Oh, so you were saying that Agent and Zelda could have bigger launches, but Gears 3 launch will be unaffected? I don't think Agent will be bigger then Gears, at least not as an exclusive. It would have to sell as well as GTA to outsell Gears.

That removes host advantage all together. Perfect.

ZELDA is a nintendo game and has a totally different fanbase and AGENT is a PS3 game which has its own different base.all three games are from different genres and the systems have different fanbases so it won't effect.

the only effect that would be seen would be from AGENT to anything.Gears won't effect as there have already been 2 gears games this generation so people who didn't buy gears first mostly won't buy it this time.Zelda AND NINTENDO fanbase it totally different so nothing there.as for AGENT,a new ip and a rockstar game and few big exlcusives that sony will try to take in more people to play it.

how can't AGENT be bigger than gears,gears 1 and 2 only did 6m after such a long time on market.

o'm not saying that it will definetly be bigger than gears.

i was just pointing out to the past SONY exclusives and Rockstar games sales.

Well first of all, Gears 1 and 2 sold 6 million, and a lot of people believe both could have sold better if they had been polished more. Gears 1 multiplayer was added very late into development and almost not included, and thus it was pretty glitchy, and Gears 2 had substantial multiplayer issues. Gears of War 3 has a 3 year development time instead of 2 years, so it may be the polishs Gears fans have always wanted.

So Gears 3 should sell at least 6 million, probably more.

Thats a lot! GTA IV only sold 8.37 million and 7.15 million copes on the 360 and PS3 respectively. Agent is exclusive, but GTA is what the Rockstar Empire is based on. Agent will not be as big as GTA, not even close, simple as that. Red Dead Redemption was a huge commercial success and combined it only sold 7 million. As a single console exclusive, even if it's as successful as Red Dead, I just can't see it selling more then 4 million units.

Not all of Rockstars games are massive sellers you know? L.A. Noire probably won't sell much more then 1 million on the 360 or PS3. Max Payne on the PS2 only just broke 3 million, and I think thats going to be bigger then Agent, only 1 Midnight Club title broke 2 million, Bully only just broke 1 million on the 360, and Red Dead Revolver only sold 500k.

Sorry bud, but I don't know why your putting Agent so high up as a software seller. Uncharted 3 is probably going to be PS3's best seller of 2011, and realistically, even though this might be the best selling Uncharted, it's going to fall short of Gears of War sales.

"a lot of people believe both could have sold better if they had been polished more."

whattttttttttttttttttttttttt

that can be said with every game but quality doesn't equal sales and gears of war is one of the most polished franchise.

every thing can be improved.

gears multiplayers was alrite,the glitches were there but players got the full experience

its not like you spend more time and gears will outsell halo(just an example to show sales just don't spike just like that)

i agree and believe it too that gears will sell 6m copies or more.i'm not against it as i know it will sell that well.

gta 4 sold less as it was released in the infancy of the generation and it wasn't like the PS2 era when consoles were cheap and people would just go and pickup a console for a game cause they were so cheap.PS3 was out of bounds for alot of GTA fans that time and 360 too had a high price plus XBOX brand was small that time.

Still that game broke records

Rockstar empire is based on GTA but they have produced many big games and sony did pick out GTA when it blew onto the PS2 scene.

Red Dead was a new franchise,had bad publicity cause of delays,had an unknown prequel red dead revolver and was nowhere near advertised as big games are

AGENT looks interesting just by its logo and its description,plus its exclusive which draws alot of attention and will be showcased at E3 for exposure big time and alot of advertising.

it will do 4m easily,no doubt atall.

and if it turns out to be GTA ENgland then you already know what is going to be the outcome

people said the same about RED DEAD as you are saying about LA NOIRE.

MAX PAYNE did 3m but that was a good figure that time for games as there were so many games and not all games sold big numbers the way they are doing this generation

if AGENT lands Uncharted will not be the highest PS3 seller for sure.

Rockstar isn't just giving sony the exlcusive just like that,they want good sales and they would expect AGENT to marketed the hell out and promoted as the main thing on PS3 this year.

When I say "If Gears were more polished" I mean if they had more time for testing and removed glitches. In Gears 1 Host has a clear advantage, and people "crab walk" all time time. You could also leave the map via some glitches so some games just never ended. In Gears 2 host has a smaller advantage, but it's still there, and crab walking and leaving maps is still a problem. The only big difference is that ranked matches were now made in random rooms so there was no team stacking.

Gears of War 2 could have easily broken 7 million if they incorporated host-migration. Too many games have dropped because the host quit, and host migration was present in games like CoD and Halo for a long time before this games.

As for Red Dead, considering that it runs off the GTA Engine (Havok engine right?), I knew it would do well from the start. I'm not a fan of westerns, but I knew this game would at least get 5 million combined.

As for Agent, I don't think there is any chance this game will sell 6 million or more units. All thats out so far is a title and a description. Remember, other then Gran Turismo 5, the only PS3 exclusive to break 5 million is MGS4, and it only just passed 5 million now.

Agent could do 4 million, a lot of quality PS3 games are getting 4 million now (Uncharted 2, LBP, and FF XIII), but anything above that, on the PS3, don't think so. Software just doesn't sell that well on the PS3, the audience is too diverse.

And I think your giving this game too much credit. The star game of PS3's lineup is Uncharted 3. Agent may be awesome, but an unknow title from Rockstar won't just come in and outsell Sony's star performer. Also I can't picture Rockstar making Agent their best game after GTA. I think it will be more of a niche game.

As for L.A. Noire, I really doubt either console version will get over 3 million. Look at the American Pre-Orders, they are low, and the game is suppose to be like Heavy Rain, which only sold 1.5 million.

Still your entitled to your opinion, so I can't say your wrong. It's opinion. We won't know who is right until at earliest 2012.

BTW, I think Gears 3 has a shot for 7 million. What do you think?

i agree there were problems but it isn't like just becaus ea game has this feature the game will sell well.

the people who liked or felt like buying it,bought it.they experienced the glitches.

now those people who were never going to buy it never knew about these things.

its like saying killzone adds a feature and it will outsell COD or Forza adds a feature,it will outsell GT.its not going to happen.

"As for Red Dead, considering that it runs off the GTA Engine (Havok engine right?), I knew it would do well from the start."

i really don't get the meaning out of it,just because it ran on RAGE engine it isn't supposed to sell well just because of that

your comparisions really don't work.

why are you comparing MGS4 sales when MGS games have always sold in the 5m range.

Uncharted 2 even though not a mega-franhise sold 4m and will do alot more.LBP which again a new ip with small name and had not that great initial sales went on to do 4m.FF13 even without any advertising did 4m and you don't think AGENT will do more than them even when AGENT will have the main spotlight,advertsing and push plus Rockstar North and Houser brothers name on it..

i never said ROCKSTAR would make AGENT their top game.you take things out of context and add alot of offtopic stiff,please stop doing that.

and how the hell is Uncharted the STAR performer?

Uncharted is big but nowhere near the bigwigs.

and unknown title that is great and interesting can come in and outsell alot of things.

again please stop making comparisions like Heavy rain and la noire.

La noire should sell around 2m each on both platforms.

"Look at the American Pre-Orders, they are low,"

how many games have had small pre-orders and went onto sell big time,alot of them.

i too think gears has a shot at 7m but i am doubting because of some factors like:

COD being the biggest thing now.

Halo going against COD didn't do through the roof numbers which it would have done without COD.

360 diversifying its userbase with casual crowd.

My point about Gears isn't as extreme as Killzone. I think Gears 3 could break 7 million because it's had 50% more time in development. Thats a completly reasonable belief.

My point about Red Dead was that it sold well because it was based off GTA. It's essentially a Western GTA. Everyone who has ever tried to convince me to get this game has told me "Western GTA." Thats why it sold. No none GTA games made by Rockstar have ever sold too strongly. Max Payne was the next best, and I don't see how you assume it will be bigger then that.

My comparision with MGS5 is that not many PS3 exclusives break 5 million, and the only ones that have were well established old franchises.

Uncharted 2 even though not a mega-franhise sold 4m and will do alot more.LBP which again a new ip with small name and had not that great initial sales went on to do 4m.FF13 even without any advertising did 4m and you don't think AGENT will do more than them even when AGENT will have the main spotlight,advertsing and push plus Rockstar North and Houser brothers name on it..

Uncharted 2 got ratings of 9.5-9.8, and was largely seen as the first "must have" PS3 game. It was released just after the PS3 Slim, and esentially marked the turning point when PS3 started to get more polished games then the 360. It was also based on a 2 million selling franchise at the time. LBP was a new IP in 2008, it's 2011 now, the market is different, new IP's don't attach as well. Mod Nation Racers, InFamous, Heavy Rain, all 9/10 PS3 exclusive new IP's which sold under 2 million. Final Fantasy XIII sold 2 million (40% attach rate!) in Japan, and it's based of probably the most established JRPG franchise.

So no I don't think Agent will sell better then that. How do you know Agent will be heavily advertized? Bully had the Rockstar name on it and it only sold 800k on the PS3. You can't assume Agent will be some mega franchise. It could sell 5 million, but I highly doubt any more that that and for all we know at E3 this game will go multiplatform like FFXIII did.

If Agent sells over 5 million it will be Sony's best selling exclusive title. Thats not out of context, and I just don't see that happening. Uncharted 3 is the PS3 Star performer because it's their best selling franchise after GT, has a high rating history, and it's become their primary holiday game. Killzone and LBP2 are spring titles, and Resistance, TM, and The Last Guardian just wont be as big.

"Look at the American Pre-Orders, they are low,"

how many games have had small pre-orders and went onto sell big time,alot of them.

Other then Wii games, the only game that comes to mind here is Uncharted 2. Could you name me some other games with weak pre-orders selling extremely well?

As for Gears 3, I think it could break 7 million. Good point about CoD, but Gears of War is a very different game, hopefully CoD won't affect Gears sales too much. Looking at Pre-Orders, Gears 3 is seeing very very strong numbers, so I'm hopful as Gears and Mass Effect are my favorite current gen franchises.

first of all please mate cut down on writing,its way too much for reading and replyig to.

i too agree that gears 3 could break 7m but not because its development time was more as you think but because its a big franchise and epic games make good games.if they spend more time,it is gonna improve the game but only for people who are already buying the game not for people who are not going to buy it.

Red dead wasn't based on GTA.it was just sandbox game which are pelnty.CRACKDOWN,INFAMOUS,SAINTS ROW didn't sell well just because they are open like GTA.yeah it resembles GTA but that doesn't mean it is GTA.It stood cause it was a good game and rockstar backed it and had their name on it.max payne was sold well for its time.

MGS is an old franhsie but it has always sold around the same as MGS4 did so why even bring it to the debate.

Uncharted 2 got high scores and was popular but still isn't anywhere near the ff,halo,GT,COD,etc like games

"It was released just after the PS3 Slim, and esentially marked the turning point when PS3 started to get more polished games then the 360."

what???????????

PS3 always had more polished games.all PS3 games before PS3 SLIM took long development time,had top review scores and were most polished games out there.they just didn't sell that well.actually 360 games were the ones that weren't polished as much as PS3 games but still sold big time.

about FF13,again don't compare it as we know how much hate and controversy was behind that game.

BULLY was an exclusive and a rockstar game but it really wasn't made to be a big game.why i think AGENT will be big is because SONYdidn't do anything in the earlier part of this generation and only started coming back sometime back.it will be one of their few big exclsuives and a rockstar one with their great partnership in the past and they want something big for PS3 for it to standout.

"E3 this game will go multiplatform like FFXIII did."

we can all throw comments like that and keep assuming whatever we want to.

i can tell you one thing for sure if that was to happen then GTA5 will be exclusive to PS3 as AGENT was a exchange deal fro GTA4 exclusivity back in 2008

"If Agent sells over 5 million it will be Sony's best selling exclusive title."

i really don't understand you comments.GT5 is already over that mark so AGENT won't be the highest selling exclsuive by just doing 5m.

and i really don't understand how you think UNCHARTED is the PS3 STAR game.yeah it is an awesome game.but when you look at it it doesn't standout like FINAL FANTASY OR GT OR GTA OR HALO.it is more comparable to GEARS.

"Other then Wii games, the only game that comes to mind here is Uncharted 2."

LBP,HEAVY RAIN,INFAMOUS,FORZA.

yeah they didn't sell super big but they did far better than what their pre-orders were

GEARS is a very different game but its userbase does match with COD userbase.And about GEARS pre-orders,they aren't actually correct.Gears 3 pre-orders started growing at the end of last year cause its release was first planned for April but then they changed the date but the pre-orders of before remained the same and weren't compensated for.VGC doesn't track cancelled pre-orders which would have happened alot cause people don't normally pre-order games an year in advance.

I'll try to cut down on writing, I'm not great at summarizing points.

Red Dead used the exact same engine as GTA IV. It was a good game because it was a Western version of GTA. I don't think the same should be expected for Agent. If could outsell Read Dead's PS3 version, but not Red Dead combined sales, thus not be a better selling game then Gears.

3 million on the PS2 is nothing special. FF and GTA's on the PS2 sold much much more, and well almost every franchise sold better on PS2. If Rockstars next best was 3 million, and then everything else was below 2, you shouldn't expect Agent to do better.

I highlight expect because I don't deny that it could break 5 million, I would just be very surprised, and I think you should only assume 1-2 million at this point.

MGS4 was an example that you need an old franchise in order for a PS3 exclusive to break 5 million. no new PS3 IP has broken 5 million.

Crackdown and others are not GTA, nor use the GTA engine. Read Dead did use the GTA engine, so it's no longer a mock off, thus it sells better.

For games being polished - 2006 PS3 just launched, all it had was Resistance. 2007, 360 had Halo, Bioshock, FM2, PGR4, and Mass Effect, PS3 had Uncharted, Heavenly Sword, Lair and Folklore. Uncharted 1 didn't even have multiplayer, nor were the graphics as good as many 360 games, Lair was broken and glitchy, Heavenly Sword was 3-4 hours again with no replay, and Folklore was meh. 2008 okay PS3 started building up, Resistance 2, and MGS4 but 360 had Gears 2, Fable 2, and Lost Odyssey. In 2009 PS3 had InFamous, Uncharted 2, and Killzone 2, which isn't too much, but 360 had a weak year with mainly just Forza 3, Halo ODST and Wars, and I think only in 2008/2009 did PS3 multiplatformers started looking as good as 360 versions, but even now they still don't look any better.

So not to insult the PS3, it's a great system, and it's 2011 lineup is better then 360, but I think prior to fall 2009 360 had undoubtedly the better games. A lot of them ended up timed exclusive then, but I think 2009 was the year when attention shifted to PS3, and it was the first year the PS3 outsold the 360.

I said "For all we know at E3 this game will go multiplatform like FFXIII did" Do not exclude the "For all we know" as those two statements are very different and have different implications. Don't twist what I have to say.

I'm only saying you shouldn't expect the best case scenario for this game. It could break 5 million, but it almost certainly won't break 7 million on a single platform. It can also more likely break 2-3 million, and it may go multiplatform. Sony doesn't buy their exclusives like MS does, it's not part of publishing, and Rockstar has no reason not to make this game multiplatform. It's a very real possibility.

Agent could still go the way of Bully.

Rockstar can break contracts, all they would lose with Sony is some $$$ Capcom signed a contract with Nintendo to produce 5 exclusive games for the Wii, and only delivered on two. RE4 later was released on the PS2 anyway. Rockstar also signed a contract for GTA IV Episodes to be exclusive for 50 million, and found a way around that. Agent may go multiplatform, but thats besides the point. I'm only trying to show you thats it's unreasonable to expect the game to sell 5 million as a PS3 exclusive, when no gameplay footage has even been shown about this game.

"If Agent sells over 5 million it will be Sony's best selling exclusive title."

i really don't understand you comments.GT5 is already over that mark so AGENT won't be the highest selling exclsuive by just doing 5m.

and i really don't understand how you think UNCHARTED is the PS3 STAR game.yeah it is an awesome game.but when you look at it it doesn't standout like FINAL FANTASY OR GT OR GTA OR HALO.it is more comparable to GEARS.

For 2011, Agent would be the best selling exclusive PS3 title, above Uncharted 3, LBP2, Killzone 3, and others. For 2011, Uncharted 3 is PS3's Star Performer. When did we stop talking about 2011?

"Other then Wii games, the only game that comes to mind here is Uncharted 2."

LBP,HEAVY RAIN,INFAMOUS,FORZA.

Heavy Rain and InFamous sold under 2 million, and did not push many consoles. Forza 3 naturally only broke 3-3.5 million, the rest is bundling and it's a genre that doesn't experience headstrong sales like FPS's. LBP is the other exception, but thats likely due to the broad audience and non-headstrong sales, like GT. Killzone 3 won't push consoles, not when it's released the week of Marvel vs. Capcom 3, and BulletStorm, which have equal pre-orders.

As for Gears Pre-Orders, I know about the delay from April- November, but it still adds 7-8k weekly, and it's still 10 months from launch. Only 7 games saw more pre-orders, and they all come out in the next 2 months. Killzone 3 added 12k pre-orders 1 month from launch. Gears is looking to be a much much bigger game, and will likely push significatly more consoles then Killzone 3, but Uncharted 3 will come close.

Sorry it's still long