MikeB said: GooseGaws said: What's so innovative about Lair? Take Rogue Squadron, replace the Star Wars ships with dragons, replace the analog control with motion control, juice up the graphics, and you have Lair. Even the menu design and medal system are exactly the same.  The two most innovative aspects of this game are overall good motion sensing control and PSP remote-play. Halo 3 offers 0% innovation, innovation isn't required to make an excellent game though, just think the term shouldn't be used in the same sentence as Halo 3. I haven't played Rogue Squadron, but to me it looks like a very very different style of game, in fact I know no game really being similar to Lair.

So the two most innovative aspects are control that has been roundly criticized by the gaming press and players alike, and a feature that requires an additional console to take advantage of?  That's hardly impressive, considering a number of Wii games contain superior motion control.

 

If you were to play the Rogue Squadron series, you would understand that Lair IS Rogue Squadron 4, just with dragons instead of the Star Wars universe.  There's no mistaking it as a Factor 5 flight game and the successor to that series.  And I love the Rogue Squadron series (for the most part), but Lair falls far short of those games.

Sorair said: The game looks absolutely gorgeous! I'm currently checking out gameplay videos on Youtube and Gametrailers and it looks awesome. Its just that the controls are flawed as many comments on both sites posted. Does anyone on this site actually own the game or has played the game?

Lair is a 8.5 to 9/10 game. If it was on the Wii it would have gotten 9 to 9.5/10 scores with Wii owners making claims about the 'innovative' controls and 'I can never play another flying game again after Lair's controls'. If it was on the 360 it would have gotten 9 to 9.5/10 scores with 360 owners talking about the amazing graphics that prove how powerful the 360 is and claims of 'I don't see any screen tearing' or 'I didn't notice any framerate problems' Hopefully as Lair drops in price over time and PS3 owners pick up the game it will be harsh lesson in what a revolting mess game 'reviews' are. The only hesitation there should be on picking up Lair, other than it the type of game that interests you, is if you don't have a 1080p set yet. But for people with a 1080p Lair is absolutely stunning - the scale, the amount of stuff going on all around is unlike anything seen before in a game. Lair as a complete package is one of the best next gen games there is right now: * The score for the game is Hollywood movie quality * It has a large range of content to unlock as you play through the game and replay mission for better scores * The Concert Hall extra section is wonderfully implemented and hopefully more next games will copy Lair's implementation Lairs controls are simple and effective. You tilt your controller left, the dragon turns left. You tilt your controller right the dragon turns right. You tilt your controller back, the dragon climbs. You tilt your controller down the dragon decends. There is a snap forward that does a quick dash, and a flick upward that does a 180. That's it. The game is designed around mission being played multiple times where you have the feeling of being in a gigantic battle with insane amounts of stuff going on. The problem with threads about Lair is you end up with 90-95 percent responses from people who want to get in on an opportunity to run their mouths off. The game is a perfect intersection of hate for both 360 and Wii owners because: * You have a 1080p graphically intense game that is running an that could never possibly run on the 360's graphics hardware * You then have 4+ gig level sizes for the huge worlds in Lair that could never fit on a the smaller than last gen 360 7gig per disc storage format * And finally you have motion controls to bring out the Wii fans

Packet said: [stuff]

Nice fanboy rant. However, I own all three consoles, and I don't base my enjoyment of a game on the machine in which the disc is read, but rather on how much fun it is to play.  Once you get a handle on the controls and look past the pretty graphics (though 1080p is not recommended due to framerate issues), this game is no fun at all to play.  Again, this is coming from a person who loved the Rogue Squadron games, from which the mission structures in this game are lifted almost exactly.  In fact, the wasted potential the game displays makes it all the more disappointing.  I have long been a fan of Factor 5, from their work on the SNES forward, but this game is just a botch, plain and simple.

@ GooseGaws

Why? That's the native rendering resolution! If you play it only anthing less this will be scaled down by the PS3's or HDTV's scaler, but the game itself is still rendering in 1080p, so that doesn't make much sense.

Have you truly played this game?

GooseGaws said: Packet said: [stuff] Nice fanboy rant. However, I own all three consoles, and I don't base my enjoyment of a game on the machine in which the disc is read, but rather on how much fun it is to play. Once you get a handle on the controls and look past the pretty graphics (though 1080p is not recommended due to framerate issues), this game is no fun at all to play. Again, this is coming from a person who loved the Rogue Squadron games, from which the mission structures in this game are lifted almost exactly. In fact, the wasted potential the game displays makes it all the more disappointing. I have long been a fan of Factor 5, from their work on the SNES forward, but this game is just a botch, plain and simple.

Do everyone a favor and go away.

MikeB said: @ GooseGaws though 1080p is not recommended due to framerate issues Why? That's the native rendering resolution! If you play it only anthing less this will be scaled down by the PS3's or HDTV's scaler, but the game itself is still rendering in 1080p, so that doesn't make much sense. Have you truly played this game?

I only played it in 1080p and later read several accounts that the framerate was smoother on lower resolutions.  I didn't get a chance to test this myself, but the framerate issues were certainly noticeable at 1080p.

Packet said: GooseGaws said: Packet said: [stuff] Nice fanboy rant. However, I own all three consoles, and I don't base my enjoyment of a game on the machine in which the disc is read, but rather on how much fun it is to play. Once you get a handle on the controls and look past the pretty graphics (though 1080p is not recommended due to framerate issues), this game is no fun at all to play. Again, this is coming from a person who loved the Rogue Squadron games, from which the mission structures in this game are lifted almost exactly. In fact, the wasted potential the game displays makes it all the more disappointing. I have long been a fan of Factor 5, from their work on the SNES forward, but this game is just a botch, plain and simple.   Do everyone a favor and go away.

 

That's what I like to see, a good, well-constructed rebuttal. Well played.

Packet said: Sorair said: The game looks absolutely gorgeous! I'm currently checking out gameplay videos on Youtube and Gametrailers and it looks awesome. Its just that the controls are flawed as many comments on both sites posted. Does anyone on this site actually own the game or has played the game?   Lair is a 8.5 to 9/10 game. If it was on the Wii it would have gotten 9 to 9.5/10 scores with Wii owners making claims about the 'innovative' controls and 'I can never play another flying game again after Lair's controls'. If it was on the 360 it would have gotten 9 to 9.5/10 scores with 360 owners talking about the amazing graphics that prove how powerful the 360 is and claims of 'I don't see any screen tearing' or 'I didn't notice any framerate problems' Hopefully as Lair drops in price over time and PS3 owners pick up the game it will be harsh lesson in what a revolting mess game 'reviews' are. The only hesitation there should be on picking up Lair, other than it the type of game that interests you, is if you don't have a 1080p set yet. But for people with a 1080p Lair is absolutely stunning - the scale, the amount of stuff going on all around is unlike anything seen before in a game. Lair as a complete package is one of the best next gen games there is right now: * The score for the game is Hollywood movie quality * It has a large range of content to unlock as you play through the game and replay mission for better scores * The Concert Hall extra section is wonderfully implemented and hopefully more next games will copy Lair's implementation Lairs controls are simple and effective. You tilt your controller left, the dragon turns left. You tilt your controller right the dragon turns right. You tilt your controller back, the dragon climbs. You tilt your controller down the dragon decends. There is a snap forward that does a quick dash, and a flick upward that does a 180. That's it. The game is designed around mission being played multiple times where you have the feeling of being in a gigantic battle with insane amounts of stuff going on. The problem with threads about Lair is you end up with 90-95 percent responses from people who want to get in on an opportunity to run their mouths off. The game is a perfect intersection of hate for both 360 and Wii owners because: * You have a 1080p graphically intense game that is running an that could never possibly run on the 360's graphics hardware * You then have 4+ gig level sizes for the huge worlds in Lair that could never fit on a the smaller than last gen 360 7gig per disc storage format * And finally you have motion controls to bring out the Wii fans

 I 100% agree with this post. Buy or atleast rent lair, if you don't have a HDTV screen over 32" and a home theater don't even try.

endurance said: MikeB said: GooseGaws said: What's so innovative about Lair? Take Rogue Squadron, replace the Star Wars ships with dragons, replace the analog control with motion control, juice up the graphics, and you have Lair. Even the menu design and medal system are exactly the same.   The two most innovative aspects of this game are overall good motion sensing control and PSP remote-play. Halo 3 offers 0% innovation, innovation isn't required to make an excellent game though, just think the term shouldn't be used in the same sentence as Halo 3. I haven't played Rogue Squadron, but to me it looks like a very very different style of game, in fact I know no game really being similar to Lair. panzer dragoon might be similar to it except it doesnt have its problems

Don't know but looks like a very different gameplay style / feel:

Panzer dragoon:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5Sl7PiM_AuA

Lair:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9Fc_Cp_aA8&NR=1

Other than riding a dragon like we have seen in many past games... Rogue Squadron III IMO seems very different as well:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mph0QnTQLNE

Panzer Dragoon is a rail-shooter and isn't really similar to Lair.

Anyone who has played the Rogue Squadron series will immediately notice the similarities, right down to the way the "Rage Vision" (targeting computer) functions.