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Barozi on 14 June 2011
Sri Lumpa said:
Barozi said:
sc94597 said:
snakenobi said:
they thinkg its wii all over again CAUSE wii u is still boasting of doing what this gen was done by hd console 

In which ways? By moving to a now, more acceptable, and widespread, resolution compared to 5 years ago? What do you want them to do? Have the console support 1440p, which very few televisions support? I do hope you aren't assuming that Nintendo has 'boasted' about anything other than the Wii U's resolution capabilities. If we're discussing the fidelity of the tech demos, then I have to disagree with your assessment, but regardless Nintendo hasn't been boasting anything specific in relation to them so your point is without subtstance. The tech demos pull off just as difficult feats, if not more, with  5 weeks of development behind them, as what we can see in the top of the line games on current generation platforms while running at Native 1080p and 60fps(compared to the sub-720p 30fps of current consoles.) Many of the things accomplished in both tech demos the PS360 struggle with, and that is at sub-720p/720p native resolutions. Let's not forget that both the cpu and gpu of the Wii U will be at least 3 generations ahead of what the PS360 have; and the cpu is based on a top of the line architecture from IBM. So what is 'boasted" by Nintendo? Games will run at 1080p 60fps with a lowest common factor of PS360 quality graphical fidelity and speculation based on hardware can tell us that it will be much more than that, but of course, with good reason, Nintendo is reluctant to give much more than what we get from the bolded until they're closer to release. So is Nintendo boasting or are you making assumptions and have a distorted idea that they're Nintendo's ideals of progression. But maybe you'll reveal something I have not observed nor considered that will make me see your statement as valid; however, I doubt it.


proof ?

At the moment Nintendo only confirmed that games can be upscaled to 1080p. Which is the same as EVERY single Xbox 360 game and about half of all PS3 games. 1080p is supported, that's it. Haven't read anything that they will run natively on 1080p or that they will all run at 60 frames per second.
Which is by the way VERY unlikely. It's not like the technology will suddenly stop. That Unreal Engine 4 promo tech demo won't run at 60FPS and 1080p on modern PCs.

1080p and 30FPS will be the absolute maximum that can be achieved with modern graphics. Doesn't mean though that technical less complex games like NSMB WiiU couldn't run with 60FPS. But that's not much different to XBLA or PSN games that also support native 1080p.

Proof?

You are both making assumptions. Nintendo said that the console was 1080p but they didn't say whether most/all games were native 1080p or whether they are 720p (or less) upscaled. We will have to wait until real games come out (or at least until 3rd party developers have had the final hardware for a while and can talk about it) to know whether it is only slightly more powerful than the PS360 (and thus mostly 720p upscaled except for select games) or if there is enough improvement over them to run most games at 1080p (though even then I would expect a few of the most demanding games to be at less than 1080p).

So can the Wii U do 1080p? YES. Can it do 1080p for most/all games out today on other consoles/PC? MAYBE. Time will tell, unless Nintendo starts talking up their hardware details (which I seriously doubt).

If I was Nintendo I would make sure that their new console can run most games at 1080p natively as while it wouldn't give them that much of an advantage against the PS360 it would help make sure that when MS and Sony launch a new console they can still get the same games, except toned down and maybe in 720p then.

That said, it would be hard for them to find a GPU that is barely more powerful than the RSX/Xenos, so I personally expect the PS3 to Wii U gap to be similar to the Gamecube to Wii gap (2-2.5 times more powerful). I don't base it on any source, just my expectations. 

Proof is right there in the OP.

I'm not making an assumption. An assumption would be: Wii U is not capable of doing 1080p.

I just said that (at the very minimum) 1080p is supported because and that is what I find interesting Nintendo never said that games will run natively with 1080p resolution.



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amp316 on 14 June 2011

Whether it runs 1080p or not really doesn't matter. I just can't wait to hear posters claiming that there's nothing on the Wii U that looks any better than the original Halo or God of War. You know that it's going to happen.



Proud member of the SONIC SUPPORT SQUAD

Tag "Sorry man. Someone pissed in my Wheaties."

"There are like ten games a year that sell over a million units."  High Voltage CEO -  Eric Nofsinger

Barozi on 14 June 2011
Viper1 said:
Barozi said:

proof ?

At the moment Nintendo only confirmed that games can be upscaled to 1080p. Which is the same as EVERY single Xbox 360 game and about half of all PS3 games. 1080p is supported, that's it. Haven't read anything that they will run natively on 1080p or that they will all run at 60 frames per second.
Which is by the way VERY unlikely. It's not like the technology will suddenly stop. That Unreal Engine 4 promo tech demo won't run at 60FPS and 1080p on modern PCs.

1080p and 30FPS will be the absolute maximum that can be achieved with modern graphics. Doesn't mean though that technical less complex games like NSMB WiiU couldn't run with 60FPS. But that's not much different to XBLA or PSN games that also support native 1080p.

Nintendo never once said anything about upscaling outside of stating Wii U would not upscale Wii titles.

And please don't comment about modern graphics if you're going to make silly statements like that.  Everybody that games on a PC just kinda snickered at you.

But when you just say that it can do 1080p then you don't need to say that it's only upscaled, because it would be true either way. Would be stupid for a company anyway to say that it's not true full HD. It's just remarkable that Nintendo talks "all the time" about 1080p with their Wii U, but fail to mention if the games actually run on that resolution or not. Very vague. I bet they're not sure themselves.


not a silly statement afterall huh ?
Obviously I was not talking about games like Duke Nukem Forever or World of Warcraft or anything like that.
Good luck finding a PC that can do BF3 at 60 frames per second with MAX settings and 1080p (or 1200p) when it comes out in a few months.



Sri Lumpa on 14 June 2011
Barozi said:
Sri Lumpa said:
Barozi said:
sc94597 said:
snakenobi said:
they thinkg its wii all over again CAUSE wii u is still boasting of doing what this gen was done by hd console 

In which ways? By moving to a now, more acceptable, and widespread, resolution compared to 5 years ago? What do you want them to do? Have the console support 1440p, which very few televisions support? I do hope you aren't assuming that Nintendo has 'boasted' about anything other than the Wii U's resolution capabilities. If we're discussing the fidelity of the tech demos, then I have to disagree with your assessment, but regardless Nintendo hasn't been boasting anything specific in relation to them so your point is without subtstance. The tech demos pull off just as difficult feats, if not more, with  5 weeks of development behind them, as what we can see in the top of the line games on current generation platforms while running at Native 1080p and 60fps(compared to the sub-720p 30fps of current consoles.) Many of the things accomplished in both tech demos the PS360 struggle with, and that is at sub-720p/720p native resolutions. Let's not forget that both the cpu and gpu of the Wii U will be at least 3 generations ahead of what the PS360 have; and the cpu is based on a top of the line architecture from IBM. So what is 'boasted" by Nintendo? Games will run at 1080p 60fps with a lowest common factor of PS360 quality graphical fidelity and speculation based on hardware can tell us that it will be much more than that, but of course, with good reason, Nintendo is reluctant to give much more than what we get from the bolded until they're closer to release. So is Nintendo boasting or are you making assumptions and have a distorted idea that they're Nintendo's ideals of progression. But maybe you'll reveal something I have not observed nor considered that will make me see your statement as valid; however, I doubt it.


proof ?

At the moment Nintendo only confirmed that games can be upscaled to 1080p. Which is the same as EVERY single Xbox 360 game and about half of all PS3 games. 1080p is supported, that's it. Haven't read anything that they will run natively on 1080p or that they will all run at 60 frames per second.
Which is by the way VERY unlikely. It's not like the technology will suddenly stop. That Unreal Engine 4 promo tech demo won't run at 60FPS and 1080p on modern PCs.

1080p and 30FPS will be the absolute maximum that can be achieved with modern graphics. Doesn't mean though that technical less complex games like NSMB WiiU couldn't run with 60FPS. But that's not much different to XBLA or PSN games that also support native 1080p.

Proof?

You are both making assumptions. Nintendo said that the console was 1080p but they didn't say whether most/all games were native 1080p or whether they are 720p (or less) upscaled. We will have to wait until real games come out (or at least until 3rd party developers have had the final hardware for a while and can talk about it) to know whether it is only slightly more powerful than the PS360 (and thus mostly 720p upscaled except for select games) or if there is enough improvement over them to run most games at 1080p (though even then I would expect a few of the most demanding games to be at less than 1080p).

So can the Wii U do 1080p? YES. Can it do 1080p for most/all games out today on other consoles/PC? MAYBE. Time will tell, unless Nintendo starts talking up their hardware details (which I seriously doubt).

If I was Nintendo I would make sure that their new console can run most games at 1080p natively as while it wouldn't give them that much of an advantage against the PS360 it would help make sure that when MS and Sony launch a new console they can still get the same games, except toned down and maybe in 720p then.

That said, it would be hard for them to find a GPU that is barely more powerful than the RSX/Xenos, so I personally expect the PS3 to Wii U gap to be similar to the Gamecube to Wii gap (2-2.5 times more powerful). I don't base it on any source, just my expectations. 

Proof is right there in the OP.

I'm not making an assumption. An assumption would be: Wii U is not capable of doing 1080p.

I just said that (at the very minimum) 1080p is supported because and that is what I find interesting Nintendo never said that games will run natively with 1080p resolution.

No, you assumed that it will be the same as the PS360 (mostly upscaled), which cannot be derived from what Nintendo said. The opposite cannot be derived either, yet, but one cannot say with certainty one way (mostly upscaled, same as PS360) or the other (mostly native 1080p) yet.

As for you example of what would be an assumption: "Wii U is not capable of doing 1080p". It actually would not be an assumption but flat out wrong given what Nintendo has said.



"I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it"

 

Sri Lumpa on 14 June 2011
Viper1 said:
Barozi said:

1080p and 30FPS will be the absolute maximum that can be achieved with modern graphics. Doesn't mean though that technical less complex games like NSMB WiiU couldn't run with 60FPS. But that's not much different to XBLA or PSN games that also support native 1080p.

Nintendo never once said anything about upscaling outside of stating Wii U would not upscale Wii titles.

And please don't comment about modern graphics if you're going to make silly statements like that.  Everybody that games on a PC just kinda snickered at you.

I didn't snicker at him... I guffawed (got a GTX 580).

 

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4008/33840.png



"I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it"

 

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Sri Lumpa on 14 June 2011
Barozi said:
Viper1 said:
Barozi said:

proof ?

At the moment Nintendo only confirmed that games can be upscaled to 1080p. Which is the same as EVERY single Xbox 360 game and about half of all PS3 games. 1080p is supported, that's it. Haven't read anything that they will run natively on 1080p or that they will all run at 60 frames per second.
Which is by the way VERY unlikely. It's not like the technology will suddenly stop. That Unreal Engine 4 promo tech demo won't run at 60FPS and 1080p on modern PCs.

1080p and 30FPS will be the absolute maximum that can be achieved with modern graphics. Doesn't mean though that technical less complex games like NSMB WiiU couldn't run with 60FPS. But that's not much different to XBLA or PSN games that also support native 1080p.

Nintendo never once said anything about upscaling outside of stating Wii U would not upscale Wii titles.

And please don't comment about modern graphics if you're going to make silly statements like that.  Everybody that games on a PC just kinda snickered at you.

But when you just say that it can do 1080p then you don't need to say that it's only upscaled, because it would be true either way. Would be stupid for a company anyway to say that it's not true full HD. It's just remarkable that Nintendo talks "all the time" about 1080p with their Wii U, but fail to mention if the games actually run on that resolution or not. Very vague. I bet they're not sure themselves.


not a silly statement afterall huh ?
Obviously I was not talking about games like Duke Nukem Forever or World of Warcraft or anything like that.
Good luck finding a PC that can do BF3 at 60 frames per second with MAX settings and 1080p (or 1200p) when it comes out in a few months.

That statement is even more silly than you original one where you said that 1080p and 30 fps were the absolute maximum, given that you tried to prove it with a benchmark showing a modern graphic card doing almost 50% more than the 30fps on average you tout as the absolute maximum. Pretty dumb, right.

Another example taken from my earlier post: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4008/nvidias-geforce-gtx-580/14

60fps at twice the resolution (2560x1600) or almost 100fps at a slighly higher resolution than 1080p, which is more than 50% more than the 60 fps holy grail and a whopping 200% more than your absolute maximum of 30 fps at such a resolution. And please don't tell me that Mass Effect 2 is comparable to those PSN games that can do 1080p.

This doesn't mean that all games can be played at more than 30fps at 1080p (or more than 1080p at 30fps) by modern graphic cards and maybe battlefield 3 will be one of them, but to bust your contention there only need to exist one such game and not only have I showed you one but so have you .

 

Edit: reworked some sentences to to make them more readable.



"I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it"

 

Viper1 on 14 June 2011
Barozi said:
Viper1 said:
Barozi said:

proof ?

At the moment Nintendo only confirmed that games can be upscaled to 1080p. Which is the same as EVERY single Xbox 360 game and about half of all PS3 games. 1080p is supported, that's it. Haven't read anything that they will run natively on 1080p or that they will all run at 60 frames per second.
Which is by the way VERY unlikely. It's not like the technology will suddenly stop. That Unreal Engine 4 promo tech demo won't run at 60FPS and 1080p on modern PCs.

1080p and 30FPS will be the absolute maximum that can be achieved with modern graphics. Doesn't mean though that technical less complex games like NSMB WiiU couldn't run with 60FPS. But that's not much different to XBLA or PSN games that also support native 1080p.

Nintendo never once said anything about upscaling outside of stating Wii U would not upscale Wii titles.

And please don't comment about modern graphics if you're going to make silly statements like that.  Everybody that games on a PC just kinda snickered at you.

But when you just say that it can do 1080p then you don't need to say that it's only upscaled, because it would be true either way. Would be stupid for a company anyway to say that it's not true full HD. It's just remarkable that Nintendo talks "all the time" about 1080p with their Wii U, but fail to mention if the games actually run on that resolution or not. Very vague. I bet they're not sure themselves.


not a silly statement afterall huh ?
Obviously I was not talking about games like Duke Nukem Forever or World of Warcraft or anything like that.
Good luck finding a PC that can do BF3 at 60 frames per second with MAX settings and 1080p (or 1200p) when it comes out in a few months.

I have to run but just wantd to stop by for a moment and check this thread.  Thanks for this reply though.  It's not helping your argument at all .  In fact, it made it much worse.  I'll give a more thorough response tonight.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

HappySqurriel on 14 June 2011

Nintendo claimed the Wii U could output at 1080p, and I thought they claimed that their tech demos were rendered at 1080p, but they won't make the claim that all games will render at 1080p @ 60fps because they won't mandate that; and developers will probably not focus on hitting that as a target.

Depending on what Sony and Microsoft release, at this point in time it is likely that the Wii U may play the same games as Sony and Microsoft's next generation consoles at a lower resolution (720p) and/or a lower frame-rate (30fps), potentially with a reduction in detail, because publishers will want to hit as many platforms with the same game as possible.



blkfish92 on 14 June 2011

This thing better be 1080p as it should have been hd a million years ago!



           

ctalkeb on 14 June 2011
Sri Lumpa said:
Barozi said:
Viper1 said:
Barozi said:

proof ?

At the moment Nintendo only confirmed that games can be upscaled to 1080p. Which is the same as EVERY single Xbox 360 game and about half of all PS3 games. 1080p is supported, that's it. Haven't read anything that they will run natively on 1080p or that they will all run at 60 frames per second.
Which is by the way VERY unlikely. It's not like the technology will suddenly stop. That Unreal Engine 4 promo tech demo won't run at 60FPS and 1080p on modern PCs.

1080p and 30FPS will be the absolute maximum that can be achieved with modern graphics. Doesn't mean though that technical less complex games like NSMB WiiU couldn't run with 60FPS. But that's not much different to XBLA or PSN games that also support native 1080p.

Nintendo never once said anything about upscaling outside of stating Wii U would not upscale Wii titles.

And please don't comment about modern graphics if you're going to make silly statements like that.  Everybody that games on a PC just kinda snickered at you.

But when you just say that it can do 1080p then you don't need to say that it's only upscaled, because it would be true either way. Would be stupid for a company anyway to say that it's not true full HD. It's just remarkable that Nintendo talks "all the time" about 1080p with their Wii U, but fail to mention if the games actually run on that resolution or not. Very vague. I bet they're not sure themselves.


not a silly statement afterall huh ?
Obviously I was not talking about games like Duke Nukem Forever or World of Warcraft or anything like that.
Good luck finding a PC that can do BF3 at 60 frames per second with MAX settings and 1080p (or 1200p) when it comes out in a few months.

That statement is even more silly than you original one where you said that 1080p and 30 fps were the absolute maximum, given that you tried to prove it with a benchmark showing a modern graphic card doing almost 50% more than the 30fps on average you tout as the absolute maximum. Pretty dumb, right.

Another example taken from my earlier post: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4008/nvidias-geforce-gtx-580/14

All I see here is that PC gamers have problems with reading comprehension. If you look further down on the posted comparison you'll find how the HD 4870 does - which is obviously  what he was referring to. How a modern game performs on hardware similiar to what is suspected as being in the Wii U.