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Forums - Gaming Discussion - PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend

Ail on 22 February 2011
fordy said:
Ail said:
fordy said:
Rpruett said:
fordy said:
Rpruett said:

The case won't come down to ownership of systems. 

It will come down to distributing sensitive materials to millions of other people and grand-standing it (and knowing full well of the potential harm it would cause Sony.  This is not modifying your own console, this is giving instructions on how to modify in a very specific deviate manner to anyone and everyone. 

He can say publicly that he doesn't condone piracy all he wants,  but at the end of the day,  with the materials he released he will have a hard time proving that stance.

 

For example,  I could know exactly how to bomb the World Trade Center and where it was the most vulnerable, Maybe I helped build the WTC and had blueprints for them.  By releasing the blueprints online,  I would still get in trouble and by extension would probably be thrown in jail especially if my actions were proven to be ill-designed.

There's a difference between safety of corporate interests and safety of the public. Having the PS3 Master Keys fall into the wrong hands isn't going to kill people...

Absolutely,  I made an extreme example to make an extreme point.  The point being is,  you would be considered an accomplice in this situation or case, especially if they can convince the judge or jury that you did this in a deviate, ill-willed manner.   If he released the PS3 Master Keys,  It's obvious what his intentions were.  Additionally,  his mannerisms even seem to point towards more ill-willed intentions specifically towards Sony.

The same situation applies to various other things in life.  For example, you possess the blueprint for the floor plan of the Smithsonian Museum in DC and the Hope Diamond is located in there. You post this online and even little details about the Smithsonian making it more accessible for Thiefs.     You very well could be convicted of a crime. 

 

Actually, no you couldn't. You really should check up on your law, because proof like that would NOT stand up in court. You'd need a ton more evidence to convict him for this, but hey newsflash, HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING LEGALLY WRONG.


he's offering for download a package called jailbreak.zip.

That package contains 3 references to SCE inside it.

Last I checked he wasn't an SCE employee or had their agreement to do so.

So it did do something wrong...

Go open his zip file with an hex viewer if you don't believe me....

So Sony own the copyrights to the character array "SCE" now? Honestly, what you get in a hex viewer is DATA. Data can NOT be Copyrighted.


What do you think computer software is, if not data ?



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

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alekth on 22 February 2011

There is absolutely no indication that someone was getting around bans with the console ID trick. It was mere speculation based solely on the existance of an app that let you change your ID, ignoring how difficult it is to actually obtain another valid console ID to substitute it with.

Possible ways to procure a valid console id: leak/connection at a service center where PS3s are being repaired; somebody's already hacked PS3 if they were stupid enough to install on it a program that reads and then sends the ID to the programmer; another hackable PS3 that one has access to; buying a hackable PS3, hacking it, getting ID, returning it to the shop.

How you can't procure a valid ID: get it from a random PS3 that someone is using OFW on; get it from a random PS3 that a non-idiot is using CFW on; randomly guess it.



fordy on 22 February 2011
Ail said:
fordy said:
Ail said:
fordy said:
Rpruett said:
fordy said:
Rpruett said:

The case won't come down to ownership of systems. 

It will come down to distributing sensitive materials to millions of other people and grand-standing it (and knowing full well of the potential harm it would cause Sony.  This is not modifying your own console, this is giving instructions on how to modify in a very specific deviate manner to anyone and everyone. 

He can say publicly that he doesn't condone piracy all he wants,  but at the end of the day,  with the materials he released he will have a hard time proving that stance.

 

For example,  I could know exactly how to bomb the World Trade Center and where it was the most vulnerable, Maybe I helped build the WTC and had blueprints for them.  By releasing the blueprints online,  I would still get in trouble and by extension would probably be thrown in jail especially if my actions were proven to be ill-designed.

There's a difference between safety of corporate interests and safety of the public. Having the PS3 Master Keys fall into the wrong hands isn't going to kill people...

Absolutely,  I made an extreme example to make an extreme point.  The point being is,  you would be considered an accomplice in this situation or case, especially if they can convince the judge or jury that you did this in a deviate, ill-willed manner.   If he released the PS3 Master Keys,  It's obvious what his intentions were.  Additionally,  his mannerisms even seem to point towards more ill-willed intentions specifically towards Sony.

The same situation applies to various other things in life.  For example, you possess the blueprint for the floor plan of the Smithsonian Museum in DC and the Hope Diamond is located in there. You post this online and even little details about the Smithsonian making it more accessible for Thiefs.     You very well could be convicted of a crime. 

 

Actually, no you couldn't. You really should check up on your law, because proof like that would NOT stand up in court. You'd need a ton more evidence to convict him for this, but hey newsflash, HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING LEGALLY WRONG.


he's offering for download a package called jailbreak.zip.

That package contains 3 references to SCE inside it.

Last I checked he wasn't an SCE employee or had their agreement to do so.

So it did do something wrong...

Go open his zip file with an hex viewer if you don't believe me....

So Sony own the copyrights to the character array "SCE" now? Honestly, what you get in a hex viewer is DATA. Data can NOT be Copyrighted.


What do you think computer software is, if not data ?

There is a difference between instructions and data. Even the internal cache in the CPU treats them differently. Data does not pass through as an opcode or address.



Rpruett on 22 February 2011
fordy said:
Rpruett said:
fordy said:
Rpruett said:

The case won't come down to ownership of systems. 

It will come down to distributing sensitive materials to millions of other people and grand-standing it (and knowing full well of the potential harm it would cause Sony.  This is not modifying your own console, this is giving instructions on how to modify in a very specific deviate manner to anyone and everyone. 

He can say publicly that he doesn't condone piracy all he wants,  but at the end of the day,  with the materials he released he will have a hard time proving that stance.

 

For example,  I could know exactly how to bomb the World Trade Center and where it was the most vulnerable, Maybe I helped build the WTC and had blueprints for them.  By releasing the blueprints online,  I would still get in trouble and by extension would probably be thrown in jail especially if my actions were proven to be ill-designed.

There's a difference between safety of corporate interests and safety of the public. Having the PS3 Master Keys fall into the wrong hands isn't going to kill people...

Absolutely,  I made an extreme example to make an extreme point.  The point being is,  you would be considered an accomplice in this situation or case, especially if they can convince the judge or jury that you did this in a deviate, ill-willed manner.   If he released the PS3 Master Keys,  It's obvious what his intentions were.  Additionally,  his mannerisms even seem to point towards more ill-willed intentions specifically towards Sony.

The same situation applies to various other things in life.  For example, you possess the blueprint for the floor plan of the Smithsonian Museum in DC and the Hope Diamond is located in there. You post this online and even little details about the Smithsonian making it more accessible for Thiefs.     You very well could be convicted of a crime. 

 

Actually, no you couldn't. You really should check up on your law, because proof like that would NOT stand up in court. You'd need a ton more evidence to convict him for this, but hey newsflash, HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING LEGALLY WRONG.

Actually,  yes you can. People are convicted of being accomplices all the time, which is exactly how this case will play out.   (See many Mafia members,  Masterminds of the 9/11 attacks, etc).   Osama Bin Laden never physically was involved in a Terrorist act he just had his fingerprints all over it and yet he was enemy number one.   Why is that?  He didn't actually do anything legally wrong? 

I don't have any respect for your legal credentials.   Obviously, you need evidence (You always need evidence).  What makes you think they won't find sufficient evidence?      And you have no idea if he has or hasn't done anything legally wrong, do you have access to his PC?   He could have done several things legally wrong,  just because he said he is innocent doesn't make it so.



fordy on 22 February 2011
Rpruett said:
fordy said:
Rpruett said:
fordy said:
Rpruett said:

The case won't come down to ownership of systems. 

It will come down to distributing sensitive materials to millions of other people and grand-standing it (and knowing full well of the potential harm it would cause Sony.  This is not modifying your own console, this is giving instructions on how to modify in a very specific deviate manner to anyone and everyone. 

He can say publicly that he doesn't condone piracy all he wants,  but at the end of the day,  with the materials he released he will have a hard time proving that stance.

 

For example,  I could know exactly how to bomb the World Trade Center and where it was the most vulnerable, Maybe I helped build the WTC and had blueprints for them.  By releasing the blueprints online,  I would still get in trouble and by extension would probably be thrown in jail especially if my actions were proven to be ill-designed.

There's a difference between safety of corporate interests and safety of the public. Having the PS3 Master Keys fall into the wrong hands isn't going to kill people...

Absolutely,  I made an extreme example to make an extreme point.  The point being is,  you would be considered an accomplice in this situation or case, especially if they can convince the judge or jury that you did this in a deviate, ill-willed manner.   If he released the PS3 Master Keys,  It's obvious what his intentions were.  Additionally,  his mannerisms even seem to point towards more ill-willed intentions specifically towards Sony.

The same situation applies to various other things in life.  For example, you possess the blueprint for the floor plan of the Smithsonian Museum in DC and the Hope Diamond is located in there. You post this online and even little details about the Smithsonian making it more accessible for Thiefs.     You very well could be convicted of a crime. 

 

Actually, no you couldn't. You really should check up on your law, because proof like that would NOT stand up in court. You'd need a ton more evidence to convict him for this, but hey newsflash, HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING LEGALLY WRONG.

Actually,  yes you can. People are convicted of being accomplices all the time, which is exactly how this case will play out.   (See many Mafia members,  Masterminds of the 9/11 attacks, etc).   Osama Bin Laden never physically was involved in a Terrorist act he just had his fingerprints all over it and yet he was enemy number one.   Why is that?  He didn't actually do anything legally wrong? 

I don't have any respect for your legal credentials.   Obviously, you need evidence (You always need evidence).  What makes you think they won't find sufficient evidence?      And you have no idea if he has or hasn't done anything legally wrong, do you have access to his PC?   He could have done several things legally wrong,  just because he said he is innocent doesn't make it so.


Are you seriously comparing 9/11, an attack that killed people, to a hacking attempt, which at best, the case is purely for corporate interest?

Why are all the ones defending Sony comparing it to bombings and murderings? A corporation laxed in security and somebody got hold of their key. Explain to me where the death is there.

I could refer you to the police as being an accomplice to a secret act of Corporatist movement. Do you think that would work?



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Ail on 22 February 2011
fordy said:
Ail said:

What do you think computer software is, if not data ?

There is a difference between instructions and data. Even the internal cache in the CPU treats them differently. Data does not pass through as an opcode or address.


If I'm not wrong, part of the security features of modern consoles, aside from locking the software to the console ( which is what Geo Hotz broke) is that a given console only run software licenced by its maker.

In practice everyone can break this as all you have to do is claim the software you want to run was made by Sony, there is no technical diffilculty in doing so but it's illegal to do such a thing.

I'm pretty sure one of those 3 SCE in his package is actually one such artifact.

To allow itself to install on the PS3 the jailbreak package claims it was licenced/copyrighted by SCE, which clearly it isn't....



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

fordy on 22 February 2011
Ail said:
fordy said:
Ail said:

What do you think computer software is, if not data ?

There is a difference between instructions and data. Even the internal cache in the CPU treats them differently. Data does not pass through as an opcode or address.


If I'm not wrong, part of the security features of modern consoles, aside from locking the software to the console ( which is what Geo Hotz broke) is that a given console only run software licenced by its maker.

In practice everyone can break this as all you have to do is claim the software you want to run was made by Sony, there is no technical diffilculty in doing so but it's illegal to do such a thing.

I'm pretty sure one of those 3 SCE in his package is actually one such artifact.

To allow itself to install on the PS3 the jailbreak package claims it was licenced/copyrighted by SCE, which clearly it isn't....


Wrong again.

More likely, the software checks the data file for the header name, in this case "SCE". It's not violating the security of the software. It's playing by the rules that Sony programmed in there.



Rpruett on 22 February 2011
fordy said:
Rpruett said:
fordy said:
Rpruett said:
fordy said:
Rpruett said:

The case won't come down to ownership of systems. 

It will come down to distributing sensitive materials to millions of other people and grand-standing it (and knowing full well of the potential harm it would cause Sony.  This is not modifying your own console, this is giving instructions on how to modify in a very specific deviate manner to anyone and everyone. 

He can say publicly that he doesn't condone piracy all he wants,  but at the end of the day,  with the materials he released he will have a hard time proving that stance.

 

For example,  I could know exactly how to bomb the World Trade Center and where it was the most vulnerable, Maybe I helped build the WTC and had blueprints for them.  By releasing the blueprints online,  I would still get in trouble and by extension would probably be thrown in jail especially if my actions were proven to be ill-designed.

There's a difference between safety of corporate interests and safety of the public. Having the PS3 Master Keys fall into the wrong hands isn't going to kill people...

Absolutely,  I made an extreme example to make an extreme point.  The point being is,  you would be considered an accomplice in this situation or case, especially if they can convince the judge or jury that you did this in a deviate, ill-willed manner.   If he released the PS3 Master Keys,  It's obvious what his intentions were.  Additionally,  his mannerisms even seem to point towards more ill-willed intentions specifically towards Sony.

The same situation applies to various other things in life.  For example, you possess the blueprint for the floor plan of the Smithsonian Museum in DC and the Hope Diamond is located in there. You post this online and even little details about the Smithsonian making it more accessible for Thiefs.     You very well could be convicted of a crime. 

 

Actually, no you couldn't. You really should check up on your law, because proof like that would NOT stand up in court. You'd need a ton more evidence to convict him for this, but hey newsflash, HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING LEGALLY WRONG.

Actually,  yes you can. People are convicted of being accomplices all the time, which is exactly how this case will play out.   (See many Mafia members,  Masterminds of the 9/11 attacks, etc).   Osama Bin Laden never physically was involved in a Terrorist act he just had his fingerprints all over it and yet he was enemy number one.   Why is that?  He didn't actually do anything legally wrong? 

I don't have any respect for your legal credentials.   Obviously, you need evidence (You always need evidence).  What makes you think they won't find sufficient evidence?      And you have no idea if he has or hasn't done anything legally wrong, do you have access to his PC?   He could have done several things legally wrong,  just because he said he is innocent doesn't make it so.


Are you seriously comparing 9/11, an attack that killed people, to a hacking attempt, which at best, the case is purely for corporate interest?

Why are all the ones defending Sony comparing it to bombings and murderings? A corporation laxed in security and somebody got hold of their key. Explain to me where the death is there.

I could refer you to the police as being an accomplice to a secret act of Corporatist movement. Do you think that would work?


Stop being a simpleton or intentionally obtuse.  Obviously this is in no way as severe or comparable to a human life.  However,  if you are going to argue that 'Accomplices' don't get in trouble you are clearly mistaken.   This case will come down whether or not he can be tied to causing piracy or spear heading it.

It's not about death, it's about someone being tied to a crime that they knowingly participated in from afar and that is what the case will continue to revolve around.



fordy on 22 February 2011
Rpruett said:
fordy said:
Rpruett said:
fordy said:
Rpruett said:
fordy said:
Rpruett said:

The case won't come down to ownership of systems. 

It will come down to distributing sensitive materials to millions of other people and grand-standing it (and knowing full well of the potential harm it would cause Sony.  This is not modifying your own console, this is giving instructions on how to modify in a very specific deviate manner to anyone and everyone. 

He can say publicly that he doesn't condone piracy all he wants,  but at the end of the day,  with the materials he released he will have a hard time proving that stance.

 

For example,  I could know exactly how to bomb the World Trade Center and where it was the most vulnerable, Maybe I helped build the WTC and had blueprints for them.  By releasing the blueprints online,  I would still get in trouble and by extension would probably be thrown in jail especially if my actions were proven to be ill-designed.

There's a difference between safety of corporate interests and safety of the public. Having the PS3 Master Keys fall into the wrong hands isn't going to kill people...

Absolutely,  I made an extreme example to make an extreme point.  The point being is,  you would be considered an accomplice in this situation or case, especially if they can convince the judge or jury that you did this in a deviate, ill-willed manner.   If he released the PS3 Master Keys,  It's obvious what his intentions were.  Additionally,  his mannerisms even seem to point towards more ill-willed intentions specifically towards Sony.

The same situation applies to various other things in life.  For example, you possess the blueprint for the floor plan of the Smithsonian Museum in DC and the Hope Diamond is located in there. You post this online and even little details about the Smithsonian making it more accessible for Thiefs.     You very well could be convicted of a crime. 

 

Actually, no you couldn't. You really should check up on your law, because proof like that would NOT stand up in court. You'd need a ton more evidence to convict him for this, but hey newsflash, HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING LEGALLY WRONG.

Actually,  yes you can. People are convicted of being accomplices all the time, which is exactly how this case will play out.   (See many Mafia members,  Masterminds of the 9/11 attacks, etc).   Osama Bin Laden never physically was involved in a Terrorist act he just had his fingerprints all over it and yet he was enemy number one.   Why is that?  He didn't actually do anything legally wrong? 

I don't have any respect for your legal credentials.   Obviously, you need evidence (You always need evidence).  What makes you think they won't find sufficient evidence?      And you have no idea if he has or hasn't done anything legally wrong, do you have access to his PC?   He could have done several things legally wrong,  just because he said he is innocent doesn't make it so.


Are you seriously comparing 9/11, an attack that killed people, to a hacking attempt, which at best, the case is purely for corporate interest?

Why are all the ones defending Sony comparing it to bombings and murderings? A corporation laxed in security and somebody got hold of their key. Explain to me where the death is there.

I could refer you to the police as being an accomplice to a secret act of Corporatist movement. Do you think that would work?


Stop being a simpleton or intentionally obtuse.  Obviously this is in no way as severe or comparable to a human life.  However,  if you are going to argue that 'Accomplices' don't get in trouble you are clearly mistaken.   This case will come down whether or not he can be tied to causing piracy or spear heading it.

It's not about death, it's about someone being tied to a crime that they knowingly participated in from afar and that is what the case will continue to revolve around.

And the crime is.....posting a number!

It's how the attackers use that number themselves. A number cannot be copyrighted, keep in mind.

Honestly, you're clutching at straws here. 100% of the crime is done AFTER Geohot's posting of the key. If a friend of yours wanted to punch up another guy and asked you for his address, and you gave it to him, you can NOT be called an accomplice there.



fordy on 22 February 2011
KylieDog said:
superchunk said:
KylieDog said:
superchunk said:

While I get irritated at what his hacking has allowed on the PS3 and overall Pirating in general, I am 100% behind him in this battle.

When you purchase any product, that product is yours. If you choose to set it on fire you can. If you choose to paint it pink with yellow dots, you can. If you choose to completely re-purpose the product via its software, you fucking can. Its yours.

Its the same argument I have against the smart phone industry. I shouldn't have to break my warranty by rooting my Android phone just to remove all the horrible bloat ware Verizon pushes on the device. The company has a right to preinstall whatever the fuck they want, but I should not be forced to use it and have every right to remove it so I can have the device operate the way I want it to. If I go buy a Dell PC and take it home, I can relatively easily remove any preinstalled software. However, I can't on my phone?

For some reason companies have moved into a setup where they think they have the legal right to force their consumers to use a device only the way they decide. That's BS and that's why I support Geohot is this court case.

I want this precedent set so we the consumer will actually own our products again.


You are one of the people that do not even understand what he has done wrong.

Enlighten me on what he did unlawfully or morally wrong.

He hacked his personal belongings for his stated purpose to personalize it with what he wants on it.


What he has done is the same as if he bought a movie on DVD.  That DVD is his to do what he wants with it but the film on the DVD does not belong to him is belongs to the makers, so when he starts posting the film for everyone to see he screwed up.  This is no different.


I wish people could get their facts straight.

A movie is an artwork. Artwork can be copyrighted.

A master key is a binary INTEGER. Integers cannot be copyrighted.