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Forums - Gaming Discussion - PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend

MaxwellGT2000 on 22 February 2011
Ail said:
irstupid said:
Spankey said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Spankey said:

modding the PS3 console itself is at best warranty voiding.

The problem is that people are not separating the console hardware (which the purchaser owns) from the OS software on the console (which Sony owns)

modding one's fine (if you're willing to void the warranty) but modding the other and telling others how to do it is another thing which the courts will decide on.

does Sony's legal team also have a fund i can donate to? I know who'd I'd rather give my money to.

Sony has a responsibility to protect the interests of its shareholders. GeoHot & crew have a responsibility to...?


Your argument steps into the field is it okay to modify your operating systems, if you go by PCs then yes, if you go by consoles of old, then yes to that as well, what makes the PS3 so special and different from these cases?  If you own the console you own the console and have the right to make your own OS or run an OS someone made on it.  But I feel this debate is rather silly, modding was never an issue till this gen... for whatever reason >_>

Geohot has a history of opening up technology to be more consumer friendly and no that doesn't mean being able to pirate, but having things like the iPhone where it wasn't restricted to only AT&T, with this crack for the PS3 you can make your own Linux on it again and on top of that it's renergized the PS3 linux community.  

Just my two cents


it would have been interesting if GeoHot had found a way to completelely remove the OS from the PS3 - leave it utterly blank - unable to play PS3 games and free of PSN in otherwords - and have the ability to run a completely different OS (maybe a yellow dog variant or some other Linux or some such) instead of offering a method to modify Sony's software.

but isn't that what the US Navy and other reasearch organisations have legally done?

if sony wins this, then what the us navy and other research organizations have and are doing would then become illegal


Actually nope, because those organizations are running Linux.

Besides Sony does not prevent you from installing your own OS, they object to you modifying THEIR software, which they have a right to...

If you find a way to install your own OS on the PS3 without messing up with Sony's software at all, you would be in your own right...

By the way while redistributing those CFWS, Geo Hotz is actually redistributing some of Sony's software ( because he didn't rewrite the whole FW from scratch), which last I checked was not legal in the software world........

Sony's firmware isn't a freeware...

If I was on Sony's legal team that is where I would attack because in that area there are some legal precedents preventing an individual or a corporation from redistributing another's corporation software without their consent...


You'd have a good case there if that OS was being sold, as it is, since it's not sold there's technically no monitary damages being done... on the otherhand if you're distributing your own Windows OS and it's still using Windows as a base... and since Windows is an OS being sold for profit by MS they have the right to claim damages for that... ya feeling me?



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

Around the Network
fordy on 22 February 2011
Ail said:

And in the end Sony is a business so they will push back that cost to users ( they could decide to charge for PSN for example if keeping it cheater free is too much of a hassle..).


I'll say it again. Anyone who figured only client-side security on a multiuser online environment was a good idea has something wrong in the head.



Ail on 22 February 2011
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Ail said:
irstupid said:
Spankey said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Spankey said:

modding the PS3 console itself is at best warranty voiding.

The problem is that people are not separating the console hardware (which the purchaser owns) from the OS software on the console (which Sony owns)

modding one's fine (if you're willing to void the warranty) but modding the other and telling others how to do it is another thing which the courts will decide on.

does Sony's legal team also have a fund i can donate to? I know who'd I'd rather give my money to.

Sony has a responsibility to protect the interests of its shareholders. GeoHot & crew have a responsibility to...?


Your argument steps into the field is it okay to modify your operating systems, if you go by PCs then yes, if you go by consoles of old, then yes to that as well, what makes the PS3 so special and different from these cases?  If you own the console you own the console and have the right to make your own OS or run an OS someone made on it.  But I feel this debate is rather silly, modding was never an issue till this gen... for whatever reason >_>

Geohot has a history of opening up technology to be more consumer friendly and no that doesn't mean being able to pirate, but having things like the iPhone where it wasn't restricted to only AT&T, with this crack for the PS3 you can make your own Linux on it again and on top of that it's renergized the PS3 linux community.  

Just my two cents


it would have been interesting if GeoHot had found a way to completelely remove the OS from the PS3 - leave it utterly blank - unable to play PS3 games and free of PSN in otherwords - and have the ability to run a completely different OS (maybe a yellow dog variant or some other Linux or some such) instead of offering a method to modify Sony's software.

but isn't that what the US Navy and other reasearch organisations have legally done?

if sony wins this, then what the us navy and other research organizations have and are doing would then become illegal


Actually nope, because those organizations are running Linux.

Besides Sony does not prevent you from installing your own OS, they object to you modifying THEIR software, which they have a right to...

If you find a way to install your own OS on the PS3 without messing up with Sony's software at all, you would be in your own right...

By the way while redistributing those CFWS, Geo Hotz is actually redistributing some of Sony's software ( because he didn't rewrite the whole FW from scratch), which last I checked was not legal in the software world........

Sony's firmware isn't a freeware...

If I was on Sony's legal team that is where I would attack because in that area there are some legal precedents preventing an individual or a corporation from redistributing another's corporation software without their consent...


You'd have a good case there if that OS was being sold, as it is, since it's not sold there's technically no monitary damages being done... on the otherhand if you're distributing your own Windows OS and it's still using Windows as a base... and since Windows is an OS being sold for profit by MS they have the right to claim damages for that... ya feeling me?

Actually I'm pretty sure that even if it isn't being sold you can not redistribute software like that. Because software is Intellectual property.

Do you know for example that you can not include someone's else freeware in software you write without their consent ? ( most freeware come with such explicit consent, but not all of it, and there is definitly non consent by Sony in having others third parties to redistribute some or part of its software).



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

irstupid on 22 February 2011
Ail said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Ail said:
irstupid said:
Spankey said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Spankey said:

modding the PS3 console itself is at best warranty voiding.

The problem is that people are not separating the console hardware (which the purchaser owns) from the OS software on the console (which Sony owns)

modding one's fine (if you're willing to void the warranty) but modding the other and telling others how to do it is another thing which the courts will decide on.

does Sony's legal team also have a fund i can donate to? I know who'd I'd rather give my money to.

Sony has a responsibility to protect the interests of its shareholders. GeoHot & crew have a responsibility to...?


Your argument steps into the field is it okay to modify your operating systems, if you go by PCs then yes, if you go by consoles of old, then yes to that as well, what makes the PS3 so special and different from these cases?  If you own the console you own the console and have the right to make your own OS or run an OS someone made on it.  But I feel this debate is rather silly, modding was never an issue till this gen... for whatever reason >_>

Geohot has a history of opening up technology to be more consumer friendly and no that doesn't mean being able to pirate, but having things like the iPhone where it wasn't restricted to only AT&T, with this crack for the PS3 you can make your own Linux on it again and on top of that it's renergized the PS3 linux community.  

Just my two cents


it would have been interesting if GeoHot had found a way to completelely remove the OS from the PS3 - leave it utterly blank - unable to play PS3 games and free of PSN in otherwords - and have the ability to run a completely different OS (maybe a yellow dog variant or some other Linux or some such) instead of offering a method to modify Sony's software.

but isn't that what the US Navy and other reasearch organisations have legally done?

if sony wins this, then what the us navy and other research organizations have and are doing would then become illegal


Actually nope, because those organizations are running Linux.

Besides Sony does not prevent you from installing your own OS, they object to you modifying THEIR software, which they have a right to...

If you find a way to install your own OS on the PS3 without messing up with Sony's software at all, you would be in your own right...

By the way while redistributing those CFWS, Geo Hotz is actually redistributing some of Sony's software ( because he didn't rewrite the whole FW from scratch), which last I checked was not legal in the software world........

Sony's firmware isn't a freeware...

If I was on Sony's legal team that is where I would attack because in that area there are some legal precedents preventing an individual or a corporation from redistributing another's corporation software without their consent...


You'd have a good case there if that OS was being sold, as it is, since it's not sold there's technically no monitary damages being done... on the otherhand if you're distributing your own Windows OS and it's still using Windows as a base... and since Windows is an OS being sold for profit by MS they have the right to claim damages for that... ya feeling me?

Actually I'm pretty sure that even if it isn't being sold you can not redistribute software like that. Because software is Intellectual property.

Do you know for example that you can not include someone's else freeware in software you write without their consent ? ( most freeware come with such explicit consent, but not all of it, and there is definitly non consent by Sony in having others third parties to redistribute some or part of its software).

is he redistributing free software?

no he is not, you have to have a ps3 to use this code.  so you already bought the software.  thsi code just lets you mod the software, which you bought



MaxwellGT2000 on 22 February 2011
irstupid said:
Ail said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Ail said:
irstupid said:
Spankey said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Spankey said:

modding the PS3 console itself is at best warranty voiding.

The problem is that people are not separating the console hardware (which the purchaser owns) from the OS software on the console (which Sony owns)

modding one's fine (if you're willing to void the warranty) but modding the other and telling others how to do it is another thing which the courts will decide on.

does Sony's legal team also have a fund i can donate to? I know who'd I'd rather give my money to.

Sony has a responsibility to protect the interests of its shareholders. GeoHot & crew have a responsibility to...?


Your argument steps into the field is it okay to modify your operating systems, if you go by PCs then yes, if you go by consoles of old, then yes to that as well, what makes the PS3 so special and different from these cases?  If you own the console you own the console and have the right to make your own OS or run an OS someone made on it.  But I feel this debate is rather silly, modding was never an issue till this gen... for whatever reason >_>

Geohot has a history of opening up technology to be more consumer friendly and no that doesn't mean being able to pirate, but having things like the iPhone where it wasn't restricted to only AT&T, with this crack for the PS3 you can make your own Linux on it again and on top of that it's renergized the PS3 linux community.  

Just my two cents


it would have been interesting if GeoHot had found a way to completelely remove the OS from the PS3 - leave it utterly blank - unable to play PS3 games and free of PSN in otherwords - and have the ability to run a completely different OS (maybe a yellow dog variant or some other Linux or some such) instead of offering a method to modify Sony's software.

but isn't that what the US Navy and other reasearch organisations have legally done?

if sony wins this, then what the us navy and other research organizations have and are doing would then become illegal


Actually nope, because those organizations are running Linux.

Besides Sony does not prevent you from installing your own OS, they object to you modifying THEIR software, which they have a right to...

If you find a way to install your own OS on the PS3 without messing up with Sony's software at all, you would be in your own right...

By the way while redistributing those CFWS, Geo Hotz is actually redistributing some of Sony's software ( because he didn't rewrite the whole FW from scratch), which last I checked was not legal in the software world........

Sony's firmware isn't a freeware...

If I was on Sony's legal team that is where I would attack because in that area there are some legal precedents preventing an individual or a corporation from redistributing another's corporation software without their consent...


You'd have a good case there if that OS was being sold, as it is, since it's not sold there's technically no monitary damages being done... on the otherhand if you're distributing your own Windows OS and it's still using Windows as a base... and since Windows is an OS being sold for profit by MS they have the right to claim damages for that... ya feeling me?

Actually I'm pretty sure that even if it isn't being sold you can not redistribute software like that. Because software is Intellectual property.

Do you know for example that you can not include someone's else freeware in software you write without their consent ? ( most freeware come with such explicit consent, but not all of it, and there is definitly non consent by Sony in having others third parties to redistribute some or part of its software).

is he redistributing free software?

no he is not, you have to have a ps3 to use this code.  so you already bought the software.  thsi code just lets you mod the software, which you bought


Exactamundo couldn't have said it better myself.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

Around the Network
hehey on 22 February 2011
irstupid said:
superchunk said:
hehey said:
 

Well, mr attoerney, explain to me how the big bad corporations are screwing over this time... no fairy tales like that other guy please.


Because all you people against geohot in this lawsuit are being ignorant of the actual case and its ramifications.

I have been very vocal about anti-piracy, but that is not what this is about. Its about who owns a product you purchase.

Does Sony still one the PS3 once you laid out your $300plus for it? or do you?

If geohot wins, then the status quo stands and the purchaser fully owns all rights to the product they purchased.

If Sony wins, then a precedent is set where ANY company can then force the end user to use or not use any product in a way that the company sees fit.

Imagine not being able to put custom paint or rims on your car, because Ford doesn't want their image associated with that style.

Imagine Dell revoking your PC because you installed a virus protection that wasn't Mcafee because that is who they have a special deal with.

Imagine Sony making a clause that their TVs will only work with other Sony products, i.e. dvd/bluray players.

This is all feasible and lawful if Sony wins. It gives the manufacturer complete control after purchase.

This is why I stand with geohot. Not because his work enabled piracy, that I loathe. But because when I spend hundreds of dollars on a product, I have the full right to do whatever the fuck I want with it within the boundries of the law.

An example I keep using is my Android phone. If I want to root it and remove all the Verizon bloatware, I have every damn right to. If Sony wins, I could be sued for personalizing my product.

here i'll save the trouble for all you out there that won't be able to respond to this post

 

but, but, but pirates.... steal $60 game, bad.  Sony good.

You shouldve waited cause thats a stupid answer.

My reply is that this guy is exagerating to the nth degree, seriously, "you wont be able to paint your rims how you wnat", get out of here. It doesbnt mean any of that stuff. oh bohoo we wont be able to hack playstation products, its not exactly the apocalypse, hell, a wolrd where people arent hacking in the video game industry consoles is better.



Ail on 22 February 2011
irstupid said:
Ail said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Ail said:
irstupid said:
Spankey said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Spankey said:

modding the PS3 console itself is at best warranty voiding.

The problem is that people are not separating the console hardware (which the purchaser owns) from the OS software on the console (which Sony owns)

modding one's fine (if you're willing to void the warranty) but modding the other and telling others how to do it is another thing which the courts will decide on.

does Sony's legal team also have a fund i can donate to? I know who'd I'd rather give my money to.

Sony has a responsibility to protect the interests of its shareholders. GeoHot & crew have a responsibility to...?


Your argument steps into the field is it okay to modify your operating systems, if you go by PCs then yes, if you go by consoles of old, then yes to that as well, what makes the PS3 so special and different from these cases?  If you own the console you own the console and have the right to make your own OS or run an OS someone made on it.  But I feel this debate is rather silly, modding was never an issue till this gen... for whatever reason >_>

Geohot has a history of opening up technology to be more consumer friendly and no that doesn't mean being able to pirate, but having things like the iPhone where it wasn't restricted to only AT&T, with this crack for the PS3 you can make your own Linux on it again and on top of that it's renergized the PS3 linux community.  

Just my two cents


it would have been interesting if GeoHot had found a way to completelely remove the OS from the PS3 - leave it utterly blank - unable to play PS3 games and free of PSN in otherwords - and have the ability to run a completely different OS (maybe a yellow dog variant or some other Linux or some such) instead of offering a method to modify Sony's software.

but isn't that what the US Navy and other reasearch organisations have legally done?

if sony wins this, then what the us navy and other research organizations have and are doing would then become illegal


Actually nope, because those organizations are running Linux.

Besides Sony does not prevent you from installing your own OS, they object to you modifying THEIR software, which they have a right to...

If you find a way to install your own OS on the PS3 without messing up with Sony's software at all, you would be in your own right...

By the way while redistributing those CFWS, Geo Hotz is actually redistributing some of Sony's software ( because he didn't rewrite the whole FW from scratch), which last I checked was not legal in the software world........

Sony's firmware isn't a freeware...

If I was on Sony's legal team that is where I would attack because in that area there are some legal precedents preventing an individual or a corporation from redistributing another's corporation software without their consent...


You'd have a good case there if that OS was being sold, as it is, since it's not sold there's technically no monitary damages being done... on the otherhand if you're distributing your own Windows OS and it's still using Windows as a base... and since Windows is an OS being sold for profit by MS they have the right to claim damages for that... ya feeling me?

Actually I'm pretty sure that even if it isn't being sold you can not redistribute software like that. Because software is Intellectual property.

Do you know for example that you can not include someone's else freeware in software you write without their consent ? ( most freeware come with such explicit consent, but not all of it, and there is definitly non consent by Sony in having others third parties to redistribute some or part of its software).

is he redistributing free software?

no he is not, you have to have a ps3 to use this code.  so you already bought the software.  thsi code just lets you mod the software, which you bought


his code most definitly include some of Sony's stuff.

It's kinda funny when you look at the binary you even find several time SCE mentioned inside it.

Why the heck should that be inside a package redistributed by a third party non Sony ?

The first 5 bytes of the package are actually SCEUF and SCE is found 2 more times inside the package.

If I get more time I will look into it with an hex viewer to see what he's doing...



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

hunter_alien on 22 February 2011
SleepWaking said:
Porcupine_I said:

so he got the $50 vor his cousin Vinnie, the laywer? great!


What kind of response is this???


The kind that made me spit coke all over my keyboard ^_^

 

OT: well, then lets see now how all will end



Vote the Mayor for Mayor!

Ail on 22 February 2011
fordy said:
Ail said:

And in the end Sony is a business so they will push back that cost to users ( they could decide to charge for PSN for example if keeping it cheater free is too much of a hassle..).


I'll say it again. Anyone who figured only client-side security on a multiuser online environment was a good idea has something wrong in the head.


They didn't really have a choice 5 years ago.

Heck as soon as any single player gamer requires an internet connection you can see the uproar of all the a little kiddies that go on vacations on desert island and can't play their games there.

I doubt next gen will follow the same pattern.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if the main difference between this gen and next gen are the security features on the consoles instead of a huge hardware upgrade.

And despite all the bitching and moaning the majority of customers there days have gotten used to purchasing an Ipad for example and only running software they download from the AppStore...

And in an era where even TV starts to require internet connections, there will be some bitching and moaning but the silent majority won't care at all..



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Spankey on 22 February 2011
MaxwellGT2000 said:
irstupid said:
 

is he redistributing free software?

no he is not, you have to have a ps3 to use this code.  so you already bought the software.  thsi code just lets you mod the software, which you bought


Exactamundo couldn't have said it better myself.

again, i'm not so sure. They have not bought the software, only a copy of it.

here's an analogy (hooray! another!) someone goes to a bookshop and buys a copy of Stephen King's The Shining.

All well and good, but then he rewrites the first paragraph, accurately translates the rest of the book to Klingon then publishes it on the Internet as his own work and gives instructions on how he did it all without getting the go-ahead from Mr. King.

The owner here owns the pages, the ink used and the cover of the book, but does not own the content (the actual  words, story and ideas). sure, if he wants to take out a pen and scribble in what he thinks is a better line or blank out some profanity, go for it. But whether he can go and publish his modified book in a way that makes the bookstore think it's actually been modified by SK himself (and tells others how to fool the bookstore so they can do similar things)  is a matter for the courts to decide.

This analogy is a bit flawed for the following reasons though:

a) Stephen King would probably have a good laugh about it

b) a book does not play games or access the PSN



Proud Sony Rear Admiral