Jay520 said: Seece said: Jay520 said: Seece said: Jay520 said: M.U.G.E.N said: I think a few people are mixing up concept of bigger/smaller markets with strongest/weakest markets in this thread..ethomaz is right Well put, my friend. He isn't though, he's saying UK is the PS3's weakest region in Europe, which is just 100% wrong. Just because it's 3rd place, it doesn't really mean anything, least of all being weak. You don't judge these things on chart placings. The word 'weak' is context-based. In terms of raw numbers, the PS3 is stronger in the UK. However, Sony also needs to focus more on the UK because that's where they have the 'weakest' influence on the population. It's where they're lacking the most consumers. Again wrong, France has a bigger population than the UK yet more people in the UK are buying PS3's than France, this tells me they're lacking in France not the UK. Take japan and USA for example. The PS3 may sell more units there in USA, but it also has the weaker influence on the population. Sony needs to increase their brand power in USA because that's where Sony is missing out on the most costumers. I'm pretty sure people have been saying for years that the PS3 is weak in USA & UK. I honselty don't see why there's problem now. It seems to me that people are just arguing for the sake of arguing. When you realise placings mean diddlysquat you'll understand that sheer units are the only measure that matter. The word 'weak' is a context-based word. When ethomaz used the word 'weak', he didn't specify what he was comparing, he left it up to us to find out. there were two different scenaries he could have meant: 1. The PS3 has the weakest install base compared to other consoles in the UK. 2. The PS3 has the weakest install base in the UK compared to other countries. Scenario 1 is true. Scenario 2 is false. If he was using scenario 2, then he would be wrong. However, he was using scenario 1. What he said may be 'didlysquat' as you put it, but that doesn't make his statement false, does it? He should have specified what he was referring to, but English isn't his first language, so I personally would let it slide.

At last someone put it right :D.    I wrote that in the end of the previous page lol, so I guess nobody read it :(

So in other words nobody is wrong :D

Heavenly_King said: Jay520 said: Seece said: Jay520 said: Seece said: Jay520 said: M.U.G.E.N said: I think a few people are mixing up concept of bigger/smaller markets with strongest/weakest markets in this thread..ethomaz is right Well put, my friend. He isn't though, he's saying UK is the PS3's weakest region in Europe, which is just 100% wrong. Just because it's 3rd place, it doesn't really mean anything, least of all being weak. You don't judge these things on chart placings. The word 'weak' is context-based. In terms of raw numbers, the PS3 is stronger in the UK. However, Sony also needs to focus more on the UK because that's where they have the 'weakest' influence on the population. It's where they're lacking the most consumers. Again wrong, France has a bigger population than the UK yet more people in the UK are buying PS3's than France, this tells me they're lacking in France not the UK. Take japan and USA for example. The PS3 may sell more units there in USA, but it also has the weaker influence on the population. Sony needs to increase their brand power in USA because that's where Sony is missing out on the most costumers. I'm pretty sure people have been saying for years that the PS3 is weak in USA & UK. I honselty don't see why there's problem now. It seems to me that people are just arguing for the sake of arguing. When you realise placings mean diddlysquat you'll understand that sheer units are the only measure that matter. The word 'weak' is a context-based word. When ethomaz used the word 'weak', he didn't specify what he was comparing, he left it up to us to find out. there were two different scenaries he could have meant: 1. The PS3 has the weakest install base compared to other consoles in the UK. 2. The PS3 has the weakest install base in the UK compared to other countries. Scenario 1 is true. Scenario 2 is false. If he was using scenario 2, then he would be wrong. However, he was using scenario 1. What he said may be 'didlysquat' as you put it, but that doesn't make his statement false, does it? He should have specified what he was referring to, but English isn't his first language, so I personally would let it slide. At last someone put it right :D.    I wrote that in the end of the previous page lol, so I guess nobody read it :( So in other words nobody is wrong :D

I read it. I usually read every post of any thread I post in. I agree with what you said.

No one replied to you because they wanted to ignore the obvious resolution to their conflict. From what I've seen so far, people have been arguing for the sake of arguing. People have been saying the PS3 is weak in the USA/UK for years. Now, all of a sudden, it's a problem?

This gen is getting old. People are running out of things to argue over.

ultraslick said: Solid-Stark said: Jay520 said: You guys know what ethomaz is trying to say. Stop trying to give him a hard time. If you use the word 'weak' in context, then you would discover that ethomaz is correct. The PS brand could see the most improvement in the UK. Sure, the PS3 sells the most units there, but that doesn't change the fact that the PS brand in that country is a lot lower than it could be. The PS brand is weak there and Sony needs to attack that market if they want a higher overall install base. I'm sure Sony wants to have a large install base world wide. In order to do that, they need to attack the markets where they are weak, or the markets where they are missing out on the most potential customers (Us, Uk, etc.) Couldn't have said it better myself. But you know users like kowen. I also agree, so frustrating to read that back and forth. I think Kowen just gets bored and screws with people to provide conflict for the sake of conflict.

I'm not the one to talk about people, espescially when they're not around, but I must say I agree. I've witnessed him using aggression for the smallest of mistakes that people make. He does have a tendency to make a thread uncomfortable for anyone who may be slightly wrong or misinformed in their views. I sometimes think he enjoys conflict.

Of course, that's just my view from my limited perspective.

gaming is completely mashed in the UK. all you get is dance games in the chart every week

kowenicki said: osamanobama said: Icyedge said: Strongest and weakest is relative, depending on the logic behind it both can be said. Its true that if you compare to its competitors UK is PS3 weakest region. But its also a strong region for Sony when it comes to overall sales. You guys are arguing for absolutely no reason. guess who decided to make a big deal about it... hint they hate the ps3.   people like kowen and seece hang on every word of ethomaz, just waiting to pounce even if what he said isnt incorrect, its because of partisonship of a console Utter horseshit and oh so ironic, you pounce on virtually ever post I make these days....  We actually have pretty good discussions with ethomaz and a pretty good relationship.... go ask him Meanwhile you have entered the thread merely to throw insults and generally try to cause bad feeling.... as ever.

you should say hi to kettle for me

kowenicki said: osamanobama said: kowenicki said: osamanobama said: Icyedge said: Strongest and weakest is relative, depending on the logic behind it both can be said. Its true that if you compare to its competitors UK is PS3 weakest region. But its also a strong region for Sony when it comes to overall sales. You guys are arguing for absolutely no reason. guess who decided to make a big deal about it... hint they hate the ps3.   people like kowen and seece hang on every word of ethomaz, just waiting to pounce even if what he said isnt incorrect, its because of partisonship of a console Utter horseshit and oh so ironic, you pounce on virtually ever post I make these days....  We actually have pretty good discussions with ethomaz and a pretty good relationship.... go ask him Meanwhile you have entered the thread merely to throw insults and generally try to cause bad feeling.... as ever. you should say hi to kettle for me hi kettle.

lol. i do have to agree that was funny.

but i digress, mind telling/showing me the last time i have even said anything negative about the xbox, or tried to start some flame war over meaningless things about how a console is doing

kowenicki said: Jay520 said: ultraslick said: Solid-Stark said: Jay520 said: You guys know what ethomaz is trying to say. Stop trying to give him a hard time. If you use the word 'weak' in context, then you would discover that ethomaz is correct. The PS brand could see the most improvement in the UK. Sure, the PS3 sells the most units there, but that doesn't change the fact that the PS brand in that country is a lot lower than it could be. The PS brand is weak there and Sony needs to attack that market if they want a higher overall install base. I'm sure Sony wants to have a large install base world wide. In order to do that, they need to attack the markets where they are weak, or the markets where they are missing out on the most potential customers (Us, Uk, etc.) Couldn't have said it better myself. But you know users like kowen. I also agree, so frustrating to read that back and forth. I think Kowen just gets bored and screws with people to provide conflict for the sake of conflict. I'm not the one to talk about people, espescially when they're not around, but I must say I agree. I've witnessed him using aggression for the smallest of mistakes that people make -1. He does have a tendency to make a thread uncomfortable for anyone who may be slightly wrong or misinformed in their views -2. I sometimes think he enjoys conflict 3. Of course, that's just my view from my limited perspective. 1. and you're wrong pal!!... oh shit...  erm... 2. hey... I like educating people. 3. who doesnt like a healthy debate?

All points are fair I suppose. I have natural tendency to oppose debates & arguments, due to the way they usually conclude, so I may have over-exaggerated a bit when giving my view. I guess there's nothing wrong with a debate when all parties are fair & reasonable. Sadly, that's usually not the case on the internets.

Seece said: Jay520 said: Seece said: Jay520 said: M.U.G.E.N said: I think a few people are mixing up concept of bigger/smaller markets with strongest/weakest markets in this thread..ethomaz is right Well put, my friend. He isn't though, he's saying UK is the PS3's weakest region in Europe, which is just 100% wrong. Just because it's 3rd place, it doesn't really mean anything, least of all being weak. You don't judge these things on chart placings. The word 'weak' is context-based. In terms of raw numbers, the PS3 is stronger in the UK. However, Sony also needs to focus more on the UK because that's where they have the 'weakest' influence on the population. It's where they're lacking the most consumers. Again wrong, France has a bigger population than the UK yet more people in the UK are buying PS3's than France, this tells me they're lacking in France not the UK. Take japan and USA for example. The PS3 may sell more units there in USA, but it also has the weaker influence on the population. Sony needs to increase their brand power in USA because that's where Sony is missing out on the most costumers. I'm pretty sure people have been saying for years that the PS3 is weak in USA & UK. I honselty don't see why there's problem now. It seems to me that people are just arguing for the sake of arguing. When you realise placings mean diddlysquat you'll understand that sheer units are the only measure that matter.

Placing by itself, if sales are satisfying, doesn't matter for companies (with one noteworthy exception I'll specify hereinafter), it's more an e-peen for fans. But market share matters, and market share in one of the three biggest single national markets for videogames matters even more. And if in the past increasing it could mean for PS3 clashing with XB360, now it doesn't anymore, there are the potential users Wii ceased catering for or always failed to despite having the potential and that XB360 doesn't cater for either, for example. To do it Sony should make the mix offered by PS3 more appealing, and pricing is an important ingredient, but not the sole. This applies WW, but in USA and UK some other necessary ingredients are either missing or scarcer than those needed in the rest of EMEAA and America and in Japan. The simplest scenario, although not inexpensive, could be that PS3 library already contain the necessary games for USA and UK but not market them effectively enough.

When does placing matter? When it's 1st place with a large gap from the 2nd, in this case it means not only more money, but also power.

kowenicki said: I didnt say thats what you do... But it isnt a meaningless discussion on a site and forum centered on sales. Facts are hard to dispute so I undertsand they cause consternation, but a healthy debate and good old argument is perfectly fine in my book.  I dont understand why it has to become personal. For the record... and I have said this often... I have no issue with sony hardware (its just hardware) and no issue with Sony (thought I think they have really fucked themselves this gen from a business perspective), I have probvably bought more sony hardware in my lifetime than the majorioty here.  I do have a real problem with people who think Sony (or Nintendo) are some kind of holier than thou corporation that exist solely for the pleasure of their "fans".  It especially bugs me when that is based on some misplaced nonsense about Japanese ethics.  They are businesses and are no different to MS, Apple or anyone else.

Japanese corporation (or german, swiss ect) arent holier then thou but their heads up does behave differently then american corporation. This gen, its even because of their ideals Sony got so much trouble. Dont misread me, they want money, they need money. But they design their products before thinking of money, which is different from the process of most american companies. Product design is just an example out of many. As example, there was a recent news saying Nintendo heads up would cut their salary (not bonus, their salary) because of the drop of Nintendo market value, you dont see that in america. Though, this doesnt justify all fanboy talk out there ; ), american companies are not the devil lol, just different mentality.

osamanobama said: Seece said: osamanobama said: Seece said: God get over yourself, you're wrong. Sony don't measure it like that, if they sell 1 mill in UK and 800k in France, they're stronger in the UK COMMON SENSE. what is with your arogance? get off you high horse and get over yourself You're a fine one to talk. Ethomaz quite often persists with incorrect gibberish, I'm not gonan stop correcting it when I see it. thanks man, you too kind.   you mind telling me where ethomaz was wrong. do you to feel putting more focus on markets where your competetors are stronger will lead to bankruptcy like kowen does.

I've repeatedly heard that MS's efforts in Japan are a waste for that very reason.

I swear, the more this discussion goes on the hypocrisy gets unveiled ...