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Forums - General Discussion - Bin Laden sons say US broke international law

I agree with Omar.

Bin Laden should have been captured and tried. Heck, even the Nazis, who committed much, much worse crimes than Osama were tried in court and sentanced to death in a civilized manner. Just flying in and shooting him on foreign soil is kinda barbaric and does not set a good example to the rest of the world. Why was this not done with the Nazis, or Saddam Hussein?



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Mr Khan said:
ssj12 said:

All I know is that we started a whole lot of crap... things wont be pretty. And we are going to lose more freedoms over it. Like the PROTECT Bill going through congress right now... the internet here is about to become worse than China's.

Oh that stupid bill that allows companies to lobby the justice dept to force ISPs to block direct-download websites as they see fit? It'll be the end of Megaupload, Mediafire, Rapidshare, Depositfile, etc.

VPN workarounds will be made available with blinding speed if that happens, though, especially since the law wouldn't make the act of accessing the sites or their content illegal, just make them nominally impossible to access in the USA.

It also wouldn't be able to stop torrents or other P2P stuff, just sites that host the torrents

Plus something like that would likely be legally fought by the sites themselves who would lose all that American business (since this whole internet regulation thing is very legally shady compared to the first amendment)

Or am i thinking of another law?

No you pretty much hit the nail on the head EXCEPT the corporations, RIAA, and MPAA all would have the ability to get user IPs and info from websites without the DOJ. They will be able to file their own warrants. They only need the DOJ to shut down websites and make ISPs block traffic to a website.

So pretty much the USA will basically be ran by corporations.

All this in the name of freedom of information, privacy, and civil rights to copyright holders... I really hate copywrong. The current system is already been broken thanks to Disney, now they are making it worse.



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rocketpig said:
superchunk said:
rocketpig said:

Memo from the desk of President Barrack Hussein Obama and the entirety of the United States of America:

There are some of you who feel our raid into Pakistani territory to kill the international terrorist Osama bin Laden was illegal and violated international law. To this, we reply:

Do not care.

Signed,

Everyone


Don't speak for me. I care.

Everyday I am glad to live in America and to be part of this great nation. Its foundation in freedom and justice is something I truly feel is a birthright of every living thing.

However, it is completely disgusting how we throw it away once we leave our borders. From our disgraceful support of Israel to our blind eye to atrocities in Darfur and now Syria, while we step in to help in Libya (obviously for Libya's oil), is simply against the entire moral foundation we proclaim to others.

Any American should not stand for these types of actions regardless if we feel Bin Laden deserved death or not. Its simply not right. If he was unarmed, he should have been arrested and taken back to US alive to be tried and convicted of his crimes. Then the punishment of death (for murdering thousands) would be justified and we as the supposedly moral nation we are would be giving the world the example in justice we should be providing as a world leader.

I disagree because bin Laden was a man ensconced in an idea. The longer he stays around, the longer the idea is fueled. Men like that need to disappear and I commend Obama for doing the smart thing and not giving his followers a single shred of evidence to hold on to after his death. Make the man just go away. No trial, no publicity, nothing for his followers to latch onto and celebrate as a martyrdom.

But this is a VERY special situation. Bin Laden is an exception to the rule because of the things he has done, the organization he runs, and how long he had evaded capture. When it comes to many of the things we do for Israel and to sovereign nations in general, I agree with you whole-heartedly.

But there are times when you throw the rules out the window for the good of your people and the world. This was one of those times.

I agree that he should have died, I don't agree with how it was handled, but what's done is done. I was just interested in this point though, what do you think will happen now that he is dead? Will the US leave the middle-east alone? Will terrorist groups falter and lose some of their strength? Or is it all just a feel good thing for the people of the US? I'm not trying to be patronizing, I just want to know your thoughts on it.



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Good thing thw whole "Kill Osama" thing was faked! *

But if it DID happen:  Perhaps some laws were violated.  I'm not well versed in such things.  I do believe that is the Pakistani government were aware of the U.S.'s intentions, they may have done something to interfere with the operation (ie: tell Bin Laden that his head was going to have one hole too many.).  I know Osama Bin Laden was denounced by his family years before the September 11th attacks and that they can't be held responsible for his actions but if it were MY dad, I'd distance myself from him and shut the fuck up about it.  Yeah, injustisce anywhere is a threat to justice eveywhere and all that but in this particular instance, I'm willing to look the other way.

--Also, I have it on good authority that President Obama had Bin Laden's body was sent to a taxidermist to be stuffed and modified into a toilet so that Obama could shit on Bin Laden's face every day.

 

 

 

*wink, wink



Doobie_wop said:
I agree that he should have died, I don't agree with how it was handled, but what's done is done. I was just interested in this point though, what do you think will happen now that he is dead? Will the US leave the middle-east alone? Will terrorist groups falter and lose some of their strength? Or is it all just a feel good thing for the people of the US? I'm not trying to be patronizing, I just want to know your thoughts on it.

I think it will have terrorists scrambling for awhile. It won't be a huge impact because their organizations are designed to withstand exactly this kind of loss.

Where it WILL impact them is recruitment, I think. Their face is gone. There is nothing left but old videos. There is no body, there is no evidence, there will be no more speeches, attacks, or anything under the banner of the charistmatic bin Laden. The man who brought the mighty (and evil) America to its knees could no longer hide from the might of the United States of America.

They've lost their rallying point, in my opinion. And that's going to be tough to overcome. From what I know of the rest of the organization, there is no one who can replace bin Laden and rally the people in the same way. They're lacking a recognizable (and to them, likable) face to bring them back together and keep the people in check.

I view it like this:

If you had a chance to take a shot at Hitler in 1940 or Stalin in 1935, you take that fucking shot EVERY TIME. I don't care if it was possible to *maybe* take them alive, you go for the sure thing, and that's a bullet in their skull. There are very few people who the majority of the planet consider to be a blight on humanity worthy of instant death. Bin Laden was one of those few and I agree with the decision to erase him from the planet with prejudice.




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ssj12 said:
Mr Khan said:
ssj12 said:

All I know is that we started a whole lot of crap... things wont be pretty. And we are going to lose more freedoms over it. Like the PROTECT Bill going through congress right now... the internet here is about to become worse than China's.

Oh that stupid bill that allows companies to lobby the justice dept to force ISPs to block direct-download websites as they see fit? It'll be the end of Megaupload, Mediafire, Rapidshare, Depositfile, etc.

VPN workarounds will be made available with blinding speed if that happens, though, especially since the law wouldn't make the act of accessing the sites or their content illegal, just make them nominally impossible to access in the USA.

It also wouldn't be able to stop torrents or other P2P stuff, just sites that host the torrents

Plus something like that would likely be legally fought by the sites themselves who would lose all that American business (since this whole internet regulation thing is very legally shady compared to the first amendment)

Or am i thinking of another law?

No you pretty much hit the nail on the head EXCEPT the corporations, RIAA, and MPAA all would have the ability to get user IPs and info from websites without the DOJ. They will be able to file their own warrants. They only need the DOJ to shut down websites and make ISPs block traffic to a website.

So pretty much the USA will basically be ran by corporations.

All this in the name of freedom of information, privacy, and civil rights to copyright holders... I really hate copywrong. The current system is already been broken thanks to Disney, now they are making it worse.

To freely get user IPs and info from the sites themselves?

No way should that be protected. ACLU is gonna be all over their asses on this law, if the corps are allowed to do it without any oversight.



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Mr Khan said:
ssj12 said:
Mr Khan said:
ssj12 said:

All I know is that we started a whole lot of crap... things wont be pretty. And we are going to lose more freedoms over it. Like the PROTECT Bill going through congress right now... the internet here is about to become worse than China's.

Oh that stupid bill that allows companies to lobby the justice dept to force ISPs to block direct-download websites as they see fit? It'll be the end of Megaupload, Mediafire, Rapidshare, Depositfile, etc.

VPN workarounds will be made available with blinding speed if that happens, though, especially since the law wouldn't make the act of accessing the sites or their content illegal, just make them nominally impossible to access in the USA.

It also wouldn't be able to stop torrents or other P2P stuff, just sites that host the torrents

Plus something like that would likely be legally fought by the sites themselves who would lose all that American business (since this whole internet regulation thing is very legally shady compared to the first amendment)

Or am i thinking of another law?

No you pretty much hit the nail on the head EXCEPT the corporations, RIAA, and MPAA all would have the ability to get user IPs and info from websites without the DOJ. They will be able to file their own warrants. They only need the DOJ to shut down websites and make ISPs block traffic to a website.

So pretty much the USA will basically be ran by corporations.

All this in the name of freedom of information, privacy, and civil rights to copyright holders... I really hate copywrong. The current system is already been broken thanks to Disney, now they are making it worse.

To freely get user IPs and info from the sites themselves?

No way should that be protected. ACLU is gonna be all over their asses on this law, if the corps are allowed to do it without any oversight.


that might be true, but many (corrupt) senators are backing it. Even if the ACLU fights it if it passes, it will be a while before the supreme court hears the case. Meanwhile our rights will be tethered down and raped.



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ssj12 said:
Mr Khan said:
ssj12 said:
Mr Khan said:
ssj12 said:

All I know is that we started a whole lot of crap... things wont be pretty. And we are going to lose more freedoms over it. Like the PROTECT Bill going through congress right now... the internet here is about to become worse than China's.

Oh that stupid bill that allows companies to lobby the justice dept to force ISPs to block direct-download websites as they see fit? It'll be the end of Megaupload, Mediafire, Rapidshare, Depositfile, etc.

VPN workarounds will be made available with blinding speed if that happens, though, especially since the law wouldn't make the act of accessing the sites or their content illegal, just make them nominally impossible to access in the USA.

It also wouldn't be able to stop torrents or other P2P stuff, just sites that host the torrents

Plus something like that would likely be legally fought by the sites themselves who would lose all that American business (since this whole internet regulation thing is very legally shady compared to the first amendment)

Or am i thinking of another law?

No you pretty much hit the nail on the head EXCEPT the corporations, RIAA, and MPAA all would have the ability to get user IPs and info from websites without the DOJ. They will be able to file their own warrants. They only need the DOJ to shut down websites and make ISPs block traffic to a website.

So pretty much the USA will basically be ran by corporations.

All this in the name of freedom of information, privacy, and civil rights to copyright holders... I really hate copywrong. The current system is already been broken thanks to Disney, now they are making it worse.

To freely get user IPs and info from the sites themselves?

No way should that be protected. ACLU is gonna be all over their asses on this law, if the corps are allowed to do it without any oversight.


that might be true, but many (corrupt) senators are backing it. Even if the ACLU fights it if it passes, it will be a while before the supreme court hears the case. Meanwhile our rights will be tethered down and raped.

But the Democratic senators are trying to cast themselves as pro-consumer recently (what with their recent bringing in Oil company CEOs to question them about their abuse of tax loopholes). Hopefully that'll hold out in that case



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So Osama followed all laws when he set up terrorist attacks in Sudan and America?

Wow, he must not have been as bad as I thought.  Insert sarcastic closure here.



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