of Mario would require an entire reinvention of the Mario universe. Now, who actually wants this?

This is a world with cakes floating out in space, where a plumber can touch a mushroom and grow several feet or touch a flower and throw balls of flames from his palms. If someone can come up with with abn "epic" plot taking all of the source material into account and not be utterly absurd then every game writer should just stop right now and worship this person for accomplishing the impossible.

The fact of the matter is that when Mario lands on a toy train rolling through outer space, you shouldn't be concerning yourself about why, but how. Because that's going to determine your next move.

Oh wait…the game sells millions even with the vapid story.


There's a reason Galaxy is the second best rated game of all time, Mr. Balrog.



Tag - "No trolling on my watch!"

Lingyis said:
DeguelloNWR said:
Lingyis said:
why defend galaxy? yes, of course it's about gameplay, not story. but some people do want more storyline when they play a game, and he happens to be one of those people.

besides, if galaxy does has a good storyline to it, it'll have an average score of like 99 instead of the 97 currently.

lots of people can enjoy galaxy 100% without a story. but there are some who say only enjoys it 90%. that's still really good--we're not all clones, after all.

It's simply a matter of what he is trying to say and who is he trying to convince with it. That's fine that he wants more story in a game, but to make a blog post about it? He is not a reviewer. Moreover, he can be viewed as a direct competitor. His opinion can be highly suspect if so.

There is bad blood between Nintendo and Sony, but this past few years it has been obviously one sided. Sony started to really heap it on Nintendo when they said that only children wanted to play DS, the only game they have is Pokemon, gimmick waggle wand when the wii came out, etc. From Nintendo? Nothing, really. Except those sales numbers they let do the talking for them.

If it is truly his opinion, that's fine, but he had best be prepared to be in the miniscule minority, and have the reasons for his opinion judged. His blog is not a private space. He posts it for the world to see, and as such the world will judge, and most think him to be more than a little jealous and envious.


i don't think he's trying to convince anyone--it's just his opinion! to me it's insightful why he made GoW the way it is. and clearly he knows he's in the minority. if you think what he says is suspect since he's on sony, it's good that you're pointing that out. after all, you tend not to trash the players on your own team.

i don't get your concept of a blog--things he says there is open to criticism, that's the whole point. same with interviews. if people find him jealous and envious and it bothers him, he wouldn't have posted or said it in the first place.

that being said, it is a little funny. not "PHAIL" funny but well worthy of a chuckle.


 Am I to expect Mr. Barlog had absolutely no idea what to expect from Mario Galaxy?  Is he not privy to the same game news I am?  Did he not see Bowser and Peach in the game?  Was he expecting much different than previous Mario games?  Remember, not much on the internet is spur of the moment.  It's hard to wing a blog or forum post.

If his thing is story as he sees it, then that's ok, but his lack of understanding why people think "its the second coming" is curious to say the least.  They think so because the game is such an experience, the play so fun, the graphics so wonderous, the soundtrack being the hands-down best of the year, no matter what those other awards say...  That is Mario Galaxy's "story," per se, and it is the same story told to him by those other designers.  Since he doesn't see it in the game itself, it's possible that he does not understand.  I hope no ulterior motive is ascribed to his post such as petty competitor bickering, but at the same time he must be open to the no doubt throngs of emails and comments telling him that his characerization of Mario Galaxy's conceptual story as "vapid" is mischaracterized and possibly an attention-seeking behavior set, which is troubling, but expected should that ulterior motive be true.



The worst (and the only one "not great") part of Super Paper Mario are the DAMN NON-SKIPPABLE CUTSCENES. So, Mario is just great without "a great storyline".



 ..........
^Click on cards to level'em up!!!^ =D

DeguelloNWR said:

You, like Mr. Barlog are having the same misconception. You are simply looking at the beginning and end without see the MIDDLE.

Super Mario Bros: Bowser Kidnaps Princess Peach and takes her to his castle, through the various worlds of the mushroom kingdom, until he finally reaches Bowser's Castle, does battle, and is victorious.

Super Mario Galaxy: Bowser attacks a star festival, kidnaps Princess Peach by lifting her castle into OUTER SPACE and banishing Mario to a small planet. After restoring a ship's galactic traveling power, he attempts to rescue Princess Peach by going to the Center of the universe and tossing Bowser into the sun. He is victorious.

These are quite different, as anybody can clearly see. Simply because they have the same bread on one end and the other, doesn't mean the sandwich is the same. A grilled cheese sandwich is not a peanut butter sandwich. I am not in agreement with Mr. Barlog, as I see gameplay and story vitally connected. What the player does in the game is its story. The desperate attempts to make that jump, the frustration of repeated defeat at the hands of a boss. All you really need there is an interesting concept, like jumping between planets, and you're good to go.

Does it really bother you than it's the same person being rescued and the same villian fought?  Would the game have been better if it were exactly the same, but those two names are different?  Isn't that kind of shallow? 

And my last point was not towards anything in your real life situations. You asked why was Mario doing what he's doing, and the answer is simple. Bowser kidnapped her, and he is thus motivated to rescue her. If that's not sufficient, maybe he could brood about it for an hour before he starts. I'd hope being kidnapped would be sufficient to receive help, and across the globe it is universally accepted to do so. But Revenge is not so universal, particularly for its basic selfish drive.


It's still the same hero, same damsel, same villain, same plot. SMG isn't the first one in the series to try something new by introducing new characters, it isn't the first one to offer new play mechanics, but it is the same as the previous when it comes to having the same hero, same damsel, and having to fight the same villain.

When it comes to the story, yeah, I find it jaded, but that's not what is bringing me back to play Mario, nor does the storytelling aspect alone of any game bring any player back, it's the gameplay.

It might be different sandwhiches, one consisting of spiced ham, the other honey glazed, and the other just plain ham, but the thing is the sandwhiches have a similarity, they all contain ham.

As for the gameplay being connected with story, that befalls almost every game: This happens in this scene, play through this area to get to the new scene, weather it be rolling something into a huge massive ball, ripping something's head off, shooting your way through denizens of the undead, leading your soldiers across a battlefield, etc.

Now if the story is something that made people truly stick with this game... fine; different people find delectation through various things. I on the other hand have witnessed this same story and same characters when my parents first bought me an NES back in the 80s, and it's now 2008. They could have made Wario and Bowser team-up against Mario; right there, that's already something new.



Famine said:
DeguelloNWR said:

You, like Mr. Barlog are having the same misconception. You are simply looking at the beginning and end without see the MIDDLE.

Super Mario Bros: Bowser Kidnaps Princess Peach and takes her to his castle, through the various worlds of the mushroom kingdom, until he finally reaches Bowser's Castle, does battle, and is victorious.

Super Mario Galaxy: Bowser attacks a star festival, kidnaps Princess Peach by lifting her castle into OUTER SPACE and banishing Mario to a small planet. After restoring a ship's galactic traveling power, he attempts to rescue Princess Peach by going to the Center of the universe and tossing Bowser into the sun. He is victorious.

These are quite different, as anybody can clearly see. Simply because they have the same bread on one end and the other, doesn't mean the sandwich is the same. A grilled cheese sandwich is not a peanut butter sandwich. I am not in agreement with Mr. Barlog, as I see gameplay and story vitally connected. What the player does in the game is its story. The desperate attempts to make that jump, the frustration of repeated defeat at the hands of a boss. All you really need there is an interesting concept, like jumping between planets, and you're good to go.

Does it really bother you than it's the same person being rescued and the same villian fought?  Would the game have been better if it were exactly the same, but those two names are different?  Isn't that kind of shallow? 

And my last point was not towards anything in your real life situations. You asked why was Mario doing what he's doing, and the answer is simple. Bowser kidnapped her, and he is thus motivated to rescue her. If that's not sufficient, maybe he could brood about it for an hour before he starts. I'd hope being kidnapped would be sufficient to receive help, and across the globe it is universally accepted to do so. But Revenge is not so universal, particularly for its basic selfish drive.


It's still the same hero, same damsel, same villain, same plot. SMG isn't the first one in the series to try something new by introducing new characters, it isn't the first one to offer new play mechanics, but it is the same as the previous when it comes to having the same hero, same damsel, and having to fight the same villain.

When it comes to the story, yeah, I find it jaded, but that's not what is bringing me back to play Mario, nor does the storytelling aspect alone of any game bring any player back, it's the gameplay.

It might be different sandwhiches, one consisting of spiced ham, the other honey glazed, and the other just plain ham, but the thing is the sandwhiches have a similarity, they all contain ham.

As for the gameplay being connected with story, that befalls almost every game: This happens in this scene, play through this area to get to the new scene, weather it be rolling something into a huge massive ball, ripping something's head off, shooting your way through denizens of the undead, leading your soldiers across a battlefield, etc.

Now if the story is something that made people truly stick with this game... fine; different people find delectation through various things. I on the other hand have witnessed this same story and same characters when my parents first bought me an NES back in the 80s, and it's now 2008. They could have made Wario and Bowser team-up against Mario; right there, that's already something new.


 So if we called him jim, but he did th same thing you'd be ok, because that is essentially what GoW is, its the same old story, with just a new dude, wh does the same thing is nevery game, the gods hate me so I must kill them



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)