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Forums - Gaming Discussion - L.A. Noire was once a six-disc game on Xbox 360

Squilliam on 20 May 2011
LivingMetal said:
Squilliam said:


http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=AAPL

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=SNE


Nice.  But I really don't see the relevance to this thread and myself as well since I do have shares of Microsoft stock as part of my long term retirement mutual funds.  Your intent: Spitefulness maybe..?

Proof that proprietary with simplicity wins over open with increased complexity.



Tease.

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zzamaro on 20 May 2011

It should have been six discs. I have no problem with disc-swaping. Besides, that would make fat (and lazy) Americans get their ass off their couches.



Sorry for bad English.

 

Potable_Toe on 20 May 2011
LivingMetal said:
Mr Puggsly said:
LivingMetal said:

Owning a console which allows the user to purchase and self-install a non-proprietary relatively inexpensive 2.5 SATA hard drive is NOT extreme.  It's smart shopping.  And I'm sure PlayStation extremists will be happy to spin that hard drive as well, enjoying those games.

Should be noted hard drives aren't essential for the 360 but mandatory for PS3.

360 users that don't have a hard drive but want to download things can just use USB memory sticks as well.

 

But any gamer would tell you that if you're going to buy an Xbox 360, you might as well go "big" and buy a 250GB version due to encroaching limitation with the 4GB version such as:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Problems-with-Xbox-360-Slim-4GB-console

As a gamer, don't half-ass it, right?

And, yes you do have the option of buying an Xbox 360 PROPRIETARY USB such... 

wait-wait-wait... you mean like any of these [ http://preview.tinyurl.com/3ltw5by ] "PROPRIETARY" USB sticks?

LivingMetal said:
Mr Puggsly said:
LivingMetal said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I would definitely tell people to, "half ass it." They can save $100 and the only big sacrifice is no online co-op campaign in Halo: Reach? Big deal. I wouldn't tell people to buy the hard drive unless I really think they're gonna utilize it. Most people don't.

Its more important that the PS3 use non-propritary hard drives because a hard drive is mandatory to use a PS3. You also need a lot of storage because of mandatory installs and big updates.


Okay, so I could made the claim that most 160GB PS3 users are only using it for gaming so they have little to no use for upgrading the hard drive.  So therefore, it would make Pearljam's claim of:

"The other forces you to clutter up your HDD and waste several minutes, JUST to try the game. What if you want to go back to a game a few weeks later, but you already deleted the install data? What if the game sucks? You wasted time installing it for nothing, and now have to waste more time deleting it."

...invalid.  So you buy you a 160GB PS3, and you're all set.  So we're in agreeance.  Good stuff, huh?

I'm sorry, I really have no idea what you're babbling about.


Well, I was hoping you would, but sometime turning a blind eye to double standards causes lack of understanding.  But that's cool.  You're not the only one reading these forums.

I think, and I can't be certain here but just run with me for a moment... but I think the reason why he has no idea what you're 'babbling' on about is because~ it is utter nonsence! You seem to have greatly misquoted somebody there in a feeble attempt at a retort.

what I think Mr Puggsly was getting at is that for some people 4GB storage is no issue what-so-ever because on the 360 there aren't any mandatory installs (atleast that i'm aware of) and the update and save files tend to be a poxy few MB. So unless they were going to get their 'Dragon Age' on (ofcourse refering to the rediculous size of the DA save files) they should really have no problem. And I think what you were getting at is that because the PS3 has many many games that do require an install invalidates somebodies claim that you have to install those games, and thus wait for those installs to finish before you can play said games... which to be fair I cannot see your point.

______________________________

On a different note, unless I have missed something glaringly obvious 'double quoting' on this forum is NOT a doddle.



LivingMetal on 20 May 2011
Potable_Toe said:
LivingMetal said:
Mr Puggsly said:
LivingMetal said:

Owning a console which allows the user to purchase and self-install a non-proprietary relatively inexpensive 2.5 SATA hard drive is NOT extreme.  It's smart shopping.  And I'm sure PlayStation extremists will be happy to spin that hard drive as well, enjoying those games.

Should be noted hard drives aren't essential for the 360 but mandatory for PS3.

360 users that don't have a hard drive but want to download things can just use USB memory sticks as well.

 

But any gamer would tell you that if you're going to buy an Xbox 360, you might as well go "big" and buy a 250GB version due to encroaching limitation with the 4GB version such as:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Problems-with-Xbox-360-Slim-4GB-console

As a gamer, don't half-ass it, right?

And, yes you do have the option of buying an Xbox 360 PROPRIETARY USB such... 

wait-wait-wait... you mean like any of these [ http://preview.tinyurl.com/3ltw5by ] "PROPRIETARY" USB sticks?


Ummm... No.  I meant these where they were only meant to be used on the Xbox 360:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003EV7ED8/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=08AMAKTZ2F36EHRM06C3&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

They are "USB," but they are NOT universal.  Facts are facts.  Stick with them.



Tony_Stark on 20 May 2011
LivingMetal said:
Mr Puggsly said:
LivingMetal said:

Owning a console which allows the user to purchase and self-install a non-proprietary relatively inexpensive 2.5 SATA hard drive is NOT extreme.  It's smart shopping.  And I'm sure PlayStation extremists will be happy to spin that hard drive as well, enjoying those games.

Should be noted hard drives aren't essential for the 360 but mandatory for PS3.

360 users that don't have a hard drive but want to download things can just use USB memory sticks as well.

 

But any gamer would tell you that if you're going to buy an Xbox 360, you might as well go "big" and buy a 250GB version due to encroaching limitation with the 4GB version such as:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Problems-with-Xbox-360-Slim-4GB-console

As a gamer, don't half-ass it, right?

And, yes you do have the option of buying an Xbox 360 PROPRIETARY USB such as the Xbox 360 - 16GB 2.0 Flash Drive by Sandisk for only $30 via Amazon.  But you get this NON-PROPRIETARY Western Digital 500GB 2.5 SATA for $55 also from Amazon during the time of this writing.  Much better value here with hard drive prices constantly dropping.  So my successful counter argument and point that "Owning a console which allows the user to purchase and self-install a non-proprietary relatively inexpensive 2.5 SATA hard drive is NOT extreme.  It's smart shopping" still holds true and still stands.

 

Erm, no, I am using a no-name 120GB external HD with a 16G partition formatted by my Xbox for whatever I need. I could also use the 500GB 2.5 SATA drive for the same purpose. Your "smart shopping" comment is pointless, ridiculous, and arrogant. You see, smart shopping isn't always hardware. If the PS3 doesn't have any games that a person wants to play, but the 360 does, then the 360 is the "smart shopping" choice for them. "half assing it" in this case, would be for that person to purchase a PS3. ; )



"with great power, comes great responsibility."

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Tony_Stark on 20 May 2011
zzamaro said:

It should have been six discs. I have no problem with disc-swaping. Besides, that would make fat (and lazy) Americans get their ass off their couches.


"fat" and "lazy" means "prosperous" and "smart" over here mate!



"with great power, comes great responsibility."

SnesTea on 21 May 2011
thranx said:

When PC games need bluray i will see the need. Until then I am fine with DVD or multiple DVD's or download. But if PC's the graphic king do not need bluray than why do xbox's?

Because you install games to PC and then never need the discs again because most games link to steam.



osamanobama on 21 May 2011
Tony_Stark said:
LivingMetal said:
Mr Puggsly said:
LivingMetal said:

Owning a console which allows the user to purchase and self-install a non-proprietary relatively inexpensive 2.5 SATA hard drive is NOT extreme.  It's smart shopping.  And I'm sure PlayStation extremists will be happy to spin that hard drive as well, enjoying those games.

Should be noted hard drives aren't essential for the 360 but mandatory for PS3.

360 users that don't have a hard drive but want to download things can just use USB memory sticks as well.

 

But any gamer would tell you that if you're going to buy an Xbox 360, you might as well go "big" and buy a 250GB version due to encroaching limitation with the 4GB version such as:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Problems-with-Xbox-360-Slim-4GB-console

As a gamer, don't half-ass it, right?

And, yes you do have the option of buying an Xbox 360 PROPRIETARY USB such as the Xbox 360 - 16GB 2.0 Flash Drive by Sandisk for only $30 via Amazon.  But you get this NON-PROPRIETARY Western Digital 500GB 2.5 SATA for $55 also from Amazon during the time of this writing.  Much better value here with hard drive prices constantly dropping.  So my successful counter argument and point that "Owning a console which allows the user to purchase and self-install a non-proprietary relatively inexpensive 2.5 SATA hard drive is NOT extreme.  It's smart shopping" still holds true and still stands.

 

Erm, no, I am using a no-name 120GB external HD with a 16G partition formatted by my Xbox for whatever I need. I could also use the 500GB 2.5 SATA drive for the same purpose. Your "smart shopping" comment is pointless, ridiculous, and arrogant. You see, smart shopping isn't always hardware. If the PS3 doesn't have any games that a person wants to play, but the 360 does, then the 360 is the "smart shopping" choice for them. "half assing it" in this case, would be for that person to purchase a PS3. ; )

that is a good solution, though i think that voids the warranty



Potable_Toe on 21 May 2011
LivingMetal said:
Potable_Toe said:
LivingMetal said:
 

 

But any gamer would tell you that if you're going to buy an Xbox 360, you might as well go "big" and buy a 250GB version due to encroaching limitation with the 4GB version such as:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Problems-with-Xbox-360-Slim-4GB-console

As a gamer, don't half-ass it, right?

And, yes you do have the option of buying an Xbox 360 PROPRIETARY USB such... 

wait-wait-wait... you mean like any of these [ http://preview.tinyurl.com/3ltw5by ] "PROPRIETARY" USB sticks?


Ummm... No.  I meant these where they were only meant to be used on the Xbox 360:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003EV7ED8/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=08AMAKTZ2F36EHRM06C3&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

They are "USB," but they are NOT universal.  Facts are facts.  Stick with them.

Ok, I guess thats my own fault for being a little mystical in my approach, what I was trying to get at is that, you can use any USB enabled memory, i.e. USB Stick/External HDD, with the xbox 360... the only catch is that you can only use upto 16GB per device (or partition I think), just plug it in and it automatically formats the USB stick/EHDD or partitions upto 16GB if there happens to be more than that free.

______________________________

EDIT: just realised this is my second off topic post, of two, in this thread... so I would just like to add that personally I don't much care about disc swapping... but I must admit for all of about 5 seconds it does annoy me, but by that point I am already enjoying the game again.



Alby_da_Wolf on 21 May 2011
Mr Puggsly said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

let's not mix things up: Sony initially shot itself in the foot, killing its HW profits for years, but users had a bigger benefit from it just because Sony accepted to pay the bill selling PS3 at a loss to push it and BD. I was referring to users benefit, not Sony one, that is quite arguable as we don't really know how many losses it was ready to suffer to make it win the format war (although it's obvious the losses were a lot higher than its best case scenario).

Another thing to not forget about optical disc space usefulness: if I'm not wrong, MS charges extra royalties for games on more than 2 discs, so devs make everything possible to avoid them exceed that space. Anyway, about this issue, it's just natural that extra disc space available becomes more useful as time goes by, and that initially it's less important, this has been good for MS, allowing it to not suffer because of it during XB360 first years. Finally, as I wrote other times, even if I don't trust MS, it's a good thing that it and Ninty soundly bashed Sony when it was becomig too arrogant, this benefitted competitors, SW houses and users, and I think Sony too, in the long term. Just as it's good that Ninty doesn't bury anymore MS and Sony in this part of the current gen, balance is good to cater for as many different gamer tastes as possible.

Well its clear Sony anticipated selling a lot more consoles at the higher price points. Surely they were prepared to take some losses, maybe $1 billion. That wouldn't be too difficult to earn back assuming the hardware and software sold significantly better. But since it launched they've lost like $6 billion and that's with PS2 and PSP profits. They could have bought Skype with that kind of money!

 

According to this article MS doesn't charge royalties for multiple discs. "Microsoft does not charge a royalty per disc, but there is a cost of  goods that goes along with manufacturing." http://www.shacknews.com/article/54795/ids-tim-willits-on-rage

So it does cost extra in the sense they gotta pay for the extra discs. Probably in the same way it cost more to make a fancy inlay, booklets, etc.

Isn't $6bln the losses for the whole division, including many products different from consoles? It includes R&D anyway, but yes, even considering unrelated and related but justifiable costs it's hefty compared to, for example, the estimated less than $1bln for Wii R&D, followed by HW profitable since launch, so no further losses (since Wii launch, IIRC, Ninty only had one or two quarters at a loss). It will be remembered as an example of the razor and blades model gone too far.    Although currently the chances of recovering (obviously considering SW and movies too, otherwise from HW only PS3 would need to sell at least 120M units to recover the losses, rough estimate based on initial heavy losses and the fact that even now that it's profitable, Sony will always get a relatively small margin to keep it competitive) aren't bad as they were before Slim and cut to $300 and even worse before the first significant cut to $400.

About the presumed MS royalty, curiously it looks like on the net there are only indirect sources both claiming or denying it. I can't find the link at the moment, but I read somewhere that additional royalties could be due not for MS fault but for the techs used in XB360 discs (like copy protection, etc) and this could be compatible with what Willits stated.

PS: Sorry for the late answer, net and phone not working for two days...



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