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Forums - Sales - Is Epic Mickey a lesson to third parties?

jarrod said:

Mario Kart's a pure arcade racer, end of story.  It does place an emphasis on weaponry and combat, but that in itself doesn't make it a "party game", just as it doesn't for Blur, Wipeout, Road Rash or any other combat/weapons based racer.  Just as the emphasis on co-op and utter lack of real horror doesn't make RE5 a "party game".  Anyone trying to redefine Mario Kart as anything but chiefly a racing game at it's core pretty clearly hasn't spent much time with either Mario Kart or racing games in general (or they're just trolling as usual).  The whole point and structure of the game is rooted in racing and those mechanics, and even the combat component is ultimately just a means to support that... you "win" when you "win" the race, quite literally that makes it a racing game.  

Honestly, vehicle based arena games like Twisted Metal or Vigilante 8 are probably more along the lines of "party game" than Mario Kart is.  Unless someone has only ever played the battle mode subgame (which has sucked hard post-MK64 anyway) I can't even fathom how anyone who's ever touched Mario Kart could think it's not about winning the race.  Perhaps those claiming "party game" cut put forward some actual reasoning as to that for a change?


Car combat games are a genre in of itself... I guess with Mario Karts battle mode it technically fits under that genre as well.  Anyway I agree with this post, racing games are about just that, winning a race, if your game is all about winning a race, then yes it's a racing game, and it's just as cut n' dry as that...



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

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How about....it's a high quality Mickey Mouse game thats on a Nintendo console. I ever get a Wii I'm buying it.



S.T.A.G.E. said:

How about....it's a high quality Mickey Mouse game thats on a Nintendo console. I ever get a Wii I'm buying it.


It was also well promoted and well funded, which is something 3rd parties seemingly forget about with their Wii releases all too often.

Epic Mickey really had all the right things going for it (brand, developer, budget, promotion, etc), but I think it needed that to do as well as it has.  I'd say it's also pretty much only the 2nd time in Wii's entire lifecycle that a 3rd party game has hit perfectly on all those significant factors (MH3 was the first, DQX will probably be the last), which is ultimately a shame.



jarrod said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

How about....it's a high quality Mickey Mouse game thats on a Nintendo console. I ever get a Wii I'm buying it.


It was also well promoted and well funded, which is something 3rd parties seemingly forget about with their Wii releases all too often.

Epic Mickey really had all the right things going for it (brand, developer, budget, promotion, etc), but I think it needed that to do as well as it has.  I'd say it's also pretty much only the 2nd time in Wii's entire lifecycle that a 3rd party game has hit perfectly on all those significant factors (MH3 was the first, DQX will probably be the last), which is ultimately a shame.

The problem ( not really a problem), there is a better formula to sell more on the Wii without spending so much. 



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11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
psrock said:
jarrod said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

How about....it's a high quality Mickey Mouse game thats on a Nintendo console. I ever get a Wii I'm buying it.


It was also well promoted and well funded, which is something 3rd parties seemingly forget about with their Wii releases all too often.

Epic Mickey really had all the right things going for it (brand, developer, budget, promotion, etc), but I think it needed that to do as well as it has.  I'd say it's also pretty much only the 2nd time in Wii's entire lifecycle that a 3rd party game has hit perfectly on all those significant factors (MH3 was the first, DQX will probably be the last), which is ultimately a shame.

The problem ( not really a problem), there is a better formula to sell more on the Wii without spending so much. 


So that formula is fine on PS3 and 360 since there is no easy and simple formula like Wii?  Why can't you have both?



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

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psrock said:

 The problem ( not really a problem), there is a better formula to sell more on the Wii without spending so much. 

 

I'd say other formulas are actually riskier though, given their rate of success are invaraibly lower.  Particularly for traditional "gaming" brands/genres, the low-buget, low-promotion, often outsourced, spinoff or experimental new IP route pretty clearly hasn't reaped much reward for most.  The other option seems to be "lowest common denominator" casualware, which is incredibly hit or miss.

For high budget, high talent, high brand "core" games, there's a 100% success track record on Wii.  Too bad it's such a rarity, lots of missed opportunities this generation...



jarrod said:

psrock said:

 The problem ( not really a problem), there is a better formula to sell more on the Wii without spending so much. 

 

I'd say other formulas are actually riskier though, given their rate of success are invaraibly lower.  Particularly for traditional "gaming" brands/genres, the low-buget, low-promotion, often outsourced, spinoff or experimental new IP route pretty clearly hasn't reaped much reward for most.  The other option seems to be "lowest common denominator" casualware, which is incredibly hit or miss.

For high budget, high talent, high brand "core" games, there's a 100% success track record on Wii.  Too bad it's such a rarity, lots of missed opportunities this generation...


Hell even non promoted titles of the "core" nature with enough quality and polish can do well just by word of mouth alone... Look at Okami Wii outselling the PS2 version which is pretty rare for a rerelease...



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

MaxwellGT2000 said:
psrock said:
jarrod said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

How about....it's a high quality Mickey Mouse game thats on a Nintendo console. I ever get a Wii I'm buying it.


It was also well promoted and well funded, which is something 3rd parties seemingly forget about with their Wii releases all too often.

Epic Mickey really had all the right things going for it (brand, developer, budget, promotion, etc), but I think it needed that to do as well as it has.  I'd say it's also pretty much only the 2nd time in Wii's entire lifecycle that a 3rd party game has hit perfectly on all those significant factors (MH3 was the first, DQX will probably be the last), which is ultimately a shame.

The problem ( not really a problem), there is a better formula to sell more on the Wii without spending so much. 


So that formula is fine on PS3 and 360 since there is no easy and simple formula like Wii?  Why can't you have both?

I expect that formla to also work on Kinect as its userbase grows. The thing is you have to spend to be very successful on the HD, but you don't have to in the Wii as much. 



 Next Gen 

11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
jarrod said:

psrock said:

 The problem ( not really a problem), there is a better formula to sell more on the Wii without spending so much. 

 

I'd say other formulas are actually riskier though, given their rate of success are invaraibly lower.  Particularly for traditional "gaming" brands/genres, the low-buget, low-promotion, often outsourced, spinoff or experimental new IP route pretty clearly hasn't reaped much reward for most.  The other option seems to be "lowest common denominator" casualware, which is incredibly hit or miss.

For high budget, high talent, high brand "core" games, there's a 100% success track record on Wii.  Too bad it's such a rarity, lots of missed opportunities this generation...


Now which high brand games would you compare Epic Mickey to on the HD consoles?



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11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
psrock said:

I expect that formla to also work on Kinect as its userbase grows. The thing is you have to spend to be very successful on the HD, but you don't have to in the Wii as much. 

I'm not so sure if you have to as it is that's really the only avenue being tried for the most part.  And it's success rate is pretty hit or miss on HD (much like casualware on Wii and likely soon Kinect).

Kinect is a lurch to the casual, but I'm not sure a similar approach wouldn't have worked earlier on HD.  Hell, I think you can argue Rock Band and Guitar Hero made similar (in effect, but not scale) inroads with casual or non traditional gamers on HD.  LEGO too to an extent.  Even Netflix did it too, or Blu-ray, or Torne in Japan.