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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - So Pachter Says "Nintendo Is Too Late"....That's Great News For Nintendo !

badgenome said:
Actually, he said they're too late to catch the HD wave, but that the Wii U will also be very successful anyway. So they're not too late, but they'll still fail just the same.





“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

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Mr Khan said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Mr Khan said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
badgenome said:
Actually, he said they're too late to catch the HD wave, but that the Wii U will also be very successful anyway. So they're not too late, but they'll still fail just the same.


Which is still wrong, as the only wave was from graphics whores (which included game developers), not the public. And they haven't gotten past that, so it's not too late to catch the wave from developers.

The public is another matter (falling stocks, when they rose after E3 2006).

But fell after E3 2005, which is the better E3 to compare this to


No, because almost no information was given about the next system then, not even the controller, and no announced games. Both of which was not the case here, and there were system demonstrations, which was also present at E3 06.

What made you think this was more comparable to E3 05?

Lack of real software(1) and the console's imminent release(2), crippling lack of details(3) and confusion about where the device is headed(4), all of which were present at E3 2005 (which predated the reveal of the controller. In this case they had the opposite problem with too much emphasis on the controller and not enough on the device itself)


1. No, 05 was lack of ANY software. This has a number of games announced, even if almost none were playable.

2. What? 06 was before the Wii's launch, and from the timeframe, but since the next system has a six month range, neither E3 before the Wii is really comparable at the moment.

3. No. We know the controller, some basic specs, and even behind the scenes, we were given the rough power of the system. 05 was a lack of almost any information.

4. 05 wasn't confusion. It was loads of speculation of what it would be. Here, the confusion isn't about lack of information. It's confusion about the information GIVEN. People confused the announced system for a handheld because of information STATED, not because of NO information.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Pachter is right.

I talked to a few other high-level analysts at major publishers that were very bearish on the WiiU as well. Pachter is right on the timing as well. WiiU will only have about 1 year to sell on market before other devices are released. That means that it won't have a large amount of time to garner significant market share to allow for a lot of say with the next-gen consoles in terms of game design vs. PS4/X720 or whatever said iterations are named. Comparatively, had it released this year or a year prior, it would of had 2-3 years of breathing room, and able to significantly differentiate itself from next-gen.

I would imagine that due to the release schedule, Sony and Microsoft can maneuver knowing the WiiU specs, resulting with more powerful consoles at a better price-performance ratio, therefore a better value proposition for consumers.

If the Tablet isn't used properly (which I question the viability of), then it will have a significant time differentiating itself from the other products as a good buy in the next wave of consoles - thus hurting it significantly once its a 3-horse race. Furthermore, I am wondering what the cost constraints on the tablets are - I am worried that their cost to build may make the WiiU very expensive compared to the other next-gen systems (remember, the Wii was $50 less than the cheapest Xbox 360 and $250 less than the cheapest PS3 on launch day and came with a great free game).

Add to it many questions about online integration, and Nintendo's poor track record with it, and it will be questionable how well WiiU will perform concerning DLC which will be absolutely critical to next-gen title successes. Development costs will expand significantly next generation, and titles will need to be able to generate more income via more and more DLC once the title has been acertained as a success, and will meet certain goals with the sales of DLC.

Unless something amazing happens that I just can't see it reaching the success of the Wii. I think the WiiU will likely sell between 35 million and 50 million consoles.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

At this point it's too soon to say whether WiiU will fail or not.



"I would imagine that due to the release schedule, Sony and Microsoft can maneuver knowing the WiiU specs, resulting with more powerful consoles at a better price-performance ratio, therefore a better value proposition for consumers."

Specs are not value for most gamers. That is a delusion the enthusiasts keep telling themselves. They said it about the PSP versus the DS. Even when the Wii started to falter, it wasn't because people magically realized the specs were too low, it was the games.

I mean, how hard is it to understand that with video game systems, the games are the real value proposition?

Incidentally, the games so far look really uninteresting (I don't care if many are tech demos, they are really dumb ones), and that is the reason to doubt this system, not this stupid myth about console wars being decided by the most powerful system.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

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Eddie_Raja said:
DélioPT said:
To me, what he is saying is: "ok, there already exist two HD machines on the market who had all the impact to themselves. Now, with Wii U, Nintendo will fail to impress gamers in general because HD has already been done."
This is true. But now, it`s only one side of things, because PS4 and Xbox 720 will still be in HD with better graphics. So, in a sense, if HD won`t work for Wii U, it won´t work for Sony and Microsoft`s new consoles as it did with Xbox 360 and PS3.

Will they be that much powerful to still impress? No one knows. Personally i think they won`t. I see it, as many have pointed out, as PS2>GC>Xbox.

About Nintendo Wii U`s power, i read in an article where some devs think that it will have 50% more processing power than PS3 and Xbox 360 - http://www.industrygamers.com/news/wii-u-is-actually-50-more-powerful-than-ps3---report/

Pachter`s mistake continues to be that "power" sells consoles. PS2 and Wii weren`t the best and just look at their sales.

"Pachter says he believes Microsoft and Sony will continue to reduce the price of their consoles going forward, and if the Wii U is too expensive compared with those alternatives, it could be in for trouble."
That didn`t stop both PS2 and PS1 to be generation leaders despite having cheaper consoles on the market when they arrived.

This is what people like you don't get: 50% is not enough!  The ps3 is litterally 10 times more powerful than the PS2 and the PS2 was 10 times more powerful than the PS1.  THe dreamcast on the otherhand was only about 2-4 times better than the previous generation and look what happened:  it sold a mediocre amount of consoles until the real heavy hitters launched and it was destroyed.  

The Wii U will not sell well because it isn't that much stronger than the current gen and it will be weaker than the next gen competition.

To those that bring up the controller as an example of how it may succeed, keep this in mind:  Nintendo has basically alienated third parties, and what do third parties make?  Oh that's right, most of the HD games.

 

P.S.  LOL at Ghost Recon Online.  A port of an already free PC shooter doesn't count!

You didn`t get my point. What i tried to sat is, in opposition to Pachter, was that power isn`t enough for a console to succeed and win a generation. PS1 and PS2 are good examples of that - even the Wii is. Pachter thinks that going HD won`t help Nintendo, because it`s been done. But in that case, it won`t help MS and Sony because it`s been done for them aswell. And better graphics doesn`t mean you will sell the most. That`s why i mentioned PS1 and PS2. There were more powerful consoles than them, yet, they still outsold the competition.

Yes, it will very likely be inferior the MS and Sony`s next consoles, but no one knows for how much.

About the third parties, Nintendo is really trying the handle that this time.



LordTheNightKnight said:

"I would imagine that due to the release schedule, Sony and Microsoft can maneuver knowing the WiiU specs, resulting with more powerful consoles at a better price-performance ratio, therefore a better value proposition for consumers."

Specs are not value for most gamers. That is a delusion the enthusiasts keep telling themselves. They said it about the PSP versus the DS. Even when the Wii started to falter, it wasn't because people magically realized the specs were too low, it was the games.

I mean, how hard is it to understand that with video game systems, the games are the real value proposition?

Incidentally, the games so far look really uninteresting (I don't care if many are tech demos, they are really dumb ones), and that is the reason to doubt this system, not this stupid myth about console wars being decided by the most powerful system.

And the Wii proved that without similar power levels of the other comparable consoles, it won't get the same games. Therefore, system performance does play a part in the scheme of things - if you have a PS4/X720 at similar power levels, and the WiiU at 50 or 60%, I would imagine that developers may pidgeonhole it like they did the Wii. That is why power matters.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

mrstickball said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

"I would imagine that due to the release schedule, Sony and Microsoft can maneuver knowing the WiiU specs, resulting with more powerful consoles at a better price-performance ratio, therefore a better value proposition for consumers."

Specs are not value for most gamers. That is a delusion the enthusiasts keep telling themselves. They said it about the PSP versus the DS. Even when the Wii started to falter, it wasn't because people magically realized the specs were too low, it was the games.

I mean, how hard is it to understand that with video game systems, the games are the real value proposition?

Incidentally, the games so far look really uninteresting (I don't care if many are tech demos, they are really dumb ones), and that is the reason to doubt this system, not this stupid myth about console wars being decided by the most powerful system.

And the Wii proved that without similar power levels of the other comparable consoles, it won't get the same games. Therefore, system performance does play a part in the scheme of things - if you have a PS4/X720 at similar power levels, and the WiiU at 50 or 60%, I would imagine that developers may pidgeonhole it like they did the Wii. That is why power matters.

since your stuck on 50% number i'll post a quick 50% for you her as well

say ps2 was 1,000 in power

ps3 is 10,000 in power.  Its what 10x or 1,000% more powerful

Lest say the Wii U is ONLY 50% more powerful, even though we have no idea what context that was taken in and what power was measured ect., but lets just assume 50% more

10,000 x 1.5 is what 15,000 power?  so it has 5,000 more power than the ps3.  the ps3 only has 10,000 total. 

and you guys are expecting the ps4 to have 100,000 power?  is that what your saying?



It's a bad sign when Nintendo spent most of it's conference talking about how amazing the tablet controller is and the debates focus on the power.

If it sells it'll sell because of Nintendo first party games and the controller, not the power.

Being able to play HD games and having an online network like PSN are just becoming standard features.



mrstickball said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

"I would imagine that due to the release schedule, Sony and Microsoft can maneuver knowing the WiiU specs, resulting with more powerful consoles at a better price-performance ratio, therefore a better value proposition for consumers."

Specs are not value for most gamers. That is a delusion the enthusiasts keep telling themselves. They said it about the PSP versus the DS. Even when the Wii started to falter, it wasn't because people magically realized the specs were too low, it was the games.

I mean, how hard is it to understand that with video game systems, the games are the real value proposition?

Incidentally, the games so far look really uninteresting (I don't care if many are tech demos, they are really dumb ones), and that is the reason to doubt this system, not this stupid myth about console wars being decided by the most powerful system.

And the Wii proved that without similar power levels of the other comparable consoles, it won't get the same games. Therefore, system performance does play a part in the scheme of things - if you have a PS4/X720 at similar power levels, and the WiiU at 50 or 60%, I would imagine that developers may pidgeonhole it like they did the Wii. That is why power matters.


No, developers proved they didn't want to work on the Wii. Again, the specs matter to the enthusiasts (which includes people who make games), not to the mainstream gamers (which counts people that buy GTA and CoD).

Unless that is what you meant, but you implied that developers get to call the shots, and the will of the customers isn't to be taken into account.

The customers chose ever console generation winner, not the developers. And specs only mattered to them when Nintendo wasn't making more powerful systems, as the Playstation 1 and 2 weren't the leader in specs.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs