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Forums - General Discussion - Why do we exist,GOD or BIG BANG theory?

 

Who created everything?

GOD 184 41.82%
 
BIG BANG 251 57.05%
 
Total:435
weaveworld said:
Faxanadu said:
sapphi_snake said:
Faxanadu said:
The big bang is a theory.
God is not.

Yep. It's a fairy tale.

I dont know. All I meant is that it is not a scientific theory and hence ranks quite low in plausibility.

That's a nice way of putting it.

I guess the concept of god is something of an urban legend (yes, i know the term doesn't do justice to this masterpiece) that got waaaaaaaay out of hand. (and it got used to benefit the happy few)

Again, I am not sure. I would think that somehow the human mind does need a way of explaining "unnatural" things / having a relief vent when stuff goes wrong so that they dont need to find a logical explaination / dont have to blame it on themselves. So some higher entity is being used to explain / take the blame.

Since I am no psychologist or somesuch, I cannot really be seen as an expert though.



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Science is the how, God is the why. To understand science is to understand the mind of God.



snakenobi said:
sapphi_snake said:
snakenobi said:

yeah religion isn't but GOD is

not the GOD that religion describes but the higher power which can be in any dimersion or form which may or may not even have control over it.

some people who understood it tried to support people through life,thats all what religion is a pathway to next world which may or may not exist.

What makes you think that there is such a higher power? Have you ever seen any evidence that suggested the existence of such a thing?

have you ever seen evidence of science or big bang

do you know what is the "Large Hadron collider"?



snakenobi said:

1) yes religion does define GOD as that higher power but most people following it don't.even the people at top right now may or may not.the people who created it did but as i said the next generation doesn't carry on the same mindset,they imagine and live in a different world

as for the scientist argument,i did actually mean that scientist believe in big bang and not higher power.and they believe that big bang is explainable and hence thing of it as the correct but many actually stop at that and thing that is where it all started which i disagree with

yeah cosmological argument seems to prove it when it talks about time and space but 2)if that is the truth then science fails.It would have to be another dimension which we cannot comprehend.

1) Yes they do. If god is not a higher power then he is no god.

2) The goal of science is to find out the truth of how the world work so if that is the truth that science found in that theory then science, by definition, didn't fail. Just because you do not like the result does not mean that it failed.

And don't forget what I said in an earlier post: if god exist and is omnipotent then he could have created the world 5 minutes ago and make it look like the big ban happened without him and make it look like this thread existed before 5 minutes ago (including our memories of it).

Science tries to understand the world as we can discern it but it can never prove the nonexistence of any omnipotent god (whether abrahamic or from other religious tradition) as such an entity could create the world to look like was created a different way.

All science can do is try its best to explain how the world is. If it contradicts holy writ then it is up to the believer, individually, to judge if he believes in a literal interpretation of his holy text and disbelieve science, whether he believes that those parts of the holy texts which contradict our best understanding of how the world works are allegorical or metaphorical or whether he believes that they are wrong, thus casting a shadow on the other parts of the holy texts.

Science in itself cannot disprove faith for faith is things believed without physical proof. You wouldn't say that you have faith that gravity exists because you just need to jump to experience it.

BTW, if you follow Star Trek, science cannot prove the nonexistence of Q either.

snakenobi said:

science means reasoning that everything comes from something and goes into another thing,its just a concept and way of thinking

and if science says we came from big bang and there was never nothing before then it condradicts its own basis.science in the end will have to agree that there has to be be something before BIG BANG in any dimension or form which we may not even comprehend today

Straw man alert. You define science to be something it is not and then claim it contradicts itself.

Science does not mean reasoning in a vacuum. Science uses reasoning to formulate its theories but these theories need to have a strong foundation of empirical data from repeatable experimentation before they are widely accepted. What you describe is more akin to philosophy.

And science doesn't say that there was nothing before the big bang; one of the theories postulates that there was no before before the big bang (like there is no north north of the north pole) while others postulate other things. Which theory is the most likely to be true? We do not know yet, which is why it is still an active field of research.

Note also that science cannot contradict itself as all it is is a (very) educated (by experiment) best guess explanation of how the world is. So if on one hand the world appear to have a conservation of mass behaviour and one the other hand it appears to create mass out of nothing (the big bang) then it is not because science contradict itself, but because the universe gives us contradictory data.

For example, in Newton's time science had two contradictory understanding of light. Newton's theory said that light was made of particles while huygens' theory said that light was made of waves. Centuries later we finally understood, thanks to the development of quantum mechanics, that light (and all of matter) is both a particle and a wave form. Incidentally, if you like video games, music or movies then you have used that scientific theory as it was instrumental in the creation of the laser used to read the CDs/DVDs/Blu-Rays commonly used by these medium.

So if science seems to contradict itself it doesn't mean that science, as a whole, is wrong, but it means that either one of the contradictory theories is wrong or that we do not understand the world well enough to create a theory explaining all the facts that the contradictory theories deal with.



"I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it"

 

SqueakySamurai said:
BULLDOGG said:

what turned me off to the whole god thing. was my boss. he is a big time christian. i told him when i was young and living in California. we lived at a apartment that had a pool in the middle of it. in the year we lived there i saved not one but two toddlers from drowning. and that would get me into heaven if it exsisted. he told me if i dont accept Jesus Christ as my lord and savior. i would go to hell no matter what i did. then i told him his god is not so awsome as he thinks he is. if he wasnt my wifes uncle. i would probably have been fired. lol but he is a good guy as long as you dont talk religion with him.

That's true, because if all you have to do is do good things, then people would do good things just to get into heaven, therefore making it a selfish act. But Jesus Crist was crucified so you could join him in heaven, he was whipped and stabbed and tortured so you could be saved. So when he did that for you, you would have to believe that he was the son of God to get into heaven. There is no good thing that you can do that is a better deed than getting crucifed and being sent to Hell for 3 days so the very people that are murdering you can be saved.

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

It may be true but it is not moral as the christian god is claimed to be omniscient. In that case the moral thing to do would be for it to consider why you performed your good deeds. If you performed them for personal gain (whether on earth or to secure a place in heaven) then those were selfish acts and should not count. If you performed them because you thought it was the right thing to do then those were selfless acts and should count.

If a person that does the right things for the right reason does not get into heaven because they did not happen to believe in the divinity of jesus and thus did not accept him as lord and savior but another that did not do the right thing goes into heaven because they believed in jesus as their lord an savior (say, an abortion clininc bomber) then what you have is not a moral system that rewards those that deserve it and punishes those that don't but an amoral system that rewards people based on an arbitrary criteria.



"I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it"

 

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We should all watch some Through the Wormhole, maybe that will clear things up.



The big bang isn't a who. With that minor quibble aside, I certainly think the big bang is the most credible explanation that currently exists. Its actually supported by data!



sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
Runa216 said:
Wow, I cannot in my right mind put forth the effort to explain how much is wrong with this thread. the very fact that almost 40% of people said God did it has me scared for the future generations and furthers my worries for the education level of people in the world.

Seriously people, faith is not science, get over yourself and the whole wide world will be better for it.

I am appalled by your collective ignorance.


Wow, I cannot in  my right mind put forth the effort to explain how much is wrong with this thread. The very fact that 60% of people said God didnt do it and that everyhing came out of nothing based on nothing has me scared for the future generations and furthers my wories for the education level of people in the world.

Seriously people, faith and science dont go against eachother, get over yourself and the whole wide world will be better for it.

i am appalled by your collective ignorance.

Sorry, when you say it, it just sounds silly.


At least it doesnt sound arrogant and cocky



snakenobi said:
Runa216 said:
Cirio said:
Runa216 said:
Wow, I cannot in my right mind put forth the effort to explain how much is wrong with this thread. the very fact that almost 40% of people said God did it has me scared for the future generations and furthers my worries for the education level of people in the world.

Seriously people, faith is not science, get over yourself and the whole wide world will be better for it.

I am appalled by your collective ignorance.

Care to elaborate?

No not really.  why?  becuase it doesn't matter what kind of person you are (whether you agree with me or not), I won't be changing anyone's mind or making some deep meaningful statement worth quoting.  

Science is good for you, that is all :P

now i am scared for future generation cause of your ignorance and blind belief

lolwat? really? 



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DeadNotSleeping said:
Science is the how, God is the why. To understand science is to understand the mind of God.


This is very true and very important sentence to this discussion. Nicely put