By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - PC - 12 Ways Consoles Are Hurting PC Gaming

cory.ok said:
Zkuq said:
zarx said:

pah they didn't make Dragon age 2 for the "console" crowd they made it for the CoD crowd. They even came out and said that they were making an RPG that people that think they can't play RPGs because they are to complex.

I always felt the made it for the Mass Effect crowd.

cory.ok said:

1. there was also a mention of bad ports to computers, from my presopective computer gamers should be thanking the consoles for those ports, without the huge instal base of consoles there wouldnt be enough money to go around for the developers, meaning no game at all in many cases.

2. and one last point about dedicated servers, if a game doesnt get a dedicated server its not because of a console (console games can have dedicated servers too!) but rather a buisness decision, just a way to cut the cost of upkeep.

1. Without consoles, we'd be pretty close to having only PC gaming. Obviously in such case, PC games would sell a lot better and maybe we'd actually get content instead of all money spent on graphics and such.

2. PC game servers are typically paid for by gamers, not publishers, meaning it's not that different for the publisher whether they use dedicated servers or p2p.

1. even if there was only pc gaming, the barrier to entry for pc gaming is much higher, not everyone who buys a console would buy a gaming computer.

2. i cant think of any games where the playerbase, rather than a develop or publisher, supplies dedicated servers that are used, could you help me out?

1. The thing is, there are lots of gamers and should there be no choice, PC would be much bigger. I never said everyone would switch to PC gaming. Also, while everyone remembers to say how expensive gaming PCs are, they often forget how much of it is more than they would have paid for the PC they would need anyway (ie. a 'normal' PC costs $500 and a 'gaming' PC costs $800, thus the user actually pays 'only' $300 for the gaming feature).

2. OK, this is pretty gray area. I'm not exactly sure about the motives of having all those random servers for games but somehow all of them hosted by the publisher is a pretty ridiculous idea. Anyway, see Counter-Strike for example, I believe most servers are user-paid. Please correct me if I'm wrong, it's entirely possible that I'm under the wrong impression.



Around the Network
Acevil said:
vlad321 said:
oniyide said:

@squlliam  couldnt agree more, they spend all this money on super high end PCs and expect the companies to pump out eye blasting visual games, not realizing they are in the super minority. 

@vlad321  maybe, just maybe most console gamers dont give a crap about mods. if they did they would game on PCs. 


So you are telling me consumers DON'T want free content that prolongs their enjoyment of the product they paid money for? I think that falls under the realm of stupidity.

I think the problem might be, no one thinks it is possible on the console, without them putting in simplified editors that really don't do much...plus space restrictions caused by the 360. 

Personally I think one thing that is really annoying, and I totally agree with, is dumb downed stuff, this is something that wasn't really existance in past generations on consoles (much), but for some reason this generation is all about making everything so goddamnit simple. 

They had a level editor in Time Splitters 2 for GCN.  I don't really play too many FPS on HD consoles so I have no idea if any of them have level editors.  It seemed like editors were going to be common on FPS when I saw Time Splitters having one last generation.  Are there any console FPS this generation that have level editors?  I know a few games that have level editors for console games but there aren't many.  I played Civ 3 (PC) a very long time because of the bad ass user made maps/scenarios on civfanatic website.   These users created such detailed scenarios (that were pretty well balanced too, improved graphics from graphics packs, more time specific units, etc) that they were usually better than the 7-8 scenarios that they included in the Conquest expansion pack.




Ugh, did you really have to reply, now I feel obliged to reply back and I can't be bothered. I'll just say that the industry is how it is because it was shaped that way by the consumer base. If the PC as a gaming platform was strong enough to support dozens major projects a year, then the publishers would have jumped on to that band wagon and would have put much more time and effort into the platform. 

1. You cannot argue that the PC hasn't got an issue with piracy, maybe the consoles have as well, but it is no way as frequent or widespread as PC piracy. Publishers aren't going to lie you about this, they haven't got a reason to, they love money way to much to just ditch a platform on a whim.

PC gamers are just as bad as console gamers when it comes to lording it over one another, the article was making it out to be something that was exclusive to consoles.

No, the PC gaming community would be significantly smaller or dead, people aren't paying all this money to upgrade their rigs every few years, just so they can play Machinarium. They do it so that they can get the best performance they can out of mult-platform titles and exclusive PC titles (which are developed by publishers who have a hand in console development). If the PC was the only platform, then the majority of these titles wouldn't be released at all and systems like Steam wouldn't even be able to exist.

Digital sales can be anything, you and I don't know how much they are selling. The difference is that when EA come out and say that BBC2 or Dragon Age sells 5 million units and we have PS3 at 2.25 and 360 at 2.25, then that can only mean that the PC has sold the least amount of copies and by a significant amount.  

The Kinects competition only depends on it's audience and the audience that is willing to spend $150 on a webcam is probably extremely small on the PC. The Kinect is what it is because of the expanded console market that the Wii has created, it's a market that isn't on the PC (unless we're counting Facebook games) and so I highly doubt it would have sold anywhere near what it has sold on the 360. it would have flopped, been hacked a few times and it would have been forgotten like so many other cool PC peripherals that have popped up over the years.

Like I said, auto-saving isn't a console trend, it was originally a PC gaming trend. Putting the blame on consoles is lying.

PC gamers are harsher, they have a sense of entitlement that is unwarranted. Publishers know what they are doing and like you said, you have the right to choose to buy it or not. But railing on said company for half a year, spamming metacritic user scores and hacking into their sites and exposing their DRM is a sign of immaturity and not the sign of a trusting or good audience. If Valve does a million good things and then makes one mistake, they'd get lashed for it, despite all the good things they've done for PC gaming.

You've shown your PC elitist attitude once again. Your platform is not better, your games are not better, your ideals are not better, it is all but a matter of opinion.

I'd like to make $27 off of a $60 instead of $4.20 of a $5 game. That console game would also probably sell much more.

I'm not complaining, I'm giving examples. I've also spent over a thousand dollars on my PC (Australia) and I play games on it from time to time, it just isn't my preference. You also ignored the fact that the PC does have a direct effect on console games, which is something the article is complaning about in reference to PC games.

 

Something, something, something your a PC defender. It's all jumbled up because I decided to add things at the wrong times, so I guess you can make a puzzle out of it and match them to the points you made. It'll be fun. You could also ignore me, I don't really mind.



Bet with Conegamer and AussieGecko that the PS3 will have more exclusives in 2011 than the Wii or 360... or something.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3879752

I read that article yesterday, and it is, of course, completely wrong. He shouldn't have used the present tense, since the past one would have been far more appropriate.

He should also look at a far more worrying aspect of the decline and fall of PC gaming: the lack of genres. I remember that, back in the PSX days, most major console games would get a PC port. Sometimes, these ports were terrible (see FF7; thankfully, its fanbase have turned it into something wonderful), but that wasn't always the case. Nowadays, it's extremely rare to see anything other than FPS/RTS, MMOs and Simx getting released on the PC. It happens (see GTA, and the surprising release of SF4 on PC), but it's rare.

Frankly, this baffles me. There are obvious advantages to playing genres like FPS and RTS on a PC, but I can't for the life of me think why there are advantages to playing Action Adventure, platformers or JRPGs on a console (certainly, there were successful PC games from those first two genres in the days of yore). PCs can do anything that consoles can do, so I should say that the lack of diversity amongst PC games is the greatest casualty in its war with consoles.

The solution to this problem is hard to work out, but it would certainly help if people were to always buy the PC version of a game, provided that the port is adequate, especially when it's not from one of the more common PC genres. I know that I always go with the PC version when I can. In an ideal world, there would be just PC gaming; now that we all have PCs, consoles no longer have a reason to exist, besides lining the pockets of Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft and giving thirteen-year-olds with anger management problems something to argue about.

fps_d0minat0r said:

so the bottom line is because console gamers pay for their games, they get more attention than the typical pirates PC.

fair enough dont you think?

Yes, from the point of the major devs, it's fair enough. They're big companies and doing what big companies do best. Their only aim is to make money, after all. 

However, it's rather irritating to see people continually reward this behaviour. Companies can only get away with limiting our experience by releasing games only on proprietary platforms that limit modding and encourage exclusives (now, we have to buy two consoles, or three, just to play the games we want), as long as customers make it profitable. Unfortunately, customers are doing just that. It makes your blood boil, doesn't it? People enable behaviour that damages us all. Except the big devs, of course.

Note that I say big devs; smaller companies benefit massively from the freedom that PCs allow. Just look at Mincraft. And look at the thriving indie scene in Japan (might wanna get out the box of Kleenex when you play some of those). There's no way that these niche genres could survive on a console.

i mean if you ran a game devloping company would you care about a market segment where 1m people will buy your product and enjoy it or a segment where only 100k will and your game will be over-run by hacks/cheats and millions of pirates?

It is of course true that piracy is a bigger problem for PC games, but you should ask yourself "why?". Is it because PC gamers are naturally thievish? Or is it because nearly all PC gamers (with the exception of some uber casuals playing social games) know how to pirate for their platform, whereas a smaller proportion of console gamers, on the consoles where piracy is feasible, have such knowledge? Successful piracy doesn't require a high level of tech-savviness, but it does require some. So does PC gaming. Console gaming does not, since all you have to do is connect the wires and put the disk in; it "just werks".

Now, before everyone affirms the consequent and starts crying, I'm not saying that all console gamers are too baka to download a torrent that isn't a virus or a Rickroll and burn it onto a disk, but I'm sure that most people who are unable to pirate are the kinds of people who were put off PC gaming because Crysis wouldn't work on their mother's OEM PC with a P4 and integrated graphics. Or on their Mac.

i dont understant the logic behind why pc versions should be better when they dont bring in a fraction of money the consoles do.

It's the same logic that says that a PS3 game should be better than a DS game, even though the latter might bring in more money. In fact, it's more than that, because the advantages with PCs are not merely based on superior hardware, but also on the relative openness of the platform.





Doobie_wop said:

1. You cannot argue that the PC hasn't got an issue with piracy, maybe the consoles have as well, but it is no way as frequent or widespread as PC piracy. Publishers aren't going to lie you about this, they haven't got a reason to, they love money way to much to just ditch a platform on a whim.

True, the piracy issue is more significant on PC but I think publishers do actually have a reason to lie about it. The reason is used game market. It's a lot easier to limit the customer's freedom and rights when you have piracy to blame. If they didn't have piracy, they'd either have no reason or they'd have to directly blame used games... Which I don't think would look too good, and I'm not sure it would even be legal.

--

Digital sales can be anything, you and I don't know how much they are selling. The difference is that when EA come out and say that BBC2 or Dragon Age sells 5 million units and we have PS3 at 2.25 and 360 at 2.25, then that can only mean that the PC has sold the least amount of copies and by a significant amount.

The funny thing about this example is that the stats site for BFBC2 has actually shown more players for the PC version than any of the console versions. I'm too lazy to check the situation right now but I'm guessing there won't be huge differences. Anyway, might explain why BF3 has PC as the lead platform. Also shows that when there's games that interest PC gamers, they're willing to pay for them.

--

Like I said, auto-saving isn't a console trend, it was originally a PC gaming trend. Putting the blame on consoles is lying.

Well, I'm not sure about the point of the article but I'm guessing that what they meant is that auto-save is replacing the ability to save manually. However, despite it being technologically possible it's more rare than common on consoles and I guess you see the big picture after that statement.

I edited my answer in the quote.



Around the Network
Zkuq said:

1. The thing is, there are lots of gamers and should there be no choice, PC would be much bigger. I never said everyone would switch to PC gaming. Also, while everyone remembers to say how expensive gaming PCs are, they often forget how much of it is more than they would have paid for the PC they would need anyway (ie. a 'normal' PC costs $500 and a 'gaming' PC costs $800, thus the user actually pays 'only' $300 for the gaming feature).

2. OK, this is pretty gray area. I'm not exactly sure about the motives of having all those random servers for games but somehow all of them hosted by the publisher is a pretty ridiculous idea. Anyway, see Counter-Strike for example, I believe most servers are user-paid. Please correct me if I'm wrong, it's entirely possible that I'm under the wrong impression.


http://www.gameservers.com/game_servers/

Easy google for game server rental.  Best thing about having dedicated player-hosted servers is the game will never die and you can run mods on them if you want.  Can you still play Halo 2?  Also, the server is a home for your community/clan, you can run it with your rules, maplist, whatever.

Mods are important, a lot of times they fill in the holes the devs left behind.  Almost all CS servers have some kind of admin mod, some servers have extra anti-cheats like global ban lists, some servers have pro-mods for things like hitsounds, warmup, and demo recording/playback.  A lot of good game ideas are prototyped by mod teams only to get stolen by lazy console devs and sold as something new and innovative.



MrBubbles said:

sounds like pc gamers should be happy just to get any games at all with the amount of whining, piracy, arrogance and cheating online


Fixed for ya



youarebadatgames said:
Zkuq said:

1. The thing is, there are lots of gamers and should there be no choice, PC would be much bigger. I never said everyone would switch to PC gaming. Also, while everyone remembers to say how expensive gaming PCs are, they often forget how much of it is more than they would have paid for the PC they would need anyway (ie. a 'normal' PC costs $500 and a 'gaming' PC costs $800, thus the user actually pays 'only' $300 for the gaming feature).

2. OK, this is pretty gray area. I'm not exactly sure about the motives of having all those random servers for games but somehow all of them hosted by the publisher is a pretty ridiculous idea. Anyway, see Counter-Strike for example, I believe most servers are user-paid. Please correct me if I'm wrong, it's entirely possible that I'm under the wrong impression.


http://www.gameservers.com/game_servers/

Easy google for game server rental.  Best thing about having dedicated player-hosted servers is the game will never die and you can run mods on them if you want.  Can you still play Halo 2?  Also, the server is a home for your community/clan, you can run it with your rules, maplist, whatever.

Mods are important, a lot of times they fill in the holes the devs left behind.  Almost all CS servers have some kind of admin mod, some servers have extra anti-cheats like global ban lists, some servers have pro-mods for things like hitsounds, warmup, and demo recording/playback.  A lot of good game ideas are prototyped by mod teams only to get stolen by lazy console devs and sold as something new and innovative.

Sure with XLink Kai



vlad321 said:
MrBubbles said:

sounds like pc gamers should be happy just to get any games at all with the amount of whining. 


Or you know, conole owners coudl wisen up and demand features that are lacking in their games, like mods, like good customers, not rewarding companies by bending over for them.


Nah, I dont need a 12 year old riding my ass with his ''rules'' and pretending to be 2nd Jesus on the server otherwise I#ll get banned. Lets pray to God that a community like the one on CS never hits PSN or Xbox live



pizzahut451 said:
vlad321 said:
MrBubbles said:

sounds like pc gamers should be happy just to get any games at all with the amount of whining. 


Or you know, conole owners coudl wisen up and demand features that are lacking in their games, like mods, like good customers, not rewarding companies by bending over for them.


Nah, I dont need a 12 year old riding my ass with his ''rules'' and pretending to be 2nd Jesus on the server otherwise I#ll get banned. Lets pray to God that a community like the one on CS never hits PSN or Xbox live


apparently you have no idea how mods work at all.



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453