I've come to believe that people almost unfailingly support the gun legislation of wherever they live when the topic comes up, and this thread seems to reinforce that belief. For example my country (Finland) has, despite the high amount of firearms, very strict gun laws and I don't see anything wrong with it.

Basically most guns here are either hunting weapons, low-caliber target practice guns, or WW2-era war booty. Gun permits require a reason for the fire arm, self-defence not being a valid reason, and only licensed security guards or the police may carry guns in public. There is some disagreement with the EU over hunting legislation, as Finland has an extremely long history with hunting being popular all layers of society, going back to the medieval days of peasants in Sweden-Finland owning their own land, while most of Europe seems to consider hunting a snobby hobby for the filthy rich, and is keen on restricting it.

All in all, I think this system works very, very well.

Career criminals, nutcases who seriously plan things through, and the like can still get their hands on guns, but at a much greater difficulty and expense than otherwise, and random crimes of passion are much reduced. People will continue to kill with knives etc, but the body count in such cases is almost invariably much lower. I find the prospect of not being able to carry a gun around to defend myself preferable to the thought of increasing the risk of someone attacking me with one.

I believe it's in the end better for a society to have fewer guns around, but tightening regulations in the United States (which most people here seem to be primarily concerned with) probably wouldn't work too well. There are so many guns in circulation already, so many people consider it their fundamental right to own them, and as far as I understand it, the structure of your government means legislation can never be truly unified across country.

I could say more, but I think I'll stop and see if anyone cares first. =P

Murder per capita:

24th USA: 0.042802 PER 1,000 People

46th UK: 0.0104633 PER 1,000 People

This is nations with the highest murder per capita. The only countries that have higher murder per capita's than the USA are Latin America countries, vastly undeveloped countries, and a few Eastern European countries.

Murder with firearms per capita:

8th USA: 0.0279271 Per 1,000 people.

32nd UK: 0.00102579 Per 1,000 people.

This is nations with the highest murder with firearms per capita. Again the only countries to have higher murder with firearms per capita are Latin America countries and vastly underdeveloped countries. To find USA, probably the most developed country in the world to be 8th highest is shocking and totally unacceptable.

These statistics pretty much prove that it is safer to live in a country that bans guns than it is to live in a country that allows them.

*1 - I believe that they deserve the chances they would have of it happening. You're apparently saying as long as they don't kill someone that's okay, despite teh emotional, physical, and financial trauma their victims might receive. The impression I get from you is that you think that the only way to use a gun is to kill someone. Even if I have no intention of shooting, I am still capable of bluffing an otherwise stronger opponent into backing down. I can injure that opponent if he still presses that issue, and if he is threatening one of my family members with potentially lethal intent, I can kill him quickly and definitively to ensure the safety of my loved ones. Lives of myself, my family, my friends, my loved ones and other law abiding citizens > lives of criminals.

*2 -Can anyone dig up statistics of death an injuries caused by motor vehicles vs death and injury by guns? I'd like to see what those actually turn out to be.

*3 - that's what you believe, have you confirmed this? After all, Europe has banned guns, something that is a basic right in America, another basic right of america is freedom of speech and press. If Europe doesn't want people owning guns, would they be as willing to let it get out that there was enough criminal activity to warrant citizens going out and buying guns? Now, I'm not going to press this point, cause then we'll have conspiracy theories flying out the wazzoo, but it is something to consider.

 *4 - American history probably isn't your area of expertese, but there was a point where Alcohol was actually Constitutionally BANNED in America. It was the 18th Amendment to the constitution, and enacted with the idea that it would reduce crime, poverty and violence, which alcohol has been notably connected to just as much if not moreso than violent crime has been connected to guns. No one listened to it, accepted it, or made it possible to enforce, and the consumption of alcohol actually became worse. This was later repealed by the 21st amendment to the US constitution.

Even if the US government does try to ban guns, they won't succeed. It doesn't matter if it's 25 years from now or 200. 

Yeah he's from Croatia. Hence Croatia has a higher murder per captia number. Yet he thinks America isnt' safe in comparison.

Also it doens't prove anything because there are many confounding variables, which if you knew anything in statistics you'd know.  If you however compare likewise cities in the US those with stricter gunlaws actually have a higher murder rate.

actually, you bring up a good point. People go through and say "Oh, guns are legal in america, and look at how high their murder rate is!!!" Except there are quite a few places anymore in america that have such restricting gun laws that it IS nearly the same as having them banned. Those are usually the places with the highest murder rate, and the areas that are boosting up the murder rate for the entire country.

that would be like me saying "oh, there are so many people in the Eurasian land mass who are Chinese. So if you want to go to Germany, you're going to need to learn Mandarin"

 Croatia has a lower murder per capita than the USA. At least that is what the tables I'm looking at now tell me.

Obviously it is not 100% proof. But USA and UK are very similar countries. Both are up there with the most developed countries in the world. Yet USA's murder per capita is FOUR times greater, and its murder with firearms per capita is TWENTY-SEVEN times greater. Also more than 50% of murders in the USA are with firearms. I don't believe for one second that all of those 50% of murders would have happened if firearms were made illegal.

2. Number of Deaths in the US by cars in 2005 (43,443).

Number homicides by guns 10,100.  You can add suicides if you want but it doesn't seem relevant, as I doubt many suicidal people are going to go "Well I don't have a gun so I won't kill myself."

For what it's worth, about 36.5% of Americans reported having a gun in 2004.

There is a difference between how often crimes are prevented a year if you use a gun in self defense depending on your definition of self defense.

It's either 64,615 a year or 2.45 million.

The first study only considers it an attack prevented if you fire the gun in self defense and if you have already been attacked by the person.

So if a guy with a knife comes at you, you pull a gun and he runs away... it's not counted.

Also it should be noted that a majority of these prevented crimes are crimes committed by strangers.

Which is important to note since most crimes are committed by people you know. So whether they find away around it, or more likely they decide it's not a good idea to commit a crime against the person they know who has a gun... i'll leave that up to you.

Also two of the deadliest cities in the US New York and Washington DC have the strictest gun control laws.

If you carry a gun around with you for protection, do you also wear a bullet proof vest for protection? If the answer is no I would like to know why.

I find it disturbing that guns, weapons that have no other purpose than to kill/injure people are allowed to be carried around by the average guy on the street. It just seems totally mental. It is my belief that absolutely nobody should be allowed to have a gun.

going to bed won't be able to respond for a while.

@Tombi
That proves absolutly nothing. There are countries out there, with more Guns per capita then in the US, with some of the lowest crime rates in the world. And what charts are you looking at? Hopefully its not Wikipedia. If you go and get Interpol data, latest Interpol data shows that Croatia has a higher murder rate per capita then the US. Not to mention the murder rate in the US has been on a steady decrease for the past couple of decades.

Simply saying that banning guns reduces murder is absolutely ludicrous.

F*ck it, this topic is getting old, how about this, if you want to live in a place where guns are outlawed because you believe it increases the murder rate, then thats fine, get the fuck over that in the US we are allowed to own guns and stay the hell away from our country, simple as that. I dont see how in anyway it should effect you.