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Forums - Gaming - PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend

irstupid on 22 February 2011
radiantshadow92 said:
superchunk said:
radiantshadow92 said:
 


You don't own the network, or those keys. Sony owns that. Geohot took it, and mass distributed it. Stop acting like the big bad sony is trying to take away your precious rights. If you don't like it, don't buy their product. I am sick of hearing you people wine about how this is "one step close to companies owning what we buy". Its not, companies are not out to get us, and EVEN on the SLIM chance that Sony wants to own us, guess what, Nintendo is around the block. Thats why theres competition.Atleast, accept that geohot is an asshole who needs to pay for distrubuting those keys. 


You're simply wrong.

He did nothing to the network, just the PS3 itself.

I can find directions on how to root any Android phone. Its the same thing as him releasing the PS3 master key as all that really is, is the pw to full root access over the entire PS3. Problem is, Sony f'ed up and did something that was critically wrong as that same pw gave access to the PSN as well. That was just stupid.

The day bluray launched, actually before, they master keys to its encryption was also posted online.

These actions are not illegal. They allow you to gain full control over the product you purchased. If I want to remove Verizon's bloat from my phone, I should be allowed to. In fact, had Verizon not locked all that software in there, I wouldn't have rooted my phone in the first place.

Same reason I haven't done anything to the PS3 as there is nothing I really want to change. However, that doesn't mean I forgo the legitimate rights to do so.

At the same time, I don't attack a hacker because of piracy. I attack the pirates for that.

I could beat the shit out of my wife for not listening to me if I wanted to, but I don't because its simply wrong. Same here, I could hack my Wii/PS3 and pirate the shit out of every movie and game in existance, I don't because its simply wrong.

You all need to keep this in perspective as a very real attack on your ownership rights.


I give up, no point in arguing further. We just have different veiws on consumer rights is all =/

see thats the problem.  our views on consumer rights mean nothing.  We are stating what is legal or not, doesn't matter what your OPINION on whether you think it shoudl be legal or not is.

You have yet to show me something ILLEGAL he has done.  We have posted time and time again how telling others the key is not illegal.  this is not our opinion, but fact.

if sony wins, its not cause it was illegal, its because they changed the law or ruling to make it illegal NOW.  That is what we are scared of.  We do not want this law to be changed, it would screw us consumers out of so many rights out of our own property.  This would give companies the right to tell us what we can or acn't do with their product. 



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radiantshadow92 on 22 February 2011
irstupid said:
radiantshadow92 said:
irstupid said:
fordy said:
radiantshadow92 said:

Why should Sony, or any company for that matter have to make thier security even tighter? When none of this would have happened if Geohot wouldn't have released Sony's keys. Why does there have to be a group of hackers that hack every system and then releases it? You are just proving my point even more. Im out of this thread anyways, its a mess in here.


So if doing this stuff was purely ilegal, why are there security measures to begin with?

Your point is a complete and uter shambles, like Sony's attept for cheap security. If you don't want to be hacked, enforce the proper security methods. Everyone else in the world who cares about their property has to. The difference is, a purcahsed PS3 is NOT SONY'S PROPERTY

yea no duh, radiant is just being dumb right now

he is basically saying "why shoudl sony have to lock their doors, the crooks should not enter the house"

tell that to an insurance agent when all your stuff is stolen.  "where you doors locked?"  "no, why would i need to lock doors, its my house, people should know not to go into it"  LOL

Its a business', hell its everyones job to protect their own things.  If security is lax, it is your job to tighten it. 

There are so many countries, where people leave thier door open. The reason this whole thing started, was being people were trying to crack open the ps3 with the OS feature in the first place! So like you said, Sony was trying to tighten thier security and make sure that no one got in by removing the feature. I am just saying, this would have never happened, if people would just be content with what they purchased in the first place, and not messed with the Sony's OS/network. There no reason to say i am being dumb because i disagree with you, thats just rude.

i was saying you are being dumb for saying its not sony's job to tighten up security.

there is no way that can ever be thought of as a smart way of thinking.  obviously its sony's job to stop hackers or pirates or whatever from doing what they don't want them to do.

You may say its the police's job to stop criminals, but its still my own job to lock my own doors and keep my money safe.  I can't sit a $1000 in my mailbox and hope it to be there cause going into someone mailbox is illegal.  Pretty sure the cops will call me stupid for doing so.


I NEVER said it wasn't Sony's job to tighten up securtiy, STOP putting words in my post. I said, why should they have to tighten up security in the first place?. Why should a company, that sells a product, have to keep wasting time by updating the security of thier network, when its the consumers trying to get in in the first place? Why should they protect the consumers when they themsevles say "its our product, we can do whatever we want!"?  I believe that it was wrong of geohot to spread the hack that way, and i believe he should pay for it. If you don't, then thats fine. But putting words in my post and then calling me dumb for it is a just a dick move. Good day to yah. I gotta play some KIllzone 3.



irstupid on 22 February 2011
radiantshadow92 said:
irstupid said:
radiantshadow92 said:
irstupid said:
fordy said:
radiantshadow92 said:

Why should Sony, or any company for that matter have to make thier security even tighter? When none of this would have happened if Geohot wouldn't have released Sony's keys. Why does there have to be a group of hackers that hack every system and then releases it? You are just proving my point even more. Im out of this thread anyways, its a mess in here.


So if doing this stuff was purely ilegal, why are there security measures to begin with?

Your point is a complete and uter shambles, like Sony's attept for cheap security. If you don't want to be hacked, enforce the proper security methods. Everyone else in the world who cares about their property has to. The difference is, a purcahsed PS3 is NOT SONY'S PROPERTY

yea no duh, radiant is just being dumb right now

he is basically saying "why shoudl sony have to lock their doors, the crooks should not enter the house"

tell that to an insurance agent when all your stuff is stolen.  "where you doors locked?"  "no, why would i need to lock doors, its my house, people should know not to go into it"  LOL

Its a business', hell its everyones job to protect their own things.  If security is lax, it is your job to tighten it. 

There are so many countries, where people leave thier door open. The reason this whole thing started, was being people were trying to crack open the ps3 with the OS feature in the first place! So like you said, Sony was trying to tighten thier security and make sure that no one got in by removing the feature. I am just saying, this would have never happened, if people would just be content with what they purchased in the first place, and not messed with the Sony's OS/network. There no reason to say i am being dumb because i disagree with you, thats just rude.

i was saying you are being dumb for saying its not sony's job to tighten up security.

there is no way that can ever be thought of as a smart way of thinking.  obviously its sony's job to stop hackers or pirates or whatever from doing what they don't want them to do.

You may say its the police's job to stop criminals, but its still my own job to lock my own doors and keep my money safe.  I can't sit a $1000 in my mailbox and hope it to be there cause going into someone mailbox is illegal.  Pretty sure the cops will call me stupid for doing so.


I NEVER said it wasn't Sony's job to tighten up securtiy, STOP putting words in my post. I said, why should they have to tighten up security in the first place?. Why should a company, that sells a product, have to keep wasting time by updating the security of thier network, when its the consumers trying to get in in the first place? Why should they protect the consumers when they themsevles say "its our product, we can do whatever we want!"?  I believe that it was wrong of geohot to spread the hack that way, and i believe he should pay for it. If you don't, then thats fine. But putting words in my post and then calling me dumb for it is a just a dick move. Good day to yah. I gotta play some KIllzone 3.

it is too sony's job to protect its customers due to the psn.  the psn is like a bank.  sony just like a bank needs to keep that information safe and secure.

what geohot did was find a key that let him do stuff to HIS OWN personal machine.  STUPIDY on sony's part that same exact key also let you jump into their network. 

Its like if the bank gives you your safe deposit key.  we own that deposit box and can put wahtever we want in that box. Stupidly though that same key opens up EVERYONES safe deposit box.  That is just poor poor engineering, and their engineers should be ashamed and embarrased that they would do something so stupid.



alekth on 22 February 2011

What exactly is the story behind this having to do anything with the PSN? I've been following this stuff and there's nothing about that apart from people circumventing the version check for the login (which wouldn't be the first time this has been done at all), and that simply allows them to be on the network without upgrading to 3.56. It doesn't give you admin status on the PSN, neither allows you to do anything special. Last I heard they couldn't even sync their fake trophies.



dsister on 22 February 2011
alekth said:

What exactly is the story behind this having to do anything with the PSN? I've been following this stuff and there's nothing about that apart from people circumventing the version check for the login (which wouldn't be the first time this has been done at all), and that simply allows them to be on the network without upgrading to 3.56. It doesn't give you admin status on the PSN, neither allows you to do anything special. Last I heard they couldn't even sync their fake trophies.


One game has had a problem with cheaters

It's all satan's geohot's fault. Activision has patched the game. No one cares anymore about it. It's still Geohot's fault



Sig thanks to Saber! :D 

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fordy on 22 February 2011
radiantshadow92 said:
irstupid said:
radiantshadow92 said:
irstupid said:
fordy said:
radiantshadow92 said:

Why should Sony, or any company for that matter have to make thier security even tighter? When none of this would have happened if Geohot wouldn't have released Sony's keys. Why does there have to be a group of hackers that hack every system and then releases it? You are just proving my point even more. Im out of this thread anyways, its a mess in here.


So if doing this stuff was purely ilegal, why are there security measures to begin with?

Your point is a complete and uter shambles, like Sony's attept for cheap security. If you don't want to be hacked, enforce the proper security methods. Everyone else in the world who cares about their property has to. The difference is, a purcahsed PS3 is NOT SONY'S PROPERTY

yea no duh, radiant is just being dumb right now

he is basically saying "why shoudl sony have to lock their doors, the crooks should not enter the house"

tell that to an insurance agent when all your stuff is stolen.  "where you doors locked?"  "no, why would i need to lock doors, its my house, people should know not to go into it"  LOL

Its a business', hell its everyones job to protect their own things.  If security is lax, it is your job to tighten it. 

There are so many countries, where people leave thier door open. The reason this whole thing started, was being people were trying to crack open the ps3 with the OS feature in the first place! So like you said, Sony was trying to tighten thier security and make sure that no one got in by removing the feature. I am just saying, this would have never happened, if people would just be content with what they purchased in the first place, and not messed with the Sony's OS/network. There no reason to say i am being dumb because i disagree with you, thats just rude.

i was saying you are being dumb for saying its not sony's job to tighten up security.

there is no way that can ever be thought of as a smart way of thinking.  obviously its sony's job to stop hackers or pirates or whatever from doing what they don't want them to do.

You may say its the police's job to stop criminals, but its still my own job to lock my own doors and keep my money safe.  I can't sit a $1000 in my mailbox and hope it to be there cause going into someone mailbox is illegal.  Pretty sure the cops will call me stupid for doing so.


I NEVER said it wasn't Sony's job to tighten up securtiy, STOP putting words in my post. I said, why should they have to tighten up security in the first place?. Why should a company, that sells a product, have to keep wasting time by updating the security of thier network, when its the consumers trying to get in in the first place? Why should they protect the consumers when they themsevles say "its our product, we can do whatever we want!"?  I believe that it was wrong of geohot to spread the hack that way, and i believe he should pay for it. If you don't, then thats fine. But putting words in my post and then calling me dumb for it is a just a dick move. Good day to yah. I gotta play some KIllzone 3.

Why do companies have to keep updating security? Because attackers find new ways around things. It's laws of nature. Look at the way viruses attack the human body. How long do you think we'd last if the immune system decided not to worry about new threats anymore, and viruses continued to evolve?



alekth on 22 February 2011
dsister said:
alekth said:

What exactly is the story behind this having to do anything with the PSN? I've been following this stuff and there's nothing about that apart from people circumventing the version check for the login (which wouldn't be the first time this has been done at all), and that simply allows them to be on the network without upgrading to 3.56. It doesn't give you admin status on the PSN, neither allows you to do anything special. Last I heard they couldn't even sync their fake trophies.


One game has had a problem with cheaters

It's all satan's geohot's fault. Activision has patched the game. No one cares anymore about it. It's still Geohot's fault

Heh, wasn't that mainly an issue with godmode actually still being in the game and saves not being protected? Though I heard Socom was also having a problem, but seriously that is far from hacking the PSN and opening everyone's deposit box etc o_O.

Though at this point I think Sony should start banning, after the warnings they've been sending out it seems like a long enough grace period, I don;t know what's stopping them.



fordy on 22 February 2011
alekth said:
dsister said:
alekth said:

What exactly is the story behind this having to do anything with the PSN? I've been following this stuff and there's nothing about that apart from people circumventing the version check for the login (which wouldn't be the first time this has been done at all), and that simply allows them to be on the network without upgrading to 3.56. It doesn't give you admin status on the PSN, neither allows you to do anything special. Last I heard they couldn't even sync their fake trophies.


One game has had a problem with cheaters

It's all satan's geohot's fault. Activision has patched the game. No one cares anymore about it. It's still Geohot's fault

Heh, wasn't that mainly an issue with godmode actually still being in the game and saves not being protected? Though I heard Socom was also having a problem, but seriously that is far from hacking the PSN and opening everyone's deposit box etc o_O.

Though at this point I think Sony should start banning, after the warnings they've been sending out it seems like a long enough grace period, I don;t know what's stopping them.

People took the whole "unbanning themselves and banning others" out of proportion. PSN security has not been compromised. However, Sony needs to work towards preventing ID impersonation, which is how people were getting around the bans (and banning others, if they happened to pick the same PS3 ID as another machine). Client side identification is too risky for an online environment, and they're only now just finding that out.



Ail on 22 February 2011
fordy said:
Rpruett said:
fordy said:
Rpruett said:

The case won't come down to ownership of systems. 

It will come down to distributing sensitive materials to millions of other people and grand-standing it (and knowing full well of the potential harm it would cause Sony.  This is not modifying your own console, this is giving instructions on how to modify in a very specific deviate manner to anyone and everyone. 

He can say publicly that he doesn't condone piracy all he wants,  but at the end of the day,  with the materials he released he will have a hard time proving that stance.

 

For example,  I could know exactly how to bomb the World Trade Center and where it was the most vulnerable, Maybe I helped build the WTC and had blueprints for them.  By releasing the blueprints online,  I would still get in trouble and by extension would probably be thrown in jail especially if my actions were proven to be ill-designed.

There's a difference between safety of corporate interests and safety of the public. Having the PS3 Master Keys fall into the wrong hands isn't going to kill people...

Absolutely,  I made an extreme example to make an extreme point.  The point being is,  you would be considered an accomplice in this situation or case, especially if they can convince the judge or jury that you did this in a deviate, ill-willed manner.   If he released the PS3 Master Keys,  It's obvious what his intentions were.  Additionally,  his mannerisms even seem to point towards more ill-willed intentions specifically towards Sony.

The same situation applies to various other things in life.  For example, you possess the blueprint for the floor plan of the Smithsonian Museum in DC and the Hope Diamond is located in there. You post this online and even little details about the Smithsonian making it more accessible for Thiefs.     You very well could be convicted of a crime. 

 

Actually, no you couldn't. You really should check up on your law, because proof like that would NOT stand up in court. You'd need a ton more evidence to convict him for this, but hey newsflash, HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING LEGALLY WRONG.


he's offering for download a package called jailbreak.zip.

That package contains 3 references to SCE inside it.

Last I checked he wasn't an SCE employee or had their agreement to do so.

So it did do something wrong...

Go open his zip file with an hex viewer if you don't believe me....



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

fordy on 22 February 2011
Ail said:
fordy said:
Rpruett said:
fordy said:
Rpruett said:

The case won't come down to ownership of systems. 

It will come down to distributing sensitive materials to millions of other people and grand-standing it (and knowing full well of the potential harm it would cause Sony.  This is not modifying your own console, this is giving instructions on how to modify in a very specific deviate manner to anyone and everyone. 

He can say publicly that he doesn't condone piracy all he wants,  but at the end of the day,  with the materials he released he will have a hard time proving that stance.

 

For example,  I could know exactly how to bomb the World Trade Center and where it was the most vulnerable, Maybe I helped build the WTC and had blueprints for them.  By releasing the blueprints online,  I would still get in trouble and by extension would probably be thrown in jail especially if my actions were proven to be ill-designed.

There's a difference between safety of corporate interests and safety of the public. Having the PS3 Master Keys fall into the wrong hands isn't going to kill people...

Absolutely,  I made an extreme example to make an extreme point.  The point being is,  you would be considered an accomplice in this situation or case, especially if they can convince the judge or jury that you did this in a deviate, ill-willed manner.   If he released the PS3 Master Keys,  It's obvious what his intentions were.  Additionally,  his mannerisms even seem to point towards more ill-willed intentions specifically towards Sony.

The same situation applies to various other things in life.  For example, you possess the blueprint for the floor plan of the Smithsonian Museum in DC and the Hope Diamond is located in there. You post this online and even little details about the Smithsonian making it more accessible for Thiefs.     You very well could be convicted of a crime. 

 

Actually, no you couldn't. You really should check up on your law, because proof like that would NOT stand up in court. You'd need a ton more evidence to convict him for this, but hey newsflash, HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING LEGALLY WRONG.


he's offering for download a package called jailbreak.zip.

That package contains 3 references to SCE inside it.

Last I checked he wasn't an SCE employee or had their agreement to do so.

So it did do something wrong...

Go open his zip file with an hex viewer if you don't believe me....

So Sony own the copyrights to the character array "SCE" now? Honestly, what you get in a hex viewer is DATA. Data can NOT be Copyrighted.