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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo's Questionable moves, 3DS difficulties

greenmedic88 on 03 April 2011
RolStoppable said:
greenmedic88 said:

That's one thing that will probably never happen any more than we're likely to see games being marketed as "Only on iOS!"

Frankly, I don't think Apple cares one bit about exclusivity so long as developers continue to publish games on their platform, customers keep buying software and Apple keeps getting their 30% of the take.

Generally speaking, exclusives do help sell platforms, but in the case of smartphones, I really can't say I hear about a lot of people buying an Android or iOS compatible device because "they just had to play X game."

The reason for publishing on these platforms is really just a matter of having a large built in potential consumer base that frankly, is kind of foolish for developers to overlook, whether they're garage developers or major publishers. No prestige involved; just tapping a growth market.

Let me see, if I understand this right. Your stance is that the iOS and smartphone market aren't a threat to dedicated gaming handhelds, because none of the major publishers can be bothered to put their best games on phones, much less as exclusives. And since Apple has nothing like first party studios, the possibility of disrupting the core gaming machines is zero.

No. They are a threat because they are canibalizing sales by consumers who once only had the option of playing games on a Nintendo DS or PSP if they wanted to play portable games and didn't want to play terrible ports of old games on their phone.

While the market isn't seeing any major developers lead developing on iOS or Android currently, it's hard to overlook signs like Epic adapting Unreal Engine for iOS, giving developers a powerful set of pre-made tools and resources for creating games on the platform.

It's not going to be long before the major publishers move past the ports of classic games phase in iOS and Android game development.

So never say "zero possibility." Because people can quote you on that.



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greenmedic88 on 03 April 2011
Khuutra said:
greenmedic88 said:
Khuutra said:

You'll need to define a timeframe for the growth, here.

More, I'm not sure an expanding market is really the same thing as a sustainable market, hwich is the only thing the diehard should really be worrying about.

The specifics aren't an issue here. It's widely acknowledged that Android and iOS device growth isn't going to be changing for the worse in the future.

If anyone's predicting some sort of market crash either in the demand for such devices, the services they provide or even the software that's available for them, I haven't been seeing any such stories from reliable sources. 

When you say  "such  devices" in your second paragraph, you are referring to the iOS? I never implied that they would see anything except for growth.

Android smartphones, iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad, maybe Win7 Mobile devices. The first platforms independent developers these days will typically start with. Also to include any major publishers looking to tap both the existing smartphone market and the growth segment.



Khuutra on 03 April 2011
greenmedic88 said:
Khuutra said:

When you say  "such  devices" in your second paragraph, you are referring to the iOS? I never implied that they would see anything except for growth.

Android smartphones, iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad, maybe Win7 Mobile devices. The first platforms independent developers these days will typically start with. Also to include any major publishers looking to tap both the existing smartphone market and the growth segment.

Let me see if I'm following this conversation correctly.

You: There is no indication that there's an expanding market for dedicated handheld gaming devices.

Me: Markets (for dedicated handheld gaming devices specifically) do not need to be "expanding" to be sustainable.

You: Nothing indicates that the general utility mobile device market isn't sustainable.

Have I got the gist of it so far?



Albion on 03 April 2011
greenmedic88 said:
Albion said:
greenmedic88 said:
homer said:
Jumpin said:

Sure there is a place for candy, but they're never going to take the place of a full meal.


You obviously have yet to meet Willy Wonka. Anyways, the only problem I see is if  the raising cost of game development for the "core" consoles is outpacing the growth in userbase.

And that's really the problem.

Opinions will vary, but is there a growing market for $40 portable games, particularly when they aren't all big budget titles (but still cost $40 retail) and there are alternatives for those who don't carry portable game systems but do always have that smartphone on hand?

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but for me to spend $40 on a portable game, either it's something I'm going to be playing for hours like a regular console game, or it will have to offer something pretty unique.



3DS is unique.  It has 3D lol

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-15/tech/lg.optimus.3d_1_google-s-android-smartphone-nintendo-s-3ds?_s=PM:TECH

And the only game I bought for the 3DS was SSFIV and that's only because Amazon gave out a $25 credit for use with one of the initial titles.

None of those initial games were worth $40 to me, and I can say this as someone who really likes the 3D capabilities.



Will the smart phone be gettting Super Mario Worlds in 3D?

If yes Ill think really hard about maybe buying it. >.<

 

The games will come. I know right now the games suck.

Ridge racer is about the only game worth getting. But this is Nintendo and therea 110 games already planed for this year.     So what the big fuss ?



homer on 03 April 2011
RolStoppable said:
homer said:
Jumpin said:

Sure there is a place for candy, but they're never going to take the place of a full meal.

You obviously have yet to meet Willy Wonka. Anyways, the only problem I see is if  the raising cost of game development for the "core" consoles is outpacing the growth in userbase.

I don't think that's going to be a problem. If that were going to happen, then third party publishers would simply adopt their popular Wii/DS vs. HD consoles model: Flood the former with cheaply made games and funnel the profits into projects for the latter. It doesn't look like there's any sort of prestige to gain by being a top developer for iOS, so dedicated game machines will continue to take the spotlight even if they aren't profitable in and of themselves.

Let's hope that I am wrong and you are right.:P



"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." -My good friend Mark Aurelius

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greenmedic88 on 03 April 2011
RolStoppable said:
greenmedic88 said:

No. They are a threat because they are canibalizing sales by consumers who once only had the option of playing games on a Nintendo DS or PSP if they wanted to play portable games and didn't want to play terrible ports of old games on their phone.

While the market isn't seeing any major developers lead developing on iOS or Android currently, it's hard to overlook signs like Epic adapting Unreal Engine for iOS, giving developers a powerful set of pre-made tools and resources for creating games on the platform.

It's not going to be long before the major publishers move past the ports of classic games phase in iOS and Android game development.

So never say "zero possibility." Because people can quote you on that.

That doesn't really sound convincing. People who know enough about handhelds and phones to make an educated decision most likely also know about the current and future limitations of smartphone gaming. While slow games like RPGs work, pretty much everything that requires high precision and fast reflexes is a no-go, hence why people keep saying that at the very least a d-pad and a couple of buttons are required for proper gaming on the go.

I think Square-Enix has already moved past porting, didn't they release an original RPG a few months ago? I forgot how it is called. While things like that are bound to happen, people interested in games of that scope (and bigger) will continue to buy handhelds, simply because there's a greater selection of quality software and exclusive at that. Partly, because not every game will be ported and partly, because not every game can be ported.

The people who are buying into iOS and smartphone gaming now are primarily those who have never seen a reason to own a handheld in the first place. There will of course be people who will stop buying a handheld, because they are satisfied with gaming on their phone alone, but likewise, there will also be people who will buy their first handheld after starting with phones, because they want more.

In the end, smartphones and handhelds are not a case of seesaw, where one side goes down when the other goes up and vice versa, but two separate co-existing markets similar to PCs and home consoles. The record growth of iOS in the last two years hasn't put a dent into the DS software market, so unless you can prove otherwise, there is no reason to believe that these two things are in direct competition with each other.

We'll just have to wait and see. This isn't a contest to see who can come up with the most convincing argument. It's just an issue of where one sees the portable gaming market moving towards.

I don't see big growth potential in dedicated gaming devices, not that this doesn't mean there isn't a huge userbase currently in place.

The question is what percentage of those mobile gamers are going to be playing most of their games on a Nintendo or Sony handheld in the next couple of years and just as importantly, what percentage of those will have migrated to the 3DS or the NGP.

And the reason why iOS growth hasn't had an effect on the DS software market is simply because it's evolving so quickly that what was available even just a year back doesn't reflect what's available today or what's currently in development.

Of course there's still a big market for dedicated portable platform games otherwise developers wouldn't have been so excited over the prospect of developing for the 3DS and NGP. It would probably be just as much of a missed opportunity to skip developing a next gen 3DS or NGP title as it would be to completely ignore iOS and Android as a publishing platform.

 



greenmedic88 on 03 April 2011
Albion said:
greenmedic88 said:
Albion said:
greenmedic88 said:
homer said:
Jumpin said:

Sure there is a place for candy, but they're never going to take the place of a full meal.


You obviously have yet to meet Willy Wonka. Anyways, the only problem I see is if  the raising cost of game development for the "core" consoles is outpacing the growth in userbase.

And that's really the problem.

Opinions will vary, but is there a growing market for $40 portable games, particularly when they aren't all big budget titles (but still cost $40 retail) and there are alternatives for those who don't carry portable game systems but do always have that smartphone on hand?

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but for me to spend $40 on a portable game, either it's something I'm going to be playing for hours like a regular console game, or it will have to offer something pretty unique.



3DS is unique.  It has 3D lol

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-15/tech/lg.optimus.3d_1_google-s-android-smartphone-nintendo-s-3ds?_s=PM:TECH

And the only game I bought for the 3DS was SSFIV and that's only because Amazon gave out a $25 credit for use with one of the initial titles.

None of those initial games were worth $40 to me, and I can say this as someone who really likes the 3D capabilities.



Will the smart phone be gettting Super Mario Worlds in 3D?

If yes Ill think really hard about maybe buying it. >.<

 

The games will come. I know right now the games suck.

Ridge racer is about the only game worth getting. But this is Nintendo and therea 110 games already planed for this year.     So what the big fuss ?

Nintendo will always have a built in consumer base for their own in house developed games.

That will never go away unless they somehow manage to do a repeat of Sega, which took an entire series of less than successful platforms to drop them out of the hardware/platform business (Sega CD, 32X, Saturn with the final nail in the coffin being the Dreamcast, killed prematurely only due to the success of the PS2).

But Nintendo published games aren't the most important niche of games to anyone who isn't a devoted Nintendo fan, so it's a bit of a non-issue to anyone who isn't.

Anyone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think anyone buys any non-Nintendo hardware with the idea in mind that they're going to be playing Mario World, Mario Kart or Pokemon on it.

Personally, I don't care much for the portable versions of Nintendo's mainstay IPs. All of the games on the 3DS that have been announced so far that I plan to buy are 3rd party. I can always hope for another Advance Wars by Nintendo, but I didn't exactly buy a 3DS to play games that haven't even been announced yet.



Metallicube on 03 April 2011
greenmedic88 said:
Metallicube said:
 

The problem with that logic is that I don't think most of these people you speak of exist. People who are serious enough about gaming WILL buy an actual handheld gaming console. Those who aren't wouldn't have bought one anyway. It's as simple as that. These micro games found on the Iphone are not going to be enough to deter a serious gamer from playing Mario, DQ, FF, Monster Hunter, Layton, etc, on the handheld consoles.

Also, cell phone games have been around for what, a decade if not longer, yet haven't harmed handheld consoles. So I don't see why the iphone would suddenly change that.

You do realize that the Final Fantasy franchise has been ported over to iOS (I'm guessing it's on Android as well) and Square Enix is continuing to port more titles. Final Fantasy iii was just released last month and the port has received excellent ratings, just like FFI and FF2 before it.

That was just one example, but it's not like this is some sort of isolated instance. Epic ported Unreal Engine 3 to iOS and it doesn't take a great deal of foresight to see where that's leading for handheld developers. All the major publishers are either on board or behind the power curve if they aren't.

The advent of portable gaming on smartphone platforms that are now capable of going beyond Tetris, Pac-Man, etc. is a simple case of market disruption. The tools exist to develop "serious" games once only playable on dedicated gaming devices. So it actually is a sudden change in the market even if it doesn't mean the market for dedicated handheld game consoles is now gone.

There are plenty of "serious" games on mobile platforms, but one of the key differences between these and dedicated portable game systems is that consumers generally don't buy their phones based upon the games. It's arguable that Apple has sold quite a few iPod Touches to those were were just as interested in portable gaming as they were in portable music/video, but the biggest growth is still in the smartphone market.

I'm sorry, but people buy a smartphone because they want a PHONE, not a portable gaming console. They buy an ipod because they want a music player. NOBODY, I repeat, NOBODY buys a smartphone for the primary purpose of playing games.

People who want a GAMING console will buy a GAMING portable. Nothing will convince me otherwise. This is common sense here..

Case in point: Apple is not competition to Nintendo, whatsoever. Period.



Albion on 03 April 2011
RolStoppable said:
greenmedic88 said:

We'll just have to wait and see. This isn't a contest to see who can come up with the most convincing argument. It's just an issue of where one sees the portable gaming market moving towards.

I don't see big growth potential in dedicated gaming devices, not that this doesn't mean there isn't a huge userbase currently in place.

The question is what percentage of those mobile gamers are going to be playing most of their games on a Nintendo or Sony handheld in the next couple of years and just as importantly, what percentage of those will have migrated to the 3DS or the NGP.

And the reason why iOS growth hasn't had an effect on the DS software market is simply because it's evolving so quickly that what was available even just a year back doesn't reflect what's available today or what's currently in development.

Of course there's still a big market for dedicated portable platform games otherwise developers wouldn't have been so excited over the prospect of developing for the 3DS and NGP. It would probably be just as much of a missed opportunity to skip developing a next gen 3DS or NGP title as it would be to completely ignore iOS and Android as a publishing platform.

When I said software market, I was refering to revenue numbers. While iOS has seen explosive growth in the last two years, DS software revenue remained stagnant. That might sound negative at first, but a video game system usually sees decline in its fifth and sixth year on the market. So with iOS experiencing such large growth with no clear visible impact on DS software sales, it suggests that we are looking at two separate markets that can perfectly co-exist with each other in the coming years.

Yes They Can .  

 

 Untill one decides Other wise , and go's after the others  market.



robzo100 on 03 April 2011
Metallicube said:I'm sorry, but people buy a smartphone because they want a PHONE, not a portable gaming console. They buy an ipod because they want a music player. NOBODY, I repeat, NOBODY buys a smartphone for the primary purpose of playing games.

People who want a GAMING console will buy a GAMING portable. Nothing will convince me otherwise. This is common sense here..

Case in point: Apple is not competition to Nintendo, whatsoever. Period.


Consumers' tastes change.  That is common sense.  I think what is clear is that there is a big paradigm shift going on in terms of dedicated devices being overrun by do-it-all devices (smartphones).  That should be clear as day by now, and Apple is the forerunner.

Society's tastes change overtime because of drastic changes like these.  If everybody already has a phone, and it is capable of playing some sort of game, consumers may start to ask themselves why they feel the need to spend 200-300 dollars on hardware, plus 40 dollars on additional software.  Not everybody who owns a Nintendo, Sony, or MS console is hardcore enough to retain their taste in a particular hobby down the long haul.  They eventually settle for less, especially when it's convienent.