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reviniente on 16 March 2011
Michael-5 said:

The problem is Sony needs to advertize their games better. Uncharted is about as good as Gears of War, but Gears of War 1 instantly took off because of amazing advertizing, an adictive online component, and it was really good, from the start. Uncharted 1 is nowhere nearly as good as Uncharted 2, and I think the main reason for it selling above 3 million is because Uncharted 2 was so well received.

Also I wouldn't say GT5, LBP, or Uncharted sales are too bad. Uncharted could have been higher, GT5 is looking to hit 9 million (which in terms of HD exclusives is only overshadowed by Halo), and LBP 2 looks to be a 4-5 million selling game like LBP1. MGS4 is also about as big as Forza 3.

LBP is slightly bigger then Fable, GT is somewhat smaller then Halo, and Uncharted is smaller then Gears, so considering the PS3 is slightly smaller then 360, thats not too bad. Then Sony gas the one hit MGS4, and then gets a bunch of well rated 2-3 million sellers like Killzone and InFamous.

PS3 games just need better marketing, and I think the main reason why Sony doesn't market as big as MS is because for a long time they weren't making any profit of their console, and didn't want to push themselves further into the red. MS can do this cause they have deeper pockets, and they know it will likely pay off.

80% of their upcoming line-up are sequels, but it's a safe investment for Sony, and for so many years being in the red, I think Sony want to play it safe. They even publically stated that it's more important to remain profitable then to beat MS. If they were smart, they would still advertize the hell out of Uncharted, cause it's their biggest 2011 title, and has credit as a game on the mass market.

Also this late into the generation, and 80% of everyones games are sequels. Nintendo has Zelda and Pikmin, MS has Forza, Gears, and maybe Halo, and Sony has Uncharted, Resistance, and InFamous. Sure Kinect has some interesting new IP's, but Sony has some old franchise re-introductions (Twisted Metal, The Last Guardian).

The bigger multiplatform games are also mostly sequels. Mass Effect 3, CoD, Assassin's Creed 3, Dead Space 2, Batman, Crysis, Portal, Dues Ex, Duke Nukem, etc. The only real exceptions are L.A. Noire, and MGS Rising.

More exceptions (Xbox360 and|or multi-platform):

Anarchy Reigns
Brink
Catherine
Child of Eden
Codename: Kingdoms
Dead Island
Gun Loco
Hunted: The Demon's Forge
Inversion
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning
NeverDead
Rage
Shadows of the Damned
The Cursed Crusade
The First Templar
Warriors: Legends of Troy
XCOM

And pretty much anything for Kinect.



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Michael-5 on 16 March 2011
CGI-Quality said:

For (people) that debated with me:

Looks like GT5 did 520k more than GT4 in the first 10 weeks (doing nearly 1 million more in EMEAA)!  It had also passed it by the 4th week in total WW sales. But I guess I still need to relax.

Yea, but after 10 weeks that lead started to deminish. Remember GT5 got the benefit of having it's first 5 weeks of sales during the 5 biggest sellings weeks of the year. Even January sales are a time of high sales. The ratio between GT5 and GT4 is less then 70% now, and except for the week Killzone 3 launched, it's been dropping. If GT5 stabilizes at this level, or lower, it will not break 10 million. That is without bundles.



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Michael-5 on 16 March 2011
reviniente said:
Michael-5 said:

The problem is Sony needs to advertize their games better. Uncharted is about as good as Gears of War, but Gears of War 1 instantly took off because of amazing advertizing, an adictive online component, and it was really good, from the start. Uncharted 1 is nowhere nearly as good as Uncharted 2, and I think the main reason for it selling above 3 million is because Uncharted 2 was so well received.

Also I wouldn't say GT5, LBP, or Uncharted sales are too bad. Uncharted could have been higher, GT5 is looking to hit 9 million (which in terms of HD exclusives is only overshadowed by Halo), and LBP 2 looks to be a 4-5 million selling game like LBP1. MGS4 is also about as big as Forza 3.

LBP is slightly bigger then Fable, GT is somewhat smaller then Halo, and Uncharted is smaller then Gears, so considering the PS3 is slightly smaller then 360, thats not too bad. Then Sony gas the one hit MGS4, and then gets a bunch of well rated 2-3 million sellers like Killzone and InFamous.

PS3 games just need better marketing, and I think the main reason why Sony doesn't market as big as MS is because for a long time they weren't making any profit of their console, and didn't want to push themselves further into the red. MS can do this cause they have deeper pockets, and they know it will likely pay off.

80% of their upcoming line-up are sequels, but it's a safe investment for Sony, and for so many years being in the red, I think Sony want to play it safe. They even publically stated that it's more important to remain profitable then to beat MS. If they were smart, they would still advertize the hell out of Uncharted, cause it's their biggest 2011 title, and has credit as a game on the mass market.

Also this late into the generation, and 80% of everyones games are sequels. Nintendo has Zelda and Pikmin, MS has Forza, Gears, and maybe Halo, and Sony has Uncharted, Resistance, and InFamous. Sure Kinect has some interesting new IP's, but Sony has some old franchise re-introductions (Twisted Metal, The Last Guardian).

The bigger multiplatform games are also mostly sequels. Mass Effect 3, CoD, Assassin's Creed 3, Dead Space 2, Batman, Crysis, Portal, Dues Ex, Duke Nukem, etc. The only real exceptions are L.A. Noire, and MGS Rising.

More exceptions (Xbox360 and|or multi-platform):

Anarchy Reigns
Brink
Catherine
Child of Eden
Codename: Kingdoms
Dead Island
Gun Loco
Hunted: The Demon's Forge
Inversion
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning
NeverDead
Rage
Shadows of the Damned
The Cursed Crusade
The First Templar
Warriors: Legends of Troy
XCOM

And pretty much anything for Kinect.

I crossed out everything I never heard of. Brink is a game by Bethesda, they make new IP's every could years. Catherine is a niche game, WW sales combined will be sub 1 million. XCOM is a franchise reboot I believe, Child of Eden is a Kinect game, Gun Loco is also niche, and well the other 3 are valid exceptions.

However I did say among others, and I do want to point out that Dead Island has been in development since 2007.

Still ontop of the sequels I mentioned for multiplatformers there is still Uncharted 3, Resistance 3, KZ3 (past), LBP2 (past), The Last Guardian, Twisted Metal, Ratchet & Clank, Forza 4, Gears 3, Driver, Mech Warrior, Alan Wake 2, Dance Central 2, Dragon Age 2, and even fir Kinect, Stell Batallion and Project Dragon (likely a Panzer Dragoon spinoff).



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reviniente on 17 March 2011
CGI-Quality said:
reviniente said:
CGI-Quality said:

Considering GT5 is doing pretty good in America, i don't think there's an issue with SCEA.

Anyway, a few sub 90-Meta scores hardly is indicative of "neverending parade half-baked, still born titles". It doesn't get much more narrow minded than that. Plenty of Wii & 360 titles with sub-90 Meta scores, are they "half-baked" as well?

One thing's for certain, GT5's fans are loving it. Looks like that 84 Meta (a good score to begin with) had little to no affect on the game.

Several are, yes.

Really. Which?

As far as the category of "good concept but poor excecution (half-baked)" goes, I'd put the following in here:

Homefront
Two Worlds II
Mindjack
Quantum Theory

Those come to mind at the moment.



reviniente on 17 March 2011
CGI-Quality said:
reviniente said:
CGI-Quality said:
reviniente said:

Several are, yes.

Really. Which?

As far as the category of "good concept but poor excecution (half-baked)" goes, I'd put the following in here:

Homefront
Two Worlds II
Mindjack
Quantum Theory

Those come to mind at the moment.

Exclusives, not multiplatform. In PS3's case, you didn't mention one multiplatform title. You claim that GT5 & Killzone 3 were part of the "neverending parade half-baked, still born titles". With you not mentioning one exclusive for 360 or Wii (and it does have exclusives with similar or worse metas than KZ3 & GT5), it tells me where your motives lie.

Thank you for helping my point, and confirming it's pointless discussing this with you. To end it off, fans/gamers are loving GT5 & KZ3. Time to move on from "Meta scores determine what's good or not".

Fable III and pretty much everything for Kinect. I care little for the Wii. Both are selling systems like they're bundled with crack, though. SON¥ needs to address this.



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Michael-5 on 17 March 2011

See, I never insult GT5. My comments are very different from reviniente's.

GT5 is a good game, I'm so tired of being critisized for believing it won't sell 10 million. I don't see what the big deal is.

Also my opinion on rating, I think it affects game sales, but it doesn't affect casual games much. So long as the core structure of the game is inviting, and the name is establihed, the game will sell well. Ratings only affect the games relative position with respect to other games in the franchise.

Halo Reach and GT5 I believe will sell less then Halo 3 and GT1,3,4 mainly due to ratings IMO. Still, for Halo Reach, that's still 10 million plus terretory, and for GT5, probably just under 10 million. Pretty awesome sales none-the less.

Games like Resident Evil, Lost Planet, Elder Scrolls, Fallout and Dead Rising are more strongly affected by ratings because they are still required to define themselves. All of these games are of a much smaller scope then GT and Halo, design choices can severly affect a game like this. However it's not just ratings, Fallout NV got bad ratings for being similar to Fallout 3, but Fallout 3 was such a good game, I don't think most people care, thats why the game will still sell just as well.

 

Thats my opinion, but don't include me into this debate...



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Michael-5 on 17 March 2011
CGI-Quality said:

* scratches head *

GT2 - 93 Meta score

GT4 - 89 Meta score

GT4 - 10.61mill

GT2 - 9.37mill.

Point: Meta scores mean little here.

When GT2 came out, most reviews were in print. Look at the names of the critic reviews, and look at how many reviews there are. I'm not checking, but aren't there only something like 30 reviewers for GT2, but 100 for GT4? You should look more in depth into data because what's on the surface is not always representative of the affecting causes.

Other factors that come into play are the growing video game market, the larger instal base of the PS2, the amount of competition from other consoles (PS2 was much more dominant then PS1), and other games within the console, who is giving the review, and what each game scored on the same website (I believe IGN gave both GT2 and GT4 a 9.5/10, but GT1 and GT3 (the better selling ones) a 9.8/10).

But your right that meta score means little here. GT is a largely casual game. Meta score can only be used to support the fact that GT2 and GT4 (the more poorly rated GT's onthe gen) sold less then GT1 and GT3, but that could also be because they were released later into the consoles life, or that they were the second GT game on the console.

Many many factors come into play.



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reviniente on 18 March 2011
CGI-Quality said:
reviniente said:

Fable III and pretty much everything for Kinect. I care little for the Wii. Both are selling systems like they're bundled with crack, though. SON¥ needs to address this.

Sony needs to address what? From what I've seen lately, the PS3 is selling just fine.

For the past couple of weeks, yes, but only WW. Will see if they can hang on to their lead without the Americas.



reviniente on 18 March 2011
Michael-5 said:

See, I never insult GT5. My comments are very different from reviniente's.

GT5 is a good game, I'm so tired of being critisized for believing it won't sell 10 million. I don't see what the big deal is.

Also my opinion on rating, I think it affects game sales, but it doesn't affect casual games much. So long as the core structure of the game is inviting, and the name is establihed, the game will sell well. Ratings only affect the games relative position with respect to other games in the franchise.

Halo Reach and GT5 I believe will sell less then Halo 3 and GT1,3,4 mainly due to ratings IMO. Still, for Halo Reach, that's still 10 million plus terretory, and for GT5, probably just under 10 million. Pretty awesome sales none-the less.

Games like Resident Evil, Lost Planet, Elder Scrolls, Fallout and Dead Rising are more strongly affected by ratings because they are still required to define themselves. All of these games are of a much smaller scope then GT and Halo, design choices can severly affect a game like this. However it's not just ratings, Fallout NV got bad ratings for being similar to Fallout 3, but Fallout 3 was such a good game, I don't think most people care, thats why the game will still sell just as well.

 

Thats my opinion, but don't include me into this debate...

It's an OK game. Problem is, it was supposed to be outstanding. Two years ago. It was supposed to move tons of systems, at least more than the X360. It didn't. In fact, I can't find the Holy Grail in the Top 40. What place is it in?



reviniente on 19 March 2011
CGI-Quality said:
reviniente said:

It's an OK game. Problem is, it was supposed to be outstanding. Two years ago. It was supposed to move tons of systems, at least more than the X360. It didn't. In fact, I can't find the Holy Grail in the Top 40. What place is it in?

GT5 moved systems when it was appropriate (the holidays). Insinuating that it was supposed to move consoles 4 months later shows your intentions (along with your other outlandish comments in here), rendering a discussion with you about anything PS3, pointless.

From digital-digest.com:

The figures for US sales in December 2010 are below, ranked in order of number of sales (December 2009 figures also shown, including percentage change):

  • Wii: 2,360,000  (Total: 34.2 million; December 2009: 3,810,000 – down 38%)
  • Xbox 360: 1,860,000 (Total: 25.4 million; December 2009: 1,310,000 – up 42%)
  • PS3: 1,210,000 (Total: 15.5 million; December 2009: 1,360,000 – down 11%)

NPD December 2010 Game Console US Sales Figures

http://www.digital-digest.com/blog/DVDGuy/2011/01/15/game-consoles-december-2010-npd-sales-figure-analysis/

Oooh! GT5 releases on 11.24.10 and the PS3 is down for the whole of December by 11%. Try again.