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Forums - Sales Discussion - Is Epic Mickey a lesson to third parties?

MaxwellGT2000 on 16 January 2011

Double Post



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

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psrock on 16 January 2011
MaxwellGT2000 said:
psrock said:
SuperAdrianK said:

What is the lesson to be learn here, people?


T 


Yeah totally promoted on the Wii right?  It's still lacking a major mode IE local and it lacks some content... not really making excuses for Black Ops Wii but it's kinda like you build up the FPS base on 360 and later on PS3... a FPS base isn't going to magically appear on the Wii over night and still FPS games on Wii sell last gen numbers for a solid FPS, but if you want an FPS base you need to build it up and it's best to strike early in a consoles life.  

And Epic Mickey isn't a family game, its not cute at all, it's not dancing, and well it's not a game based around just being fun like your Mario titles... So where does this game fit in your predictability of the Wii market?

Basically all I see is a game that's solid and promoted decently well does get sales on the console, it's really hard to name one title that doesn't fit within that... and I can read 90% of the peoples minds, Madworld sold well so get over it, The Conduit wasn't decent in singleplayer, niches will like it IE me since I like conspiracy theories but even I had to have google open while playing the game to get some references they made, online which was the great part of the game ended up ruined within months, a game with good single and multi with local multi to boot IE GoldenEye has proven a good FPS will sell.

And one last thing while I'm at it, why is reaching sales of a statistical anomaly like CoD or Halo the new standard bar for being a core title success?  It's never happened before and third parties were actually doing a lot better business wise in past gens... imagine that...

You have many many times said the reason COD don't sell as well on the Wii is because they don't put the effort on it as the other consoles and they don't release it at the same time. Now, as far I am concern, only the 360 is ever advertised with this game. I haven't seen a commercial in America with PS3 ever. 

And the last part is quite simple : It's a Mickey Mouse game where he paints. 

Yes, COD sales on the Wii are fine as they sell as much as they can just like Epic mickey would never have sold 1.3million on the PS3 as that's not the fanbase. 

The biggest lesson to me has to be learned by Sony: How the hell LBP2, mOVE heroes get release after Christmas is just the biggest blunders of many they have made this Generation. 



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psrock on 16 January 2011
RolStoppable said:
psrock said:

Maybe i am wrong, but how many times have you guys posted that Wii sells more third games than the HD systems. 

The issue is some third party have not supported the Wii because they don't make the games Wii sells well. I don't blame them as they have plenty of other options. It's not like the Wii gets no games, it has the most games anyway. 

See, that's the issue. The Wii sells a lot of third party games, but it also gets by far the most games. This means that the average sales per title are quite low. Big hits for third parties are rare and that on a userbase that now exceeds 80 million units. If the Wii was as predictable as you said, then we should be looking at different results, unless of course a) or b) apply.

You Blame third party,  I blame Nintendo as these third can never compete with Nintendo's own games while they are top dog on the HD consoles, and get help from both Sony and MS. 



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MaxwellGT2000 on 16 January 2011
psrock said:

You have many many times said the reason COD don't sell as well on the Wii is because they don't put the effort on it as the other consoles and they don't release it at the same time. Now, as far I am concern, only the 360 is ever advertised with this game. I haven't seen a commercial in America with PS3 ever. 

And the last part is quite simple : It's a Mickey Mouse game where he paints. 

Yes, COD sales on the Wii are fine as they sell as much as they can just like Epic mickey would never have sold 1.3million on the PS3 as that's not the fanbase. 

The biggest lesson to me has to be learned by Sony: How the hell LBP2, mOVE heroes get release after Christmas is just the biggest blunders of many they have made this Generation. 


I really haven't commented on CoD Wii sales a lot other than to say it hasn't had the base from the start and it sells well while being in line with CoD sales on consoles last gen. I'm very consistent with that view and it hasn't changed.  CoD4 last year was just that though 2 years after the original... it's like oh shit the GotY version of Batman AA doesn't sell as much as the original release... people already played it...

That doesn't fit your simplistic view on way to success on Wii since it doesn't fit your categories which is what I was commenting on.  You could say Mickey Mouse is an IP recognized as safe for the whole family but it really isn't a family title as it's the artsy fartsy Mickey game.  Kinda like Fantasia the game wasn't a family Mickey Mouse game it was a hardcore platformer, family Mickey Mouse games are those made in recent years like on Gamecube which has seen a downfall in sales and popularity.  

My criteria for a "family" title is not only family friendly but something you sit in a circle/take turns and play with your family, like Mario platformers, but singleplayer platformers are generally just meant to be played by yourself.

And I agree those titles not being released in their pretty bare holiday line up was a mistake... live and learn I guess...



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

psrock on 16 January 2011
RolStoppable said:
psrock said:

You Blame third party,  I blame Nintendo as these third can never compete with Nintendo's own games while they are top dog on the HD consoles, and get help from both Sony and MS. 

Well yes, I would put the blame on third parties. After all, they are the ones who make their games. Or do you blame, for example, Sony for EA's rubbish The Orange Box port? The PS3 might be hard to program for, but if other developers can handle it just fine, then the fault doesn't really lie with Sony. Or does it?

I blame both Sony ( for being stupid) and EA (for being lazy) and wanting a quick buck. There is no excuse for making your hardware hard to code for, that's just dumb. 

If Nintendo wanted certain games, they can get them, they sit on plenty of cash. They sat in Japan and watch a 500k console get exclusives after exclusives in their own country and did nothing. The only reason they even got MH3 is because the PS3 was just too expensive to support back then. Nintendo failed the Wii with third party support Gen. 



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psrock on 16 January 2011
Soriku said:
psrock said:

You Blame third party,  I blame Nintendo as these third can never compete with Nintendo's own games while they are top dog on the HD consoles, and get help from both Sony and MS. 


Nintendo is in a totally different league from Sony/MS and third parties, that's why third parties can't compete with them. And why is that a problem? Is there something that says that third parties absolutely have to compete with first parties? Because even though Epic Mickey is selling a lot now, it still won't match up to Nintendo's highest selling games, yet EM is still very successful. The whole "third parties can't compete with Nintendo" thing makes no sense, I'm not sure why it's brought up so often.

Also, Nintendo doesn't help/cooperate with third parties? MH3, DQ X, Tales of Graces, The Last Story, Samurai Warriors 3, Epic Mickey even...

Sony/MS getting a lot of third party support (mostly Western. The large majority of their top 10 selling games are Western.) has nothing to do with Sony/MS helping third parties, just the demographics. I see a lot of shooters in their top 10s for example...

Are you seriously saying the Wii gets great support in Japan from third parties?



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NoirSon on 16 January 2011

Most publishers are playing it safe not investing in the Wii because they don't know when the bubble will burst.

 

That being said, it is techincally Nintendo's fault, they usually dictate the pace of their own consoles and with them releasing and selling Wii fits, parties and reviving the 2D platformer (poor Klonoa was once again ahead of his time) on the Wii the third parties mainly just try to follow suit.



psrock on 16 January 2011
Soriku said:
psrock said:
Soriku said:
psrock said:

You Blame third party,  I blame Nintendo as these third can never compete with Nintendo's own games while they are top dog on the HD consoles, and get help from both Sony and MS. 


Nintendo is in a totally different league from Sony/MS and third parties, that's why third parties can't compete with them. And why is that a problem? Is there something that says that third parties absolutely have to compete with first parties? Because even though Epic Mickey is selling a lot now, it still won't match up to Nintendo's highest selling games, yet EM is still very successful. The whole "third parties can't compete with Nintendo" thing makes no sense, I'm not sure why it's brought up so often.

Also, Nintendo doesn't help/cooperate with third parties? MH3, DQ X, Tales of Graces, The Last Story, Samurai Warriors 3, Epic Mickey even...

Sony/MS getting a lot of third party support (mostly Western. The large majority of their top 10 selling games are Western.) has nothing to do with Sony/MS helping third parties, just the demographics. I see a lot of shooters in their top 10s for example...

Are you seriously saying the Wii gets great support in Japan from third parties?


Uh...

Where did I say that?

Also, you have nothing else to comment on the rest of my post?

I agree with the Nintendo is a diiferent league part with third party/Sony/MS, and it should stay that way. 

COD is the biggest franchise right now, it gets release yearly, you will see it in the top a lot for the HD consoles just like Mario for the Wii.

To me the Wii is the same everywhere, its top ten is loaded with Nntendo games only, while the HD consoles are mixed with both side. Having MH and and DQ is just not enough for a console that leads in sales of both software and hardware. It's hard for me to blame all the developers, Nintendo has to share the blame too as they made the Wii and promoted it as what it is. 



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Mummelmann on 16 January 2011

The lesson could also be that this is a 3rd party title that really hit home with the Wii userbase, which seem to be different from the HD userbase (which is why porting/making the same games on the Wii as the two others might net you next to nothing imo). Its about reading and pleasing a demographic.



Antabus on 16 January 2011
RolStoppable said:
psrock said:
SuperAdrianK said:

What is the lesson to be learn here, people?

The biggest third party game in the world was release on the Wii in November, it was not a mediocre version, it was release at the same time. It sold over 18 million to date, yet the Wii version probably has not sold a million yet. 

There is no lesson to learn as the Wii very predictable on what will sell or not sell. You want success on the Wii, do a family oriented game, something cute, dancing, fun games. And third party has been doing that too. 

You realize that you sound just as crazy as I do? If the Wii market is so very predictable as you say, then what are the only two options why third parties haven't found more success on the platform in all those years?

a) Stupidity.

b) Deliberate sabotage.

Although these two things aren't mutually exclusive, there's definitely a combination of these two factors at work.

Too bad that they have found a lot of success on wii:

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/7707/mario-ampamp-sonic-at-the-olympic-games/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/40053/just-dance/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/45671/just-dance-2/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/7337/guitar-hero-iii-legends-of-rock/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/12477/lego-star-wars-the-complete-saga/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/7221/carnival-games/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/31661/mario-ampamp-sonic-at-the-olympic-winter-games/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/28824/ea-sports-active/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/23198/guitar-hero-world-tour/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/2104/sonic-and-the-secret-rings/

 

That is just the top 10 selling 3rd party games. That makes a nice 43m sold games, which is quite a success. If you take a look at those titles and compare them to top 10 selling 3rd party games on HD consoles, you can see that 3rd parties aren't stupid or trying to sabotage Nintendo. They just know their audience.